Value of: spurgeon

[skyo]

Wild should trade Spurgeon for whatever they need, and trade for Stecher to replace him - his heir apparent.

 

[Puckstuff]

Minnesota gets:

Timothy Liljegren - potential #1 d-man.
Kasperi Kapanen - Potential top 6 winger.
Jake Gardiner - Top 3 d-man. 60 point potential.

Toronto gets:

Jared Spurgeon - Top pairing d-man.


Why the Wild do it:

They probably aren't good enough to win a championship this year; but they aren't bad enough to tank either. Getting Gardiner is a good gamble because he has 60 point potential. While they are getting back a current piece; they get two huge pieces for the future in Kapanen and Liljegren, . Jonas Brodin-Timothy Liljegren, Matthew Dumba is an insane d-core for the future.


Why the Leafs do it:

Jared Spurgeon (28) is the perfect age and style of defensmen for the leafs win now mode. The leafs signing Tavares means they are committed to winning now. While Timothy Liljegren is (19) the illusion is that he's actually an age that is core player. His age is actually not in line with the leafs core. Defensmen take longer to develop; and at 19; it could take 4-5 years before he's at the level of a reliable of a #1 d-man. If you are 19 and you are forward; then sure. But defensmen usually peak around 23-25.

 

[Fogelhund]

Minnesota gets:

Timothy Liljegren - potential #1 d-man.
Kasperi Kapanen - Potential top 6 winger.
Jake Gardiner - Top 3 d-man. 60 point potential.

Toronto gets:

Jared Spurgeon - Top pairing d-man.


Why the Wild do it:

They probably aren't good enough to win a championship this year; but they aren't bad enough to tank either. Getting Gardiner is a good gamble because he has 60 point potential. While they are getting back a current piece; they get two huge pieces for the future in Kapanen and Liljegren, . Jonas Brodin-Timothy Liljegren, Matthew Dumba is an insane d-core for the future.


Why the Leafs do it:

Jared Spurgeon (28) is the perfect age and style of defensmen for the leafs win now mode. The leafs signing Tavares means they are committed to winning now. While Timothy Liljegren is (19) the illusion is that he's actually an age that is core player. His age is actually not in line with the leafs core. Defensmen take longer to develop; and at 19; it could take 4-5 years before he's at the level of a reliable of a #1 d-man. If you are 19 and you are forward; then sure. But defensmen usually peak around 23-25.

As a fellow Leafs fan, that is more than I'd be willing to give up. Pass.

 

[AKL]

Minnesota gets:

Timothy Liljegren - potential #1 d-man.
Kasperi Kapanen - Potential top 6 winger.
Jake Gardiner - Top 3 d-man. 60 point potential.

Toronto gets:

Jared Spurgeon - Top pairing d-man.


Why the Wild do it:

They probably aren't good enough to win a championship this year; but they aren't bad enough to tank either. Getting Gardiner is a good gamble because he has 60 point potential. While they are getting back a current piece; they get two huge pieces for the future in Kapanen and Liljegren, . Jonas Brodin-Timothy Liljegren, Matthew Dumba is an insane d-core for the future.


Why the Leafs do it:

Jared Spurgeon (28) is the perfect age and style of defensmen for the leafs win now mode. The leafs signing Tavares means they are committed to winning now. While Timothy Liljegren is (19) the illusion is that he's actually an age that is core player. His age is actually not in line with the leafs core. Defensmen take longer to develop; and at 19; it could take 4-5 years before he's at the level of a reliable of a #1 d-man. If you are 19 and you are forward; then sure. But defensmen usually peak around 23-25.

I love the word “potential.” So much room for creative use. Like saying that Liljegren could be a #1 D. Very fun word to use.

 

[Bazeek]

Minnesota gets:

Timothy Liljegren - potential #1 d-man.
Kasperi Kapanen - Potential top 6 winger.
Jake Gardiner - Top 3 d-man. 60 point potential.

Toronto gets:

Jared Spurgeon - Top pairing d-man.


