Sportsnet Rumor: NHL to buy Thrashers and move them to Winnipeg?

[razorsedge]

NHL buying it then flipping it to Winnipeg? Must be the NHL's way of balancing out their losses from the Phoenix gongshow. I wonder if this would lower the selling price to Hulsizer. Thats if this rumor is true of course.

I hope it is.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

NHL buying it then flipping it to Winnipeg? Must be the NHL's way of balancing out their losses from the Phoenix gongshow. I wonder if this would lower the selling price to Hulsizer. Thats if this rumor is true of course.

I hope it is.

The NHL can make more money because they can sell the team for profit and then charge a relocation fee

(I Think)

 

[Jeffrey93]

So....I am supposed to believe that not only have the 28 current NHL owners outside of Atlanta already agreed to buy this team...they have also all agreed on who they will sell it to before they have even bought it?

I don't think it is that absurd of an idea that the league will step in and force something to happen....but why not allow the current Thrashers ownership to sell to who they want to sell to and for how much they want to sell for?

Also, this doesn't seem like something this league would do...they would basically be refusing more money. If the NHL bought this team and it was already decided they would sell to someone willing to move it to Winnipeg...I'd be low-balling big time if I was the supposed buyer.

What benefit is there to the NHL buying the team just to re-sell it?

 

[Jeffrey93]

The NHL can make more money because they can sell the team for profit and then charge a relocation fee

(I Think)

So they're basically jerking around a current owner and stealing what should really be their money.....correct?

 

[razorsedge]

So they're basically jerking around a current owner and stealing what should really be their money.....correct?

Hmmm, that would mean history is repeating itself. I wonder how long till Balsillie swoops in.

 

[CC Chiefs*]

^
You do realize that Bettman isn't that powerful correct?

He is just the public face of league ,,,, BOG controls NHL

That is biggest fallacy I've read. GB and super majority run everything that happens in the NHL.

 

[Evil Doctor]

As rumors go, this is probably the most implausible one I've heard yet. Lets be honest here, Sportsnet has the absolute worst record when it comes to such reporting. I think there are GMs out there feeding them what ever imaginary stuff they can think of off the top of their head just to see if they bite...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

As rumors go, this is probably the most implausible one I've heard yet. Lets be honest here, Sportsnet has the absolute worst record when it comes to such reporting. I think there are GMs out there feeding them what ever imaginary stuff they can think of off the top of their head just to see if they bite...

it'll probably be the most implausible rumor that finally proves to be true

 

[Skobel24]

I'm sure they'll take this news into consideration.

They can have the Manitoba Moose.

 

[Whileee]

The NHL is a joke. The NHL has already told Atlanta to get its "stuff" together or they might move the team. So with PHX they will do anything to keep a team there, but Atlanta gets a threat. Every city, every team, every owner, gets different treatment.

This rumour is quite far "out there", and has been denied directly by Daly. We would do well to consider that.

But if the Atlanta Thrashers are to be sold, it will because the owners want to sell the team to avoid further losses and inject more capital into their ownership group. I think that the situation is much different from the Coyotes and Glendale, so the notion that the NHL has somehow "saved" the Coyotes in Glendale and would therefore do the same is Atlanta is simplistic. First of all, the City of Glendale has been forced to "save" the Coyotes, to the tune of $197 million. If the City of Atlanta is willing to do that for the Thrashers, while covering all operating losses until the NHL can find an owner, then I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL purchased the team and looked for another owner that was willing to take a Hulsizer-type deal in Atlanta. But it seems preposterous to imagine that such a deal would be available to a new owner in Atlanta. The other main difference is that the current owners of the Thrashers also own the Hawks and operate the Phillips Arena. So they already have an "anchor tenant" and there would not be as much ancillary revenue for a new Thrashers owner in Atlanta.

So, I think the real question is whether the current Thrashers owners actually want to sell the team. If not, as they have indicated, this is all a tempest in a teapot. However, if they really want to sell, then it seems to me that the chances of a local sale are even less than the chances have been for the Coyotes. The NHL has already shown that they will not lose a dime to try to keep a team in a market. They didn't do it in Glendale and they won't do it in Atlanta, I'll wager.

