SSM Greyhounds 2019-20 Season Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
i happen to think the current roster is great. we have a truly elite squad of 01/02 forwards who will only get better. my expectations are different as i would look at this year as a development year, and a year to recoup a few assets in order to make a splash when we have the team to warrant it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HockeyPops

soo hound girl

Registered User
Oct 20, 2017
995
692
I don’t hate the current roster but we almost won the division last year by riding 6 players Vilalta,SambrookHollowell,Frost,Howdeshell and Hayton
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWI Dale

jjhound

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
343
207
This team is older than last year's team that almost won the division. They are also scoring more goals and giving up fewer shots.

I'm flabbergasted by how much people hate the current roster.
Who hates it? Reality is we are still pretty young and lack high end talent 19 and 20 year olds. No Frost, Hollowell or Howdeshell to fill the net. Pytlick, McKay are 18, O'Rourke is 17. If Hayton finishes the season with us then that changes things. But if he returns and gets moved then we likely are upper end of middle(8th to 10th maybe). Next year can be really good depending on how the next months play out till the deadline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWI Dale

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
3,031
1,622
Who hates it? Reality is we are still pretty young and lack high end talent 19 and 20 year olds. No Frost, Hollowell or Howdeshell to fill the net. Pytlick, McKay are 18, O'Rourke is 17. If Hayton finishes the season with us then that changes things. But if he returns and gets moved then we likely are upper end of middle(8th to 10th maybe). Next year can be really good depending on how the next months play out till the deadline.

I notice you didn't respond to the other facts I mentioned because they don't fit your predictions. This is a deeper, older, and better offensive team.

Pytlik is on pace for 106 points, Peca 93. Three players are top 20 in scoring from the blueline.

I'm not making predictions about point totals, but keep in mind the jumps of the players that you mentioned. Howdeshell went from 36 points to 46 goals in one season. Hollowell went from a bubble player with 3 goals to the best blueliner in the league in 2 seasons.

Guys are going to step up and already have. Look at Peca playing at an elite level, Dickinson putting up a point per game as a rookie, Kerins with 6 goals already.
 

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
"facts" ...

;)


seems like we're mostly on the same page. i just didn't like seeing a goalie being thrown under the bus because someones predictions aren't panning out.
 

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
3,031
1,622
"facts" ...

;)


seems like we're mostly on the same page. i just didn't like seeing a goalie being thrown under the bus because someones predictions aren't panning out.

Yes, facts.

This year: 4.66 goals for per game
Last year: 4.29 goals for per game

This year: 27.44 shots allowed per game
Last year: 31.44 shots allowed per game

The skaters on this team are older and have played better than last year's squad. It's right there in the bottom line stats. Scoring goals and limiting shots is the recipe for success that every team strives for.

Both goalies have to do a better job. Propp in particular has been awful and he would tell you that. I don't care if you perceive that as throwing someone under the bus. It's the truth.

I predicted that he would be better, yes. I don't think that was unreasonable and I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BehindSooNet

jjhound

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
343
207
Yes, facts.

This year: 4.66 goals for per game
Last year: 4.29 goals for per game

This year: 27.44 shots allowed per game
Last year: 31.44 shots allowed per game

The skaters on this team are older and have played better than last year's squad. It's right there in the bottom line stats. Scoring goals and limiting shots is the recipe for success that every team strives for.

Both goalies have to do a better job. Propp in particular has been awful and he would tell you that. I don't care if you perceive that as throwing someone under the bus. It's the truth.

I predicted that he would be better, yes. I don't think that was unreasonable and I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
Realistically I see Ottawa, Oshawa,Peteborough, Saginaw, Flint, Kitchener with more points than us, and a battle with Sudbury, Barrie and London for the next 4 spots. That puts us from 7-10. In our conference I think we battle with London for the 4/5 spots and a first round match up. And Owen Sound is in there too. They can surprise. I will be excited to get to round 2 of the playoffs. I just hope you will be fine if that scenario happens and you do not get all over Raftis and Dean if the team does not exceed this. Next year we will be really good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWI Dale

Marj44

Registered User
Jun 17, 2015
263
206
Constantinou 'super excited' to join Hounds

I’m glad to read that Constantinou trained with Sambrook and thinks highly of the Soo. Hopefully that kicks his game up another notch. Article also says he’s friends with McLean and Carroll. Being comfortable is huge for any player and don’t understand estimate McLean or Carroll getting a boost from having him here as well.

