St. Louis wins the lottery -- pick speculation

[Tinordi24*]

It's not so bad if the Caps rank EJ as that much better than anyone else potentially available at 4th. Also, if I'm St. Louis, it would take that kind of package to give up the 1st overall. On a sidenote, I remember reading that St. Louis was extremely high on Okposo. They might trade down for extra assets to get they guy they really want (supposedly) anyway.

I suppose another question to ask is: what current NHLer or prospect could that package land?

Would Calgary trade Phaneuf for (Backstrom/Staal/Toews) + Boyd Gordon/Klepis + 23rd overall?

 

[dinoflint]

Ofcourse if the Caps could negotiate something like you say I'd be all over it!

But I'd be PREPARED to part with the above.

And make no mistake:

EJ>>>everyone else in draft ESPECIALLY if have glaring need for a dman

I agree - only pay what you have to, but you and I are on the same page as to the outer limits of the trade.

If the Caps could somehow move up to get Johnson (the 4th pick and a 2nd rounder?) and then move the Nashville pick up to get Frolik (the 23rd pick plus a package of the other 2nd rounders/players???) - I'd be happy, er, REALLY HAPPY.

Qualifier here - I think Frolik is going to fall a bit in the draft because other teams value other players more at their picks...not because he's "not good"

 

[EYEuhFRAYtee]

I'm not saying I wouldn't take EJ....I'm saying the reality is he isn't going to be a Cap. I'm fine with the 4th pick as we're waffer thin at center. We have a RW as our top center and a 3rd liner as our second center.

 

[Tinordi24*]

I'm not saying I wouldn't take EJ....I'm saying the reality is he isn't going to be a Cap. I'm fine with the 4th pick as we're waffer thin at center. We have a RW as our top center and a 3rd liner as our second center.

Dont be so sure. The Caps will make a pitch to trade up for Johnson as they should. They have the surplus assets to do so and a glaring need for a top dman.

Ofcourse you are right. If they dont trade it then its not a bad thing as we need a center too, but our D is horrendous and has been for 10 years. You cant expect a 36yo Kolzig to save the bacon all the time. I still have nightmares of the Goocher, Joltin Joe Reekie, and an old creaky boned Calle Jo being three of the top 4 dmen on the team.

Say what you will about guys like Green, Eminger and Morrisonn but none of them have the meanstreak and offensive ability that a guy like EJ does. Not even close.

 

[EYEuhFRAYtee]

We have had no blue chipper in the last decade!

The Caps were known for D because the played an Ultra conservative clutch and grab style of D where all their forwards would be thinking D first outside of Bondra.

Our truly great teams had the likes of Stevens and Langway on them.

Look what Langway did for the Caps as SOON AS HE ARRIVED. Look at what Stevens did for the Blues and Devils as soon as he set foot on those teams.


If we assume EJ has Phaneuf or Pronger like talent then would you make this trade? I would be all over it if I was the Caps! And most seem to think that he indeed does have that kind of talent.

Now if I were another team that needed to replenish the farm well then I would not do it.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. Even though Stevens and Langway were great Dmen we never got into the finals with them. As I said in another post, yes I'd take EJ had we won the lotto. The reality is he's not going to be a Cap though.

I guess I'll eat EroCaps cat if he does end up a Cap though.

 

[Checker*]

Would Calgary trade Phaneuf for (Backstrom/Staal/Toews) + Boyd Gordon/Klepis + 23rd overall?

The problem with that logic though is that you're equating E Johnson to Phaneuf while equating (Backstrom/Staal/Toews) to themselves. To make all things equal, if you're going to assume that E Johnson hits his max potential, you have to do the same for who gets picked 4th. Therefore the question becomes, if the Blues take Staal

Phaneuf for Thornton, Gordon/Klepis and 23rd overall...the water gets murky.

 

[Letang fan 58]

Would Calgary trade Phaneuf for (Backstrom/Staal/Toews) + Boyd Gordon/Klepis + 23rd overall?

Not ever.....zero chance

 

[dinoflint]

Not ever.....zero chance

I'd have to agree on that, he is going to be something special - an AO/Crosby type of generational stud on defense. No way he get's moved.

 

[Tinordi24*]

The problem with that logic though is that you're equating E Johnson to Phaneuf while equating (Backstrom/Staal/Toews) to themselves. To make all things equal, if you're going to assume that E Johnson hits his max potential, you have to do the same for who gets picked 4th. Therefore the question becomes, if the Blues take Staal

Phaneuf for Thornton, Gordon/Klepis and 23rd overall...the water gets murky.

Youre right. I see what you are saying. But you know what? I'd probably still take Phaneuf! He's that good!

And IMO ...a great #1dman is much more important to any team more so than a great #1 center and surplus prospects.

 

[Jackets16]

If Kessel (or one of the other forwards) lands here in Pittsburgh it will be to convert to wing. We desperately need wings who can score, unless you consider Andy Hilbert to be the solution. We are just fine on defense.

i know that, thats not the point. the point is where each draftee fits in the BEST

 

[tom_servo]

Congrats, St. Louis. I was actually hoping you would land the #1 pick after this season (and I don't mean that in a bad way).