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

This rumor is preposterous. I think this may have been floated by Atlanta Spirit themselves to try and bring in new investors or owners for the hockey side of their group. I wouldn't be surprised if they even floated the Winnipeg rumors last year. They certainly did not react in a manner to quell them.

Remember - The Atlanta Hawks (NBA) are drawing horribly right now too even though they're in better shape than The Thrashers. Lately, The Thrashers are outdrawing The Hawks! If Atlanta is selling The Thrashers, then they're selling The Hawks and Philips Arena too.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I doubt that this happens

it would mean the nhl would be admitting defeat for part of the southern expansion and it would turn the heat up and rumour mill on a few other teams

 

[peter sullivan]

As rumors go, this is probably the most implausible one I've heard yet. Lets be honest here, Sportsnet has the absolute worst record when it comes to such reporting. I think there are GMs out there feeding them what ever imaginary stuff they can think of off the top of their head just to see if they bite...

i was just thinking that this rumour is actually the most plausible one ive heard in this whole saga....its like the creator's disk from tron that aligns the power of the grid allowing them to transport to the other side...

my guess is that in hindsight this rumour will explain everything.

 

[bodybreak]

Winnipeg Thrashers... How does that sound?

Actually... they already exist:


This rumour is a bit strange... not sure why the NHL would buy any team and move it to Winnipeg when it's been well documented that there's already an ownership group in Winnipeg willing to buy a team... Is there some reason why the NHL would have to serve as the middleman in this particular case??

As far as the BOG goes, Sens owner Eugene Melnyk name-dropped Winnipeg back in a Sept. 2009 interview that started off about Balsillie approaching him about buying the Senators, wanting to move them to Hamilton.

Melnyk appeared confident the Steel City could have landed an NHL franchise by negotiating through the right channels.

“I would have given him a ton of advice on how to do it properly, and one of them is not taking a bulldozer and going through the door. It would have been so easy. But, you know, mistakes are made, and now everybody’s gotta live with it.”

He made reference to the city that lost its NHL team to Phoenix in 1996.

“If somebody came and said, you know, Winnipeg — I’d love to buy a franchise and start a team up in Winnipeg. You know what? They’d listen.

“They’d say: ‘Okay, what are we gonna do about the stadium? It’s only 15,000 seats. Can we expand it? Can we do this?’

“You work the problem that you may have, and you have to have the financial wherewithal. You definitely have a fanbase out there.”

The Manitoba capital made headlines in May, when the Globe and Mail reported that True North Sports and Entertainment Ltd. — which owns the American Hockey League’s Manitoba Moose, and a downtown arena constructed since the Jets departure — were in talks with the NHL about getting a team.

http://iceveins.wordpress.com/2009/09/19/balsillie-lawyer-wanted-senators-in-hamilton-owner/

As well, I have a source who does work for True North (TNSE) who says the MTS Centre was set up for a press conference prior to the COG vote that gave the Coyotes $25 million... Apparently the league believed that vote would not pass, at which time TNSE would have announced that the team was moving to Winnipeg... so the BOG would appear to be onside with Winnipeg landing a team... I just don't see why the NHL would first have to buy said team (Coyotes, Thrashers, expansion or whoever) and then, presumably, flip it to the Winnipeg group.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

So....I am supposed to believe that not only have the 28 current NHL owners outside of Atlanta already agreed to buy this team...they have also all agreed on who they will sell it to before they have even bought it?

I don't think it is that absurd of an idea that the league will step in and force something to happen....but why not allow the current Thrashers ownership to sell to who they want to sell to and for how much they want to sell for?
...

What benefit is there to the NHL buying the team just to re-sell it?

What did we learn from the Moyes-Balsillie attempted transaction and Coyotes bankruptcy case, Jeffrey? That Moyes owned the right to an NHL franchise in the Phoenix market place only; that Moyes could not sell the Coyotes for relocation to another market without NHL approval; that the NHL considers other markets to be the NHL`s opportunities.

It is similar with Atlanta. The Thrashers ownership owns the rights to an NHL franchise in the Atlanta market place. The Thrashers are not likely worth that much in the Atlanta market place. Can the Atlanta Spirit Group turn around and sell the team for relocation anywhere? Perhaps not. They own the rights to an NHL franchise in Atlanta. Hence, the NHL could buy the Thrashers from Atlanta Spirit for the going market rate in Atlanta and sell the team for relocation and make a profit on the flip. By doing so, the NHL would underline to all owners that the NHL`s collective ownership controls and profits from relocation of NHL franchises, not the individual owners.

