Post-Game Talk: Staaaaaaalllll wins it in OT (Mod warning post #260)

[azcanuck]

The issue is that he did not see the ice for the last 10 minutes and OT.. despite playing better hockey than Danault and being infinitely better in the face-off dot.

I thought that was the thing.. KK couldn't play C in big moments until he improved his face-offs.. now what is it?

Not sure what game your watching but Danault is much better in all three zones. Notice McDavid's lack of production last couple against us. That's a lot of Danault.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Development is not a linear proposition. His game is so much better this year and I expect a lot of growth with KK. That lanky body will fill out and he will get so much better.
Interesting Staal at age 20 had 100 points.

Agreed. I like what I have seen with KK in the last playoffs and this season. His puck possession time is gaining momentum as he gets stronger and more confident. He is our best shot at a puck possession beast at center... someone who can take the puck from our end to the offensive end and also deal with physicality.

I think KK's development path is solid but I don't expect a monster break out year until he is 22/23+. Because that's when I feel he fills into this body more

 

[Mrb1p]

What about winning some PO games?

How about winning PO games with Kotkaniemi playing the role he was playing all year ? Instead of with him on the fourth line being a passenger ?

 

[azcanuck]

Skill is less in the AHL but still there with some players. Time and space and physical players that skate well is probably close to the same. This is Caufield's biggest challenge... Time/Space/Bigger and Faster Players.

Caufield needs to look at Gaudreau's game. Not the same exactly but skating is the key. He needs to play at a high tempo and his skating needs to be elite level. If he can be an elite level skater, he's going to create that time and space he needs which is key to his game. He's not going muscle his way out of trouble.

How do you become an elite skater when your not?

I keep reading the Gaudreau comparison and that's not Caufield. (same with Kyle Connor comparison).And that's why I say a small guy like Cole without the elite speed will require a longer adjustment period. He has a great hockey brain and of course the shot. But it's going to take time to figure it out. and I think he will. In Montreal's environment the danger is the fans all overreacting when he starts out slowly.

 

[azcanuck]

Agreed. I like what I have seen with KK in the last playoffs and this season. His puck possession time is gaining momentum as he gets stronger and more confident. He is our best shot at a puck possession beast at center... someone who can take the puck from our end to the offensive end and also deal with physicality.

I think KK's development path is solid but I don't expect a monster break out year until he is 22/23+. Because that's when I feel he fills into this body more

100 percent agree, good analysis. He doesnt have great speed and that doesnt matter. But you have to have a strong body to shield and buy time when you have the game KK has. He's got an elite hockey brain and will be a good playmaker when he gets stronger and can buy time and shield players. For whatever reason nature gave him the lanky type body that takes time to grow into. (might be a Finnish thing, my parents are from Finland and I was 6'4 170 as a 18 year old and got to 210 at 23). We've all seen the growth the past couple of years. Love his future outlook.

 

[Habs Halifax]

100 percent agree, good analysis. He doesnt have great speed and that doesnt matter. But you have to have a strong body to shield and buy time when you have the game KK has. He's got an elite hockey brain and will be a good playmaker when he gets stronger and can buy time and shield players. For whatever reason nature gave him the lanky type body that takes time to grow into. (might be a Finnish thing, my parents are from Finland and I was 6'4 170 as a 18 year old and got to 210 at 23). We've all seen the growth the past couple of years. Love his future outlook.

Too many fans are looking at point production and not looking at the gains he is making with his skating and puck possession. KK's potential and development is noticeable this season.

 

[azcanuck]

Too many fans are looking at point production and not looking at the gains he is making with his skating and puck possession. KK's potential and development is noticeable this season.

He is getting better and I actually dont like him being moved to the wing. Quit screwing with the kid. Let him develop at his position. It's a failure to see the forest through the trees.

 

[ottawa]

Go peek the Oilers board, don't troll, but man we get in their head. McDavid and Drai can't do shit against us.

Damn, didn't realize he was struggling to score on us

McDavid has 2 points vs the habs in 5 games. In comparison...
15pts in 7 games vs flames
16 pts in 6 games vs sens
13 pts in 6 games vs jets
8 pts in 5 games vs canucks
10 pts in 9 games vs Leafs

Draisaitl has 2 points vs the habs in 5 games as well...and in comparison...
10 pts in 7 games vs flames
17 pts in 7 games vs sens
7 pts in 6 games vs jets
10 pts in 5 games vs canucks
11 pts in 9 games vs Leafs

 

[Hins77]

The AHL is a lower skill league, obvious since the NHL is the big show, but as such, developing prospects and those not good enough for the NHL play there. There tends to be more head hunters and cheap shot artists in the AHL simply because they aren't good enough for the NHL and I guess they need to do whatever to keep their jobs.