The roster looks good this season and sets them up very nicely for next season. Here’s to hoping each player learns from their hiccups and mistakes this season.

Trott-Pytlik-MacKay
Dickinson-Kerins-Peca
Carroll-Johnston-McLean
Boudreau-Kartye-Watson
(Muffareh)

O’Rourke-LeGuerrier
Wale-Constantinou
Calisti-Wawrow
(Holmes, Halushak)

Taylor
Propp

I’d expect a Dman to be moved closer to the deadline (most likely Calisti, Halushak or Wale).
Team loses Peca and Propp next year with OA spots currently aligning to Trott, Wale, LeGuerrier.
 

HockeyPops

Registered User
Aug 20, 2018
7,129
6,031
Dale, I believe the argument against by Fischhaber was that 1) sample size too small to really compare, but 2) even if you went ahead and compared with that small sample size, the stats tell the opposite story. Since you didn't dispute the second point in your follow-up, it sounds like you are now agreeing with both points.

I am glad you edited your earlier post to take out the word "homer". We are all Greyhounds fans here, so it probably makes us all homers in our own ways. But last season and this season have given us lots to be excited about. Are we going to run away with first place in the conference this year? Very unlikely. But we should comfortably make the playoffs again, possibly with home ice advantage, and maybe win a series or two. We are achieving these results of last season and this season during "rebuilding" years. Last season we were tied for the 3rd overall most points! Let's see where we end up this season.

The season is young and the ceiling for this group is much higher than you seem to give credit. If they can keep up the impressive rate of improvement that they showed last season, they may achieve even more than they did last season. They might compete for and win Division champs. They might push the other top teams in a seven game series. We aren't riding 6 players this year. The entire team is clicking and we are rolling four scoring lines. Defense is limiting shots against. Offense is not an issue. The one glaring area of weakness in this early season has been goaltending. Why can't we call that out?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fischhaber

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
Dale, I believe the argument against by Fischhaber was that 1) sample size too small to really compare, but 2) even if you went ahead and compared with that small sample size, the stats tell the opposite story. Since you didn't dispute the second point in your follow-up, it sounds like you are now agreeing with both points.

My point was that just yesterday Fisch disregarded the stats I provided as being too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions from, and it seems that he is now relying on those same small sample size stats to prove his point.

I am glad you edited your earlier post to take out the word "homer". We are all Greyhounds fans here, so it probably makes us all homers in our own ways. But last season and this season have given us lots to be excited about. Are we going to run away with first place in the conference this year? Very unlikely. But we should comfortably make the playoffs again, possibly with home ice advantage, and maybe win a series or two. We are achieving these results of last season and this season during "rebuilding" years. Last season we were tied for the 3rd overall most points! Let's see where we end up this season.

I believe we have lots to be excited for "GOING FORWARD" as well. I don't dispute that we are building a contender for sometime in the next few seasons. I believe we make the playoffs in the 5-8 position and lose in the first round. I picked who and when we would get knocked out last year at the trade deadline, and predicted that saginaw would overtake us in the regular season standings. I was called negative, and a "bad fan" but that didn't stop me from being spot on. I'm just forecasting what I feel is realistic expectations for a young squad.

The season is young and the ceiling for this group is much higher than you seem to give credit. If they can keep up the impressive rate of improvement that they showed last season, they may achieve even more than they did last season. They might compete for and win Division champs. They might push the other top teams in a seven game series. We aren't riding 6 players this year. The entire team is clicking and we are rolling four scoring lines. Defense is limiting shots against. Offense is not an issue. The one glaring area of weakness in this early season has been goaltending. Why can't we call that out?

Our glaring weakness has been away from the puck, something yesterdays trade seems to suggest the team agrees with. Criticizing a goalie is ok, blaming a goalie for your win record with a young team in front is disingenuous and asinine.