GHOST

 

[bodybreak]

Well that pretty much answers my question then... thanks GHOST!

 

[AllByDesign]

Can't light a match around here, eh?

 

[MAROONSRoad]

This rumour is a bit strange... not sure why the NHL would buy any team and move it to Winnipeg when it's been well documented that there's already an ownership group in Winnipeg willing to buy a team... Is there some reason why the NHL would have to serve as the middleman in this particular case??
...

As well, I have a source who does work for True North (TNSE) who says the MTS Centre was set up for a press conference prior to the COG vote that gave the Coyotes $25 million... Apparently the league believed that vote would not pass, at which time TNSE would have announced that the team was moving to Winnipeg... so the BOG would appear to be onside with Winnipeg landing a team... I just don't see why the NHL would first have to buy said team (Coyotes, Thrashers, expansion or whoever) and then, presumably, flip it to the Winnipeg group.

See what I wrote above. If there is any truth to this rumour, I would think the reason for the flip would be twofold: a) so that the NHL can profit from the difference between the current value of a franchise in Atlanta and the amount TNSE is willing to pay for a franchise in Winnipeg (say $130 MM in Atlanta and $170 MM in Winnipeg: NHL nets $50 MM) and b) to underscore what the NHL fought for in the Phoenix bankruptcy case: that the NHL`s franchises are granted for specific territories only; that any new territories are the exclusive market opportunity of the NHL; that existing owners can not sell their teams for relocation to other territories without the NHL`s approval; that the NHL as a whole should benefit from the difference between the value of a franchise in an existing territory vs. a relocation territory.

GHOST

 

[peter sullivan]

i am not sure that the NHL being the middle man is about flipping it for a profit as much as it is maintaining control....

by taking the team they do not set the precedent of owners selling to other markets and they control when and where it goes....and for how much.

it allows them to manage two failing franchises at the same time.....instead of having phoenix and atlanta searching for owners, the NHL can have a single strategy for both.....by owning both teams they can make promises and set timelines as they please....if we have learned anything in phoenix its that the NHL likes to have control.

i have a feeling that this is why there has been such pressure in quebec all of a sudden to build an arena.....we know the NHL has a buyer in winnipeg for one of these teams....if matty fails in glendale they will need another....i wouldnt be surprised if quebecor has known about this for a while.

 

[Jeffrey93]

What did we learn from the Moyes-Balsillie attempted transaction and Coyotes bankruptcy case, Jeffrey? That Moyes owned the right to an NHL franchise in the Phoenix market place only; that Moyes could not sell the Coyotes for relocation to another market without NHL approval; that the NHL considers other markets to be the NHL`s opportunities.

It is similar with Atlanta. The Thrashers ownership owns the rights to an NHL franchise in the Atlanta market place. The Thrashers are not likely worth that much in the Atlanta market place. Can the Atlanta Spirit Group turn around and sell the team for relocation anywhere? Perhaps not. They own the rights to an NHL franchise in Atlanta. Hence, the NHL could buy the Thrashers from Atlanta Spirit for the going market rate in Atlanta and sell the team for relocation and make a profit on the flip. By doing so, the NHL would underline to all owners that the NHL`s collective ownership controls and profits from relocation of NHL franchises, not the individual owners.

GHOST

Require approval of relocation applications first then. Reloaction fees are to compensate the NHL for the difference in the value of markets.

So the NHL will buy the Thrashers for what? $160M? Then turn around and sell them for $250M in a different market?

My point is that if buyers knew this was their chance to purchase a team to put in the market they want, with league approval, they would pay Atlanta Spirit over $200M for the team and then pay the league a relocation fee as well.

But, whatever...the NHL can screw over an exiting Owner if they want to I guess. This 'rumour' still would see the NHL making less than they possibly could. This is why I have always maintained that the NHL should be proactively studying potential markets. They could buy the Thrashers and open it up for bidding...they know the locations they are willing to accept already...so the highest bid from one of those locations gets the team and all the current NHL owners get a nice return on their investment in a ridiculously short period of time.