There are skilled players in the A of course, but the best and the most developed are in the NHL. Therefore, for higher end prospects, or more talented players (who really need seasoning to reach their ceiling), they have less talent to play with in the AHL. Using Caufield as a potential, he might have trouble scoring not because he isn't good enough to beat AHL goaltending, but because the players around him don't get the puck to him. On the flip side, this may help him develop the ability to generate his own offense, but he'd probably have an easier time scoring in the NHL, even though goaltending and defensive systems are better.

The most important thing imo. He will need to produce in the AHL if he wants to remain to be considered an A prospect. I mean. I heard Andre savard, former GM. If a player isnt able to contribute offensively in the AHL. He will never do it in the nhl. Espacially a small guy like caufield. This is the most difficult things to do, produce. In fact, I don’t have a doubt to see Caufield producing in the AHL. Like you said. His linemates arent the best,, but the goalie, the d Corp and the defensive system on the other side is not the best too. The case of Ryan Poehling was concerning before the beggining of the season. Now we could have a bottom 6 winger

 

[salbutera]

Damn, didn't realize he was struggling to score on us

McDavid has 2 points vs the habs in 5 games. In comparison...
15pts in 7 games vs flames
16 pts in 6 games vs sens
13 pts in 6 games vs jets
8 pts in 5 games vs canucks
10 pts in 9 games vs Leafs

Draisaitl has 2 points vs the habs in 5 games as well...and in comparison...
10 pts in 7 games vs flames
17 pts in 7 games vs sens
7 pts in 6 games vs jets
10 pts in 5 games vs canucks
11 pts in 9 games vs Leafs

So are Marner, Matthews and Jets big guys. Other than Cgy & Sens, Habs have dominated 5-on-5 vs Leafs, Jets and Edm - their wins have been driven by pre Dom Dom era success on plenty of PP opportunities and 3-on-3 OT

 

[tazsub3]

Not sure what game your watching but Danault is much better in all three zones. Notice McDavid's lack of production last couple against us. That's a lot of Danault.

Many dont watch, just complain for the sake of complaining.
never more flagrant then then when byron shadowed and shut down mcdavid in ot last night and some complained he on the ice.
All i can say, last night was the first time in ages the habs dominated an ot. And that is due to a great young coach we have.
But again some cant see he is a winner and good coach and can only see language and assume he there cause of that.
Fraude and and idiot before him, where a joke of coaches, but now finally we have a good one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Many dont watch, just complain for the sake of complaining.
never more flagrant then then when byron shadowed and shut down mcdavid in ot last night and some complained he on the ice.
All i can say, last night was the first time in ages the habs dominated an ot. And that is due to a great young coach we have.
But again some cant see he is a winner and good coach and can only see language and assume he there cause of that.
Fraude and and idiot before him, where a joke of coaches, but now finally we have a good one.

Agreed. What I like is how Julien got the core to think 200' game and he constantly drove it down their throats. Now Ducharme is taking that baton and tinkering with being more flexible and altering some things here and there to his style. I never hated Julien but his 200' game and defense first approach got old.

The beauty of this is players can take the best parts from what Julien taught them and what Ducharme has to offer moving forward.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Because all those players were moved to the wing for a certain goal and for very sensible reasons.

They all had either better centers ahead of them, they all were established top 6 centers who were allowed to flourish and because it was for a very short period of time, often just shifts.

The plan for Kotkaniemi isn't that, its just because he's the easiest to move, because seemingly, he won't say anything and he'll go about his day, he's a 20 years old kid. He is not a reigning art ross winner.

This is a false equivalence

No, it's not. Suzuki started his career 4th line RW. Danault 4th line LW.

ROR was put on the wing not because Duchene was a better center than he was -- Duchene absolutely is not -- but because Duchene couldn't win a board battle to save his life.

Strome is NYR 2nd line center & is almost PPG, but has spent a lot of his career on wing too.

Stutzle is playing wing for Sens & is expected to be a center.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'd rather he play wing in top 9 than center on 4th. It's better for the team too to stack top 3 lines.

KK will be fine. Have some faith in him for gawd's sake.

 

[salbutera]

Many dont watch, just complain for the sake of complaining.
never more flagrant then then when byron shadowed and shut down mcdavid in ot last night and some complained he on the ice.
All i can say, last night was the first time in ages the habs dominated an ot. And that is due to a great young coach we have.
But again some cant see he is a winner and good coach and can only see language and assume he there cause of that.
Fraude and and idiot before him, where a joke of coaches, but now finally we have a good one.

I agree w everything but bolded - this is not a personal or malicious thing.

The issue IMHO is Habs fans are soooo desperate for that star quality player, that perspective is easily lost and to be honest we’re not talking STL fans who are renowned for patience even for their beloved Cardinals

Every game is not game 7 of the Cup finals, nor is every shift...the season is a marathon not a sprint even a condensed season like this one.