It truly doesn't matter what anybody thinks, or how long-winded our responses are, the proof is in the results. I think after the 20 game mark things will be much clearer.
 
Last edited:

Riverfront

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
1,052
474
mentioned long before season started that depending on what happens with barrett hayton will determine the kind of season the hounds would
have. If hayton were to be returned the hounds are a top 4 finisher in the western conference. If hayton does not return the hounds are a 5-8
team in the western conference. Now Rafftis has a decision to make, ideally if he is building for a championship run next season, he should
pray for a hayton return, argueably the best player in the league will land him a top notch young player and a boatload of draft picks at the
trade deadline , that would bold well for a true run next season if that is what rafftis has planned. For 6 years and counting the hounds have
not been sellers at the trade deadline, at some point you have to sell to recoup picks, young talent for a run down the road. Many pundits
out there say that sell should have occured last season by trading Frost, Hollowell, Sambrook, & Vilalta.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DWI Dale

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
mentioned long before season started that depending on what happens with barrett hayton will determine the kind of season the hounds would
have. If hayton were to be returned the hounds are a top 4 finisher in the western conference. If hayton does not return the hounds are a 5-8
team in the western conference. Now Rafftis has a decision to make, ideally if he is building for a championship run next season, he should
pray for a hayton return, argueably the best player in the league will land him a top notch young player and a boatload of draft picks at the
trade deadline , that would bold well for a true run next season if that is what rafftis has planned. For 6 years and counting the hounds have
not been sellers at the trade deadline, at some point you have to sell to recoup picks, young talent for a run down the road. Many pundits
out there say that sell should have occured last season by trading Frost, Hollowell, Sambrook, & Vilalta.

I'm definitely one of those fans that believe we should have at a minimum dealt frost last season, AND we should deal Hayton this year (assuming he returns).

Watching us stand pat only to get turfed early (as expected) was pretty frustrating. We could have sold frosty and still made the 2nd round.

That is my EXACT fear when I see people over-valuing our chances this year.
 

jjhound

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
343
207
I'm definitely one of those fans that believe we should have at a minimum dealt frost last season, AND we should deal Hayton this year (assuming he returns).

Watching us stand pat only to get turfed early (as expected) was pretty frustrating. We could have sold frosty and still made the 2nd round.

That is my EXACT fear when I see people over-valuing our chances this year.
The only problem was that last year returns were really minimal at the deadline, and for what was being offered for our top guys was not worth considering.
 

LR8

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
390
217
Early, but it appears that I was wrong thinking that the goalie was a steal for the greyhounds. Has work to do to get close to performance of previous goalies. Conditional 15th, but has the final cost of that trade been established?
 

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
The only problem was that last year returns were really minimal at the deadline, and for what was being offered for our top guys was not worth considering.

i appreciate that argument but my argument is that we got NOTHING for any of them + a 2nd round exit. 2nd round picks being "the currency" for making a splash at the deadline, we need to take a little short term pain at some point. if we get a great deal for hayton then we're in good shape.
 

jjhound

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
343
207
i appreciate that argument but i argument is that we got NOTHING for any of them + a 2nd round exit.
Entertainment, and a better chance to advance. Hindsight is 20/20, even though I get exactly your thoughts, sometimes you do not want to give away your assets.
 

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
Has work to do to get close to performance of previous goalies.

Campbell, Murray, Halverson, and Villalta have set the bar pretty high. I don't believe either of our starters will ever be near that caliber. We'll see about the czech kid and if he reports.
 

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
3,031
1,622
Dale, if you understand this, then you will understand my line of thinking.

A percentage stat like penalty kill is extremely variable. It is based on only 3 or 4 occurrences per game and one outlier result can have a big impact, especially after only 9 games. That's why you see teams go from 3rd to 13th after 1 game.

It takes a long to to stabilize, meaning we need a very large sample to find out which teams are good at penalty killing. We just don't know yet.

A stat like shots for/against relies on a large number of occurences (50+) and is not affected very much by outliers.

This stat stabilizes very quickly and tells you who the good teams are really early in the season.

