St. Louis and San Jose Watch (1st round picks)

[MackAttack26]

So with Dallas winning this is very simple now.

Dallas beats St. Louis -> Pick 17-19
St. Louis beats Dallas -> Pick 28-31

 

[GellMann]

So with Dallas winning this is very simple now.

Dallas beats St. Louis -> Pick 17-19
St. Louis beats Dallas -> Pick 28-31

I didn't really care about this before the current situation unfolded.

That's a notable difference, and quite simple to follow.

I believe this is where I say that St. Louis has done enough to eviscerate the takes I hated so much early this season, and my interest in a mid-first for my true team overcomes my general NHL "second team interest" in a fun playoff setting.

Let's go Dallas, CBJ, and whoever else we need to win for us to pick 17th.

Also, I might get to go see my first ever NHL playoff game in Dallas if the games line up right.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I didn't really care about this before the current situation unfolded.

That's a notable difference, and quite simple to follow.

I believe this is where I say that St. Louis has done enough to eviscerate the takes I hated so much early this season, and my interest in a mid-first for my true team overcomes my general NHL "second team interest" in a fun playoff setting.

Let's go Dallas, CBJ, and whoever else we need to win for us to pick 17th.

Also, I might get to go see my first ever NHL playoff game in Dallas if the games line up right.

If Dallas beats St Louis, then to bump the pick higher we need CBJ to win and one of Colorado or Vegas (which would be guaranteed if Vegas beats SJ in game 7).

 

[EichHart]

Would be shocked if Dallas beats the Blues. Really dumb trade by Botts.

 

[Willgamesh]

Would be shocked if Dallas beats the Blues. Really dumb trade by Botts.

You would honestly be shocked after how these playoffs have gone?

 

[Uberpecker]

Would be shocked if Dallas beats the Blues. Really dumb trade by Botts.

Which one?

 

[Tsyolin]

Go Stars, just this once, and only for this series.

 

[The Red Helmet]

Another dumb move by Botts. ROR, Hunwick condition, Reinhart bridge, how he has handled Skinner and this. All in a short span. In over his head.

 

[Tsyolin]

Another dumb move by Botts. ROR, Hunwick condition, Reinhart bridge, how he has handled Skinner and this. All in a short span. In over his head.

I'm sorry what? You don't like the Montour trade? Also the Skinner situation isn't even done yet what are you talking about, I doubt you'd feel the same way if he ends up signing here for a good price.

Botts deserves some criticism for other things but I don't think you can predict the Central absolutely imploding at the end of the season.

 

[The Red Helmet]

I'm sorry what? You don't like the Montour trade? Also the Skinner situation isn't even done yet what are you talking about, I doubt you'd feel the same way if he ends up signing here for a good price.

Botts deserves some criticism for other things but I don't think you can predict the Central absolutely imploding at the end of the season.

The Montour trade was okay but Botterill paid and absolute premium. The difference between 17 and 31 in this draft is large and imo you find a way to get that deal done without that condition. Bob Murray probably would have done that trade without that condition but added it in because he knew he could abuse Botterill.

On the Skinner situation, it may not be done yet but it has been handled almost as poorly as can be. He should have been locked up a day after the trade. The longer you wait, the more you pay, it's pretty much a guarantee. That is why McPhee locked Stone up as soon as he traded for him. If you sign him after the trade he is a 7-7.5 million a year player. Now he is 8 minimum.

Seeing what teams paid at the deadline and knowing a deal wasn't forthcoiming, the next best move would have been to move him but Botterill actually thought this team could push for the playoffs at that point and was talking progress lmao.

Now you are left with the final option of paying the going rate or more in the off-season to keep him. If you does walk, you have a situation where you have a team void of offense letting a 40 goal scorer go because Botterill didn't have the foresight to pay the man when they should have and to trade the man when he should have. The situation has the potential for embarrassment written all over it. Even if he does re-sign you are paying a premium just like for Montour.

Also the pick we gave up for Skinner could easily end up being withing 10 picks of the one we got for Kane. If he walks we just gave up 90% of the value of the pick we received for Kane for a year of Skinner. Another reason why that Montour condition was incredibly stupid.

Also I like how you neglected the Reinhart bridge. His contract will be more expensive than Skinner's now and will cost us at least 2 million on the cap in Dahlin and Eichel's prime years.

Then there is ROR. Does more need to be said, the guy sucks.

 

[Snippit]

People are actually misunderstanding the situation.

If STL gets to the conference finals, then the pick Botts will have given away will only be a few spots worse, and that's assuming SJ doesn't also make it. So in reality it's not the difference between 17/28, but rather 25/28.

It was still a stupid condition, but now it seems like fate is what will cost us a good pick, rather than the Montour trade.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If there was no condition and Botterill did what everyone would've wanted at the time, Anaheim would have the SJ pick right now. It could go either way, it's a dice roll.

 

[is the answer jesus]

So with Dallas winning this is very simple now.

Dallas beats St. Louis -> Pick 17-19
St. Louis beats Dallas -> Pick 28-31

Remember when idiots defending the trade said it was just a matter of a few spots in the 1st round? Yeah I do too. I really hope Dallas can pull this out.

 

[Zman5778]

Remember when idiots defending the trade said it was just a matter of a few spots in the 1st round? Yeah I do too.

I mean........it's still possible that San Jose and St. Louis meet in the WCF. In which case, it is just a matter of a few spots.