KKs been given lots of 5-on-5 responsibility by Dom Dom and again last night he had 2nd most 5-on-5 TOI only to the new guy, who the coach wanted to put in different situations to see what he had at his disposal going fwd. On two separate occasions Habs blew PP opportunities after a handful of seconds, by getting penalized. KK would’ve been easily over 15TOI had PP time been available.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Having sustained a plethora of fractures over the years,they have all mended fine with minimal to no residual impact to date, keep you posted. However to which degree of severity he has been subjected,can't say. I can say that the soft tissue: cartilage,tendon,ligaments,etc damage has had a more profound impact much more than the fractures.

I had a number of injuries that started to show in my 30s, I know their careers are over in their 40s, but i can attest that there are a lot more aches and pains than 30s...nevermind my 20s. Broke a finger badly in my teens and that sucker has never fully healed. A few of my other injuries span the pain spectrum. Finger is effecting my dexterity though. Lets just say i can open a pickle jar, but i have problems with produce bags. Covid makes it worse because i cant lick my fingers to open them.

 

[Big Lurk]

Poor KK. RIP. Not sure how he will get over this. His career is done I think.

Hard drugs and prostitutes are his next stop...
Please get the boy some help!!!!!

 

[Habs Icing]

Do you think KK's development is done? Cause he's a 3C quality right now today at age 20.

Not a very good one. Danault is a 3rd line center and KK is not at Danault's level right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not a very good one. Danault is a 3rd line center and KK is not at Danault's level right now.

Danault is a middle 6 center and KK is a 3rd line center quality. We disagree. You are way too low on KK as a 20 year old.

 

[angry pirate]

The issue is that he did not see the ice for the last 10 minutes and OT

I just don't see it as that big of an issue. We have a new player trying to get up to speed on our systems, already playing with a shorter bench, against 2 of the best players in the league; Both of whom played significant minutes late and into overtime.

infinitely better in the face-off dot.

Infinitely might be a bit strong considering KK took 4 faceoffs last night against what I'm assuming was mediocre competition. Pretty sure he wasn't taking many faceoffs against McDavid and Drai but I could be mistaken.

I thought that was the thing.. KK couldn't play C in big moments until he improved his face-offs.. now what is it?

Obviously he still hasn't earned the complete respect of the coaching staff in the faceoff dot. Or they just didn't want him up against McDavid or Drai. Or they just didn't want to double shift anyone late in the game because of the Gallagher injury and preferred to keep the top 9 intact as possible. I don't profess to know what their reasoning was. Or even if it was right or wrong. They did win the game... but that doesn't necessary mean it was the right decision either. But I still maintain my point that KK's usage last night won't stunt his development. The sky isn't falling here.

 

[Habs Icing]

Danault is a middle 6 center and KK is a 3rd line center quality. We disagree. You are way too low on KK as a 20 year old.

Not on a contender, he isn't. Danault is a 3rd line center on an excellent team. And I think KK will eventually take over Danault's role. I don't see in this kid the offense so many posters are hoping for and the operative word is hoping.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not on a contender, he isn't. Danault is a 3rd line center on an excellent team. And I think KK will eventually take over Danault's role. I don't see in this kid the offense so many posters are hoping for and the operative word is hoping.

Danault is one of the best 200' middle 6 centers in the game today. He's not just some average 3C. He's like Eller who is an above average 3C. Problem with Danault is not play on the ice, it's his contract AAV demands. Many teams would love to have an asset like this but won't pay more than $5M. Some would prefer around $4.5M... especially with the flat cap

KK is a 3C quality right now today at age 20. Keep trying to deflate that.

 

[guapo23]

For everyone whining that KK is being ruined by playing slightly less minutes yesterday, at practice today he is playing on the 1st line in Gallagher's spot.

Stand by for the whiners to shift the goal posts and start complaining he is being ruined by playing wing instead of center. Let's just ignore that for the first time in decades the Habs have depth, size and skill at center. Particularly with 6'4 Staal.

 

[sheed36]

As Staal was going down the wing, my first thought was "He's going to score just like he did on Brodeur back in the playoffs in 09 (Shock at the Rock). Sure enough, same thing.

Must be this one.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Not sure what game your watching but Danault is much better in all three zones. Notice McDavid's lack of production last couple against us. That's a lot of Danault.

I agree. His defensive contribution is often minimized in this forum. I cannot accept that we could substitute any other center in the system in his place and expect the same result. I hope that MB is able to bring him on-board long-term at a reasonable cost. As much as I like Staal, I don't think that he obviates Danault long-term.

 

[tazsub3]

For everyone whining that KK is being ruined by playing slightly less minutes yesterday, at practice today he is playing on the 1st line in Gallagher's spot.

Stand by for the whiners to shift the goal posts and start complaining he is being ruined by playing wing instead of center. Let's just ignore that for the first time in decades the Habs have depth, size and skill at center. Particularly with 6'4 Staal.

I am repeating myself, but is starting a game and starting Ot in 2 o f last 3 games being ruined?