I haven't looked at the numbers of all teams, but we are a lot better than Oshawa, Kitchener, and last year's Greyhounds. There's a good chance we are the best in the league so far.

That should make you very optimistic, as it's an extremely important statistic.
 

HockeyPops

Registered User
Aug 20, 2018
7,129
6,031
We could have sold frosty and still made the 2nd round.
This is far from assured. Had we sold Frost we would have been overtaken by at least Guelph. How would we have fared against Kitchener? Hard to say. We do know that in the 5 game series against Owen Sound, Frost scored 9 points for us.
i appreciate that argument but my argument is that we got NOTHING for any of them + a 2nd round exit.
Entertainment, and a better chance to advance.
We got much more than that. We got our youth the experience of winning a playoff round, and winning a few games in the second round. We got the ability to shelter our rookies and give them minutes when they were positioned to be most successful. Do you think it's a fluke that our core 01's/02's have developed this quickly? We got our '01 forwards to catch up to our '00 forwards and as a result we got picks in return for Roth who became redundant on the wing.

We got another highly successful regular season. We got a chance to build another plank onto our Franchise's reputation. We got Pytlik to report (does he report if we sell at the deadline?) We got all of our 2019 Priority Draft picks to report to camp. We got bums in the seats for another season. We got fans excited about our team for another year.

None of these things should be taken for granted and all of these things provide value to the organization. Raftis has been instrumental in all of these successes and maximizing the assets of the organization as though he is playing the stock market; buy low, sell high. Just look at his recent moves; buying Constaninou, selling Roth, buying Propp, buying Peca, selling DeMeo. How does selling Frost for pennies on the dollar fit into this proven management strategy, exactly?
 

Pope Francis 1

Registered User
Mar 13, 2013
72
42
The decision on March 10, 2019 versus WSR (4-3 OTL) to play Taylor cost SSM the Divisional Championship and perhaps more. I felt it that day when I saw the result and believe it to be true even more so today with the benefit of hindsight. Saginaw was the better team in the playoffs, but who knows with home ice advantage reversed how it may have played out.
 

jjhound

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
343
207
This is far from assured. Had we sold Frost we would have been overtaken by at least Guelph. How would we have fared against Kitchener? Hard to say. We do know that in the 5 game series against Owen Sound, Frost scored 9 points for us.


We got much more than that. We got our youth the experience of winning a playoff round, and winning a few games in the second round. We got the ability to shelter our rookies and give them minutes when they were positioned to be most successful. Do you think it's a fluke that our core 01's/02's have developed this quickly? We got our '01 forwards to catch up to our '00 forwards and as a result we got picks in return for Roth who became redundant on the wing.

We got another highly successful regular season. We got a chance to build another plank onto our Franchise's reputation. We got Pytlik to report (does he report if we sell at the deadline?) We got all of our 2019 Priority Draft picks to report to camp. We got bums in the seats for another season. We got fans excited about our team for another year.

None of these things should be taken for granted and all of these things provide value to the organization. Raftis has been instrumental in all of these successes and maximizing the assets of the organization as though he is playing the stock market; buy low, sell high. Just look at his recent moves; buying Constaninou, selling Roth, buying Propp, buying Peca, selling DeMeo. How does selling Frost for pennies on the dollar fit into this proven management strategy, exactly?
Exactly
 

DWI Dale

Registered User
Mar 23, 2014
1,753
1,549
The Soo
i just don't see how everybody thinks we can go forever without restocking the cupboards after TWO recent championship runs. eventually raftis is going to leave to the big leagues and leave us with nothing.
 
Last edited:

Fischhaber

Registered User
Sep 3, 2014
3,031
1,622
i just don't see how everybody thinks we can go forever without restocking the cupboards after TWO recent championship runs. eventually raftis is going to leave to the big leagues and leave us with empty cupboards.

Make sure you read my post on statistics. I think it will help you to understand why your point of view is not shared.

Regarding the picks, we don't have a deficit. Raftis drafts really well (8 players from 2017 alone) and doesn't make mistakes in trades. There's no need to restock.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->