Why the Wild do it:

They probably aren't good enough to win a championship this year; but they aren't bad enough to tank either. Getting Gardiner is a good gamble because he has 60 point potential. While they are getting back a current piece; they get two huge pieces for the future in Kapanen and Liljegren, . Jonas Brodin-Timothy Liljegren, Matthew Dumba is an insane d-core for the future.


Why the Leafs do it:

Jared Spurgeon (28) is the perfect age and style of defensmen for the leafs win now mode. The leafs signing Tavares means they are committed to winning now. While Timothy Liljegren is (19) the illusion is that he's actually an age that is core player. His age is actually not in line with the leafs core. Defensmen take longer to develop; and at 19; it could take 4-5 years before he's at the level of a reliable of a #1 1 d-man. If you are 19 and you are forward; then sure. But defensmen usually peak around 23-25.

Depending on one's views on Liljegren and Kapanen, this is both too much coming back to Minnesota and not enough.

I have no beef with Gardiner, but he's going to cost too much to extend and doesn't add anything that the Wild need. We already get plenty of scoring from our defensemen and are deep enough on the left side; there's no room for him.

While Liljegren would be nice to have, our blueline is also young enough that we don't really need a defensive prospect like him.

Kapanen would also be nice to have and a young, speedy, right-shot winger is definitely more of a need than the defensemen. But again, he's not a guy I'd want to lose Spurgeon for.

TL;DR: the best pieces in the deal aren't going to be all that appealing to Minnesota. I expect Leafs fans will dislike it, too.

 

[Puckstuff]

As a fellow Leafs fan, that is more than I'd be willing to give up. Pass.

You may not like it; but this is the last piece to the puzzle. This deal gives the leafs one of the best defensive groups in the entire eastern conference; while already having the best offence.

Morgan Rielly-Jared Spurgeon
Travis Dermott-Nikita Zaitsev
Andres Borgman-Ron Hainsey

 

[Fogelhund]

You may not like it; but this is the last piece to the puzzle. This deal gives the leafs one of the best defensive groups in the entire eastern conference; while already having the best offence.

Morgan Rielly-Jared Spurgeon
Travis Dermott-Nikita Zaitsev
Andres Borgman-Ron Hainsey

I don't disagree with you, I just don't want to give up Liljegren, more than anything else. Put in a 2019 first, and 2020 second if you need to, to create equal value.

 

[AKL]

I don't disagree with you, I just don't want to give up Liljegren, more than anything else. Put in a 2019 first, and 2020 second if you need to, to create equal value.

Are you considering that the Wild weren’t even interested in the original offer, and sure as hell aren’t interested in a late first and a late second? Or are you only considering what hurts least for Toronto to lose for a high end #2 RD?

 

[Fogelhund]

Are you considering that the Wild weren’t even interested in the original offer, and sure as hell aren’t interested in a late first and a late second? Or are you only considering what hurts least for Toronto to lose for a high end #2 RD?

Well, I don't see an official statement from the Wild, just some fans, and really their opinions in the real work are rather irrelevant aren't they?

I was having a conversation with the prior poster, and feel as though the 1st + 2nd are about worth Liljegren, in his proposal... only dealing with the discussion there.

 

[Bazeek]

Well, I don't see an official statement from the Wild, just some fans, and really their opinions in the real work are rather irrelevant aren't they?

I was having a conversation with the prior poster, and feel as though the 1st + 2nd are about worth Liljegren, in his proposal... only dealing with the discussion there.

Official statement or not, there are clear reasons why the original deal isn't going to work for Minnesota. I guess there's nothing wrong with fine-tuning it if you find that interesting, but it's DOA either way.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You may not like it; but this is the last piece to the puzzle. This deal gives the leafs one of the best defensive groups in the entire eastern conference; while already having the best offence.

Morgan Rielly-Jared Spurgeon
Travis Dermott-Nikita Zaitsev
Andres Borgman-Ron Hainsey

That's a very mediocre defensive group, what are you talking about? 2 guys in the 15-40 range, and an otherwise mediocre bottom-4. Dermott's the only one with real potential to improve there, but we've only seen him dominate other bottom pairings so far. Zaitsev hopefully bounces back from an injured year, but even if he does he's a #3 at best.

