Square peg in a round hole

[GoonieFace]

“Maybe people think that we hated each other, sometimes,” Zetterberg said. “I won’t say we did that. But, there were times when we weren’t that friendly, maybe."

“He is difficult. And, especially if you had him for 10 years, you know? Any coach for 10 years would be hard,” Zetterberg said. “But then you add Mike into it. He puts a lot of pressure on guys. He wants you involved. He wants you to buy in.”

“My relationship with him has always been good. We butted heads a lot of times. I think he knew he could tell me whatever he wanted. And, I knew I could tell him whatever I wanted.”

“He found a way to push me into an 'I’m going to show you’ kind of thing. Not everyone, I think, can handle it,” Zetterberg

Good or bad , i dont know. Zetterberg is a mentaly tough guy from the northen parts of Sweden. Dont think you should use the same tactics against every player.

Z also said this after Babcock left.
" I would probably say that we are more offensive now than we were under Mike Babcock. It's a little more offensive thinking. Now we have a coach who wants us to do something offensive, not just defensive, says "Zäta" and adds that:
- Everyone probably thinks it's a joy to play this year."

Just one player so take it for what its worth. I still belive we should benefit from a more offensive minded coaching.

How many cups did Detroit win after Babcock left? Zero. How fun was that?

 

[Commander Clueless]

We're already garbage defensively anyway. Who gives a ****?

Future us, most likely.

 

[ZEBROA]

How many cups did Detroit win after Babcock left? Zero. How fun was that?

With the same players in there prime? I dont know because that never happend.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

low event hockey doesnt mean defensive hockey
our players are suffering playin babcocks low event grindin hockey
and they ARE NOT WINNING A f***ING THING
AND ITS AWFULL TO WATCH
if we are not winning then at least play some fun hockey not this boring ass crap that literally makes me wanna go blind

 

[Dough72]

A team is always going to favour either pace or structure. We're clearly a pace team playing poorly structured hockey.

Auston Matthews himself said the same thing. Used words like skating, buzzing, high-pace, creativity. I wish I had the exact quote because it summed up the Leafs perfectly. Yet the criticism of Babcock is mostly the opposite. Too structured, too sniffling, too controlling etc.

 

[Not My Tempo]

By HockeyViz’s isolated threat, when Matthews and Nylander aren’t on the ice, this team is worse than the Oilers when McDavid and Draisaitl aren’t on the ice.

That is honestly unacceptable

 

[deletethis]

Dubas isn't in a hurry to fire Babcock because once he does, this is all on him. I'm sure the plan is waiting until the end of this season and tying a can to Babcock if Babcock accomplishes anything south of a Stanley Cup. Then Dubas hires his new coach and coaching staff in an atmosphere of stability that should get Dubas another 2 years of shelf time.

I'm still saying it: I think both the coach and the GM should be relieved of their jobs as soon as possible. The coach is past his sell-by date and the GM irreparably messed up by a large margin this team's salary structure. The GM has done the GM equivalent to whiffing on a couple of easy shots and kicked numerous rebounds right out into the slot.

 

[paulhiggins]

Dubas isn't in a hurry to fire Babcock because once he does, this is all on him. I'm sure the plan is waiting until the end of this season and tying a can to Babcock if Babcock accomplishes anything south of a Stanley Cup. Then Dubas hires his new coach and coaching staff in an atmosphere of stability that should get Dubas another 2 years of shelf time.

I'm still saying it: I think both the coach and the GM should be relieved of their jobs as soon as possible. The coach is past his sell-by date and the GM irreparably messed up by a large margin this team's salary structure. The GM has done the GM equivalent to whiffing on a couple of easy shots and kicked numerous rebounds right out into the slot.

Don't stop there. Look at the very top. Who hired them both? Tear the whole thing down and build a team in the proper order. President hires GM, GM hires coach. Team built from the net out. Too many Kovalchuks here...just wanting goals, points and money and no defence.

 

[Mike1]

This team is a defensive disaster. I actually understand what Babcock is trying to do by limiting the chances because if they don't then they're finished. The Leafs have no chance to do anything of substance unless they limit their goals against.

I have a question. At what point does the Babcock blaming get old & the fan base starts looking at the actual team? What if this is just the way this team plays & they are just a bunch of slackers? Do you really want to throw away another season on the concept it was all coaching? A new coach is going to come in & magically give this team a consistent work ethic?

Another point I'd like to make is that the GM seems to be getting away easy here. Who acquired Cody Ceci, Michael Hutchinson & Tyson Barrie? Those are all Kyle Dubas moves & all of them are garbage. Kyle Dubas has failed to improve this team's weak areas & doesn't have a read on what needs to be done with this team.

 

[ToMaLe]

Is this Charles Dickens creative hockey writing?

Shinny is the answer?

No playing to the teams strengths is the answer, not hindering it. You don’t hitch a racehorse to a hay cart, that’s what’s happening here.

 

[deletethis]

Is this Charles Dickens creative hockey writing?

Shinny is the answer?

When you start to lose your hearing, turning up the volume on the television works for a while. And it's not like there are any unwanted secondary effects.

 

[egd27]

No playing to the teams strengths is the answer, not hindering it. You don’t hitch a racehorse to a hay cart, that’s what’s happening here.

I've seen this written several times and am honestly curious as to what that would look like. It seems like the strength of this team may be high tempo, chance trading, pond hockey. Is that what you're looking for?