And if STL makes the WCF and San Jose doesn't....and STL loses in the WCF........then I think it's a 4 spot difference, depending on who makes the CF.

 

[GellMann]

I mean, I'd still defend the Montour trade. He's good at hockey, Guhle isn't, so something needed to bridge that gap.

And yes, I'm aware that there are probably .3 r^2 value stats with negligible sample size that say Guhle isn't bad, but he's bad right now. And I'm not a fan of his vision or quick-twitch decision-making ability, so I don't believe he has a high ceiling to reach.

 

[MagnumForce2]

It stinks that the player we traded for the pick could end up being huge in the outcome of where the pick ends up falling.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Remember when idiots defending the trade said it was just a matter of a few spots in the 1st round? Yeah I do too. I really hope Dallas can pull this out.

Uh it is just a matter of a few spots. The difference between the Sharks and Blues pick is not 12-14 spots if the Sharks do not win tonight then the most we lose out on is 7 spots. The 4 CF teams get 28-31.

I love the people who just "know" Anaheim would just accept whatever 1st we gave them. I actually "know" that Bob Murray would have taken a 2nd+Guhle for Montour but since the idiot Botts wasted the 2nd on that Skinner trade he was then forced to surrender a 1st. But before it was sent to central registry Botts felt bad and told Bob Murray that he would insert a condition giving Anaheim a better draft pick because he felt bad that he couldn't give him the original asking price of a 2nd and Guhle.

I totally made that up, just like the people claiming that Anaheim would have accepted whatever pick we wanted to give.

You know its a petty grudge against the GM when people are up in arms over a possible 5-6 drop of picks in a trade for a 25 year old top 4 RHD. Like are people insinuating that they wouldn't have done the trade if Anaheim insisted on getting the better of the 1sts no matter what?

 

[Fezzy126]

If Vegas wins the Montour trade discussion is a moot point.

 

[MagnumForce2]

If Vegas wins the Montour trade discussion is a moot point.

Where would the San Jose pick fall in this scenario?

 

[Fezzy126]

Where would the San Jose pick fall in this scenario?

Somewhere below 28 depending on who makes the conference finals. So either the blues lose and we keep their pick in the teens, or the blues make the wcf and we keep their pick at 28 or higher. Either way the SJS pick goes to Anaheim per the original trade

 

[MagnumForce2]

Somewhere below 28 depending on who makes the conference finals. So either the blues lose and we keep their pick in the teens, or the blues make the wcf and we keep their pick at 28 or higher. Either way the SJS pick goes to Anaheim per the original trade

Thanks interesting.

 

[MackAttack26]

Obviously, I would like to pick 17-19 instead of 28-31.

But holy shit people make a big deal out of the conditions on the trade.

Even if Botts said "We get the earlier 1st or no deal"
- If STL loses we get 17-19 EITHER WAY
- If STL wins AND SJ wins 2 rounds, we get 28-31 EITHER WAY
- If STL wins AND SJ doesn't win 2 rounds, we would have gotten 22-23 instead of 28-31.

Are people really continuing to make this big of a fuss over those 5 or so spots Botts potentially traded away.

Especially considering it was a very good trade either way and brought back a big need for us.

It's pretty ridiculous to continue reading Botts hatred every page in this thread.

 

[Fjordy]

I don't care about this choice, this year such a deep draft, I don't know whom to take, dazzled, it is also possible Botterill will trade this pick to strengthen the squad in the here and now.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Uh it is just a matter of a few spots. The difference between the Sharks and Blues pick is not 12-14 spots if the Sharks do not win tonight then the most we lose out on is 7 spots. The 4 CF teams get 28-31.

I love the people who just "know" Anaheim would just accept whatever 1st we gave them. I actually "know" that Bob Murray would have taken a 2nd+Guhle for Montour but since the idiot Botts wasted the 2nd on that Skinner trade he was then forced to surrender a 1st. But before it was sent to central registry Botts felt bad and told Bob Murray that he would insert a condition giving Anaheim a better draft pick because he felt bad that he couldn't give him the original asking price of a 2nd and Guhle.

I totally made that up, just like the people claiming that Anaheim would have accepted whatever pick we wanted to give.

You know its a petty grudge against the GM when people are up in arms over a possible 5-6 drop of picks in a trade for a 25 year old top 4 RHD. Like are people insinuating that they wouldn't have done the trade if Anaheim insisted on getting the better of the 1sts no matter what?

"A few" is a small quantity. Potentially moving 10+ spots in the 1st round isn't a small quantity. Did you see Zemgus' post? The pick can end up anywhere from 17-31. If it's 20 or higher we lose it. Maybe it ends up being just 5 or 6 spots, but why take that risk? I have no idea what Murray would or wouldn't have accepted in a deal for Montour. I do know Botterill agreeing to this condition was a completely f***ing stupid brain dead act. Had this been a make or break condition for Murray I would have told him to pound salt if I were Botterill. You can't let other GM's walk all over you and insist you accept no win conditions like this and huge useless cap dump vets with term. GM's have to be laughing their balls off after they make these deals with Botterill. How there's a contingent of fans that can actually support these moronic moves is just beyond me.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

Problem is that it shouldn't even be an issue right now... he has repeatedly added these conditions on a bunch of his trades and it's completely idiotic. Add on anything else to increase value to a trade package like every other competent GM does, stop continuing to rely on luck. That's Dorian stupid and definitely needs to be called out as such.