Teams with better defenses in the East:

Tampa, Boston, Washington, Columbus, Carolina, arguably Florida and Philly.

This is just re-shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic, adding Spurgeon and removing Gardiner is not enough.

 

[Fogelhund]

Official statement or not, there are clear reasons why the original deal isn't going to work for Minnesota. I guess there's nothing wrong with fine-tuning it if you find that interesting, but it's DOA either way.

That's cool, and was so pages ago, when I was involved in the discussion.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I would be angry as a Leafs fan if that trade happened. I don't see Minny-Toronto as good partners. Call it overvaluing if you want, but most I'd do for either Spurgeon/Dumba from our end is a package including 1st's + prospects, which kills a deal for both sides.

You won’t come close with a deal like late 1st + Kapanen. Especially for Dumba. Or any other top RD across the league.

 

[AKL]

Well, I don't see an official statement from the Wild, just some fans, and really their opinions in the real work are rather irrelevant aren't they?

I was having a conversation with the prior poster, and feel as though the 1st + 2nd are about worth Liljegren, in his proposal... only dealing with the discussion there.

You’re talking about possible packages in a Spurgeon thread on the main trade board of a public hockey forum. If you don’t want opinions on what you post, this isn’t the place for you.

Now, that being said, a 1st and a 2nd may be fair value for Liljegren, but considering he was the most enticing piece in the original proposal which itself really wasn’t enticing, it does nothing to help you acquire Spurgeon.

 

[Fogelhund]

You’re talking about possible packages in a Spurgeon thread on the main trade board of a public hockey forum. If you don’t want opinions on what you post, this isn’t the place for you.

Now, that being said, a 1st and a 2nd may be fair value for Liljegren, but considering he was the most enticing piece in the original proposal which itself really wasn’t enticing, it does nothing to help you acquire Spurgeon.

Which is fine, as if you'd read my first post on this page, you'd clearly see, I said I'd pass on this trade.

 

[Sarge58]

If the Wild are going to trade their #2 Dman to a team that wants an upgrade to their top pair why wouldn't they expect an upgrade to their top line RW or a young C with top line potential?

 

[Devilsrock17]

Well look at the team's that are desperately looking for an upgrade on defense. Devils, Sabres, Red Wings, Maple Leafs,Islanders,Oilers. They should at least check in on him if anything. A sleeper team for me would have to be Winnipeg.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Well look at the team's that are desperately looking for an upgrade on defense. Devils, Sabres, Red Wings, Maple Leafs,Islanders,Oilers. They should at least check in on him if anything. A sleeper team for me would have to be Winnipeg.

Haven’t really discussed with the Devils, Sabres, Red Wings, or Islanders about Spurgeon. The other two have been beaten to death.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Well, I don't see an official statement from the Wild, just some fans, and really their opinions in the real work are rather irrelevant aren't they?

I was having a conversation with the prior poster, and feel as though the 1st + 2nd are about worth Liljegren, in his proposal... only dealing with the discussion there.

".......it's like rain on your wedding day.....a free ride and you've already paid......its the good advice...that you just didn't take.........."

 

[Devilsrock17]

Haven’t really discussed with the Devils, Sabres, Red Wings, or Islanders about Spurgeon. The other two have been beaten to death.

Well that is my point I would have to think the devils should be in on this guy I rather have him then Severson

 

[AKL]

Well look at the team's that are desperately looking for an upgrade on defense. Devils, Sabres, Red Wings, Maple Leafs,Islanders,Oilers. They should at least check in on him if anything. A sleeper team for me would have to be Winnipeg.

Well that is my point I would have to think the devils should be in on this guy I rather have him then Severson

Would love to hear from Red Wings, Isles, and Devils fans.

Any ideas from you?

 

[redwings25]

wings are to far away from winning to pay what it would take to get spurgeon. he would just lower there lottery odds.

 

[firstemperor]

You won’t come close with a deal like late 1st + Kapanen. Especially for Dumba. Or any other top RD across the league.

Yea, which is why I said it would kill a deal for both sides.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Yea, which is why I said it would kill a deal for both sides.

Fair enough.