 

[GoonieFace]

No playing to the teams strengths is the answer, not hindering it. You don’t hitch a racehorse to a hay cart, that’s what’s happening here.

This teams supposed strengths will never amount to anything in the playoffs though, so you cant blame Babcock for wanting them to play a certain way.

 

[GoonieFace]

I've seen this written several times and am honestly curious as to what that would look like. It seems like the strength of this team may be high tempo, chance trading, pond hockey. Is that what you're looking for?

Seems like thats what people want and expect. Sounds like fun, but unfortunately will never win you anything.

 

[ToMaLe]

I've seen this written several times and am honestly curious as to what that would look like. It seems like the strength of this team may be high tempo, chance trading, pond hockey. Is that what you're looking for?

And I have seen this garbage all too often, why is playing to our strengths, pond hockey? You got the high tempo right, that is part of their strengths. Did you see the third period against the Hawks? Went away from stretch passes, dump and chase to up tempo, short passes to enter the zone with using their speed to beat defenders, not using their speed to chase down a puck from shoot ins that their defenders will get to first way more times then not. Works ok for heavy team, does it look like we have a heavy team to you? That is what I’m looking for ok bud!

 

[IPS]

And I have seen this garbage all too often, why is playing to our strengths, pond hockey? You got the high tempo right, that is part of their strengths. Did you see the third period against the Hawks? Went away from stretch passes, dump and chase to up tempo, short passes to enter the zone with using their speed to beat defenders, not using their speed to chase down a puck from shoot ins that their defenders will get to first way more times then not. Works ok for heavy team, does it look like we have a heavy team to you? That is what I’m looking for ok bud!

There's that and there's also the fact that this team's work rate is disgraceful, and there's no other team in the league that starts games so terribly like we do.

But it's ok, I've recently learned that getting the players to work hard isn't the coach's job

 

[GoonieFace]

And I have seen this garbage all too often, why is playing to our strengths, pond hockey? You got the high tempo right, that is part of their strengths. Did you see the third period against the Hawks? Went away from stretch passes, dump and chase to up tempo, short passes to enter the zone with using their speed to beat defenders, not using their speed to chase down a puck from shoot ins that their defenders will get to first way more times then not. Works ok for heavy team, does it look like we have a heavy team to you? That is what I’m looking for ok bud!

Using the 3rd period of a game against a garbage team who took their foot off the gas isnt the ideal case.

 

[ToMaLe]

This teams supposed strengths will never amount to anything in the playoffs though, so you cant blame Babcock for wanting them to play a certain way.

Where did I ever say this teams strengths will ever win anything in the playoffs? What I am saying is, the only chance you have with the way this team is built, is play to their strengths. Trying to make this team play a system they are not built for is pure foolishness. Like I said before get a coach in line with the team or get a team in line with the coach. Obvious as hell this garbage is not working.

 

[Trapper]

This teams supposed strengths will never amount to anything in the playoffs though, so you cant blame Babcock for wanting them to play a certain way.

I need to see the full blown Dubas vision.
I don’t think that will be achieved with Babcock.
Pass or fail, I need to see it.

 

[GoonieFace]

There's that and there's also the fact that this team's work rate is disgraceful, and there's no other team in the league that starts games so terribly like we do.

But it's ok, I've recently learned that getting the players to work hard isn't the coach's job

Of course its the coaches job, but if you have a bunch of brats that dont listen and dont want to work hard, than its a pointless exercise. This is the reason they need to move on from Babcock and let Dubas pick his guy. Fact is, Dubas is afraid of that, because Babcock is his last line of defence.

 

[ToMaLe]

The

Using the 3rd period of a game against a garbage team who took their foot off the gas isnt the ideal case.

Of course not because it proves you wrong. But of course don’t bring up that it was Babcock’s garbage system that got us so far behind against that same garbage team that you speak of, in the first 2 periods.

 

[GoonieFace]

I need to see the full blown Dubas vision.
I don’t think that will be achieved with Babcock.
Pass or fail, I need to see it.

Agree 100%, not sure what they are waiting for TBH

 

[GoonieFace]

The

Of course not because it proves you wrong.

Does it? I liken it to Kramer telling George and Jerry he is dominating his karate class, only for them to find out the rest of the class is 8 year olds.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Of course its the coaches job, but if you have a bunch of brats that dont listen and dont want to work hard, than its a pointless exercise. This is the reason they need to move on from Babcock and let Dubas pick his guy. Fact is, Dubas is afraid of that, because Babcock is his last line of defence.

It's the only real way to see if this is the right core. If not, we have some high end guys that can be moved.

 

[deletethis]

And I have seen this garbage all too often, why is playing to our strengths, pond hockey? You got the high tempo right, that is part of their strengths. Did you see the third period against the Hawks? Went away from stretch passes, dump and chase to up tempo, short passes to enter the zone with using their speed to beat defenders, not using their speed to chase down a puck from shoot ins that their defenders will get to first way more times then not. Works ok for heavy team, does it look like we have a heavy team to you? That is what I’m looking for ok bud!

I don't know why they dump the puck in. I'm sure the opposition would accommodate them and allow entry into the zone with possession to set up a play.

I don't know why they don't use short passes in the neutral zone and across the blueline. It's not like preventing/intercepting those passes is textbook neutral zone defensive tactics.

The best judgment of the effectiveness of a team's style is when the other team is leading by multiple goals. It's not like teams passively defend with larger leads.