If the NHL buys the Thrashers for $160M....if I were TNSE I wouldn't offer a dime over $160M. I'd ask them to justify an increase in the cost when the team is moving to a market that is barely over a tenth the size of the existing market and has an arena that is 20% smaller. On top of all that...it appears the NHL (if we believe this hogwash rumour) has already made up their mind to sell to TNSE. So the NHL loses all leverage to command the enormous bucks they could for a portable team.

That alone is reason to dismiss this rumour as fairy tale. I don't care how badly Bettman or whoever in the NHL might want a team to return to Winnipeg (I'd bet the majority don't care one bit either way) they would be fools to limit their buyers to one. The NHL would at least need the realistic threat that they would be quite willing to sell to somebody else...this rumour handcuffs the NHL and gives all the leverage to TNSE. The NHL might be dumb...but they aren't THAT dumb.

 

[Jeffrey93]

i am not sure that the NHL being the middle man is about flipping it for a profit as much as it is maintaining control....

by taking the team they do not set the precedent of owners selling to other markets and they control when and where it goes....and for how much.

it allows them to manage two failing franchises at the same time.....instead of having phoenix and atlanta searching for owners, the NHL can have a single strategy for both.....by owning both teams they can make promises and set timelines as they please....if we have learned anything in phoenix its that the NHL likes to have control.

i have a feeling that this is why there has been such pressure in quebec all of a sudden to build an arena.....we know the NHL has a buyer in winnipeg for one of these teams....if matty fails in glendale they will need another....i wouldnt be surprised if quebecor has known about this for a while.

I suppose...anyone buying the team would be moving it under this scenario...so the NHL could look at their relocation application before approving the sale. It's not as if the Atlanta Spirit can or would try to sell the team to somebody that intends to move it to a 'undetermined location'. The league would simply not approve the sale.

The NHL can keep all their control and still let Atlanta Spirit sell the team for an inflated price before it is moved and the league gets their relocation fee.

About Quebec....I'd think it would be easier to find another buyer than it would be to get an arena built in any timely manner. Right now the NHL has several options available without Quebec City. I really can't believe somebody from the NHL would be letting people in Quebec City (Quebecor, Mayor, etc.) know that they should hurry up and build a rink because the NHL has plans to purchase teams and relocate them.

 

[htpwn]

I think the NHL might be very interested in bringing TNSE into the fold for the sole reason of the influence that David Thomson possesses. Aside from some corporate owners, no other owner in professional sports that I can think of has more. He would immediately become the most wealthy individual involved in North American professional sports and is very well connected in the financial and media industry which could benefit the NHL going forward.

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

I think the NHL might be very interested in bringing TNSE into the fold for the sole reason of the influence that David Thomson possesses. Aside from some corporate owners, no other owner in professional sports that I can think of has more. He would immediately become the most wealthy individual involved in North American professional sports and is very well connected in the financial and media industry which could benefit the NHL going forward.

This has always been the main issue. Not whether or not Atlanta should survive. The NHL will do what it takes to create the best partnership with Thomson. If it means The Thrashers die in Atlanta, the NHL will take the hit. I think they'd let it happen to NYI too, or even NJ. But the fact is Atlanta has the best management and young players in place of the vulnerable teams. If I wanted to buy a franchise and move it, it would 100% be the Thrashers.

 

[Whileee]

See what I wrote above. If there is any truth to this rumour, I would think the reason for the flip would be twofold: a) so that the NHL can profit from the difference between the current value of a franchise in Atlanta and the amount TNSE is willing to pay for a franchise in Winnipeg (say $130 MM in Atlanta and $170 MM in Winnipeg: NHL nets $50 MM) and b) to underscore what the NHL fought for in the Phoenix bankruptcy case: that the NHL`s franchises are granted for specific territories only; that any new territories are the exclusive market opportunity of the NHL; that existing owners can not sell their teams for relocation to other territories without the NHL`s approval; that the NHL as a whole should benefit from the difference between the value of a franchise in an existing territory vs. a relocation territory.

GHOST

I would add that it might be a timing issue. If the Atlanta owners are desperate to sell, and the TNSE group want to prepare earlier than the end of the season, then it makes sense for the NHL to make the initial