 

[Gardebut30]

To the point that we will have to trade NHL calibre players just so that they can play. Whitney, Orpik, Noah Welch, Alex Goligoski, Ryan Lannon, Kristopher Letang, Andy Schneider, Paul Bissonnette . . . and so on. Where are we going to play them all?

You may have to trade some of them for them to "get a shot" at the NHL, but where do you get the idea these are all NHL calibre players? Letang, Schneider, Bissonnette? They look decent, but far from establishing themselves a career in the NHL. That being said, Kessel would be the better pick for Pittsburgh, I agree with that.

 

[Gardebut30]

Add Pittsburgh to the Kessel list. In best fit for him even more than best fit for the club. He would not have to be the man in Pittsburgh. The pressure would be far greater to 'save' those other two clubs.

I'd prefer the Hawks to grab Toews, maybe even Staal, but what's wrong with Kessel having to be the man in St. Louis or Chicago? The media pressure in these two cities wouldn't suffocate him like they would in other markets. Kessel may just be another great face among greater ones in Pittsburgh, but he also may be looking to carve a great identity for himself where he "is the man". Only speculation at this point really.

 

[GKJ]

For anyone who missed the mock draft we had in the chat:




http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=244122

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You may have to trade some of them for them to "get a shot" at the NHL, but where do you get the idea these are all NHL calibre players? Letang, Schneider, Bissonnette? They look decent, but far from establishing themselves a career in the NHL. That being said, Kessel would be the better pick for Pittsburgh, I agree with that.

As it stands now, the Penguins organization has built the strongest and deepest pool of young talent in the league – with two of the finest young phenoms in hockey topping the list.

The list does not just contain high draft picks, however. The Penguins have shown a knack for uncovering some hidden gems in the late rounds. Maxime Talbot (8th Round, 234th overall 2002), Matt Moulson (9th Round, 263rd overall 2003) and Ryan Lannon (8th Round, 239th overall 2002) are all examples, with Talbot and Moulson in the top 10.

It is an embarrassment of riches that will almost certainly be spread among the other 29 franchises once the Penguins are in a position to trade prospects for immediate help at the NHL level. There are simply too many players with genuine NHL potential to be left in the minors over the next few years.

http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=8308&mode=threaded&order=0

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Congrats St. Louis!

We in Pittsburgh feel like we won the lottery too. Our biggest fear was falling to three.

God, this is pathetic.
The Penguins don't deserve another potential superstar.

Your biggest fear was falling to three?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

God, this is pathetic.
The Penguins don't deserve another potential superstar.

Your biggest fear was falling to three?

Actually that it annoys you is the cherry on top. Please, go on some more about how unfair it is.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Don't worry, TinCan. As we have seen, Karma has a memory. Re: Sergei Gonchar, Jocelyn Thibault.

 

[X0ssbar]

Actually that it annoys you is the cherry on top. Please, go on some more about how unfair it is.

Yes, please proceed tincan..I enjoy seeing the same tired argument in every single NHL draft thread in this place.

 

[Prussian_Blue]

For anyone who missed the mock draft we had in the chat:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=244122

I want the Blues to take Johnson, hands down... that said, if the Blues come out of the first round with Kessel and Mitera on June 24, I won't shed any tears.

And I'd have to seriously consider the Washington offer (the #4, #23, and Klepis or Gordon for the #1). At #4 the Blues could justify taking either Peter Mueller (whom I really like) or Kyle Okposo (whom I also really like), and at #23 they could take Alexandrov and probably still have Mitera there at #27.

P_B

 

[tom_servo]

God, this is pathetic.
The Penguins don't deserve another potential superstar.

Your biggest fear was falling to three?

My biggest fear was upsetting the HFBoards contingent.

 

[Gardebut30]

There are simply too many players with genuine NHL potential to be left in the minors over the next few years.

The words calibre and potential are not interchangeable.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

there is 0 chance that Tlusty gets picked ahead of Frolik,

I think there is actually a pretty decent chance he does. He's been better than him all season long and he has tremendous upside.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The Penguins shouldn't be allowed any more draft picks until they win another Cup.

 

[HockeyMan9]

That would be pointless. I agree that the blues are unlikely to draft EJ and that means the Penguins who want EJ wont need to trade up to get him.
Florida and Columbus did a similar thing in 2002, which was pointless as first of all Florida didn't gain anything from drafting down and secondly of all Columbus would have Nash if they had stayed at 3 anyway.

Actually Columbus didn't have a choice. Nash was either going to be drafted #1 by them or at #2 to either Philly or Vancouver. Brian Burke is on record saying he had a deal in place for the #2 pick to get Nash and it was rumoured that Philly was trying to get Atlanta to drop down to the #4 pick where Lehtonen would most likely still be available.

Pittsburgh would be wise to do the same if they think a team like Washington is making a push for the #1 pick to take EJ, with him being by far and away the best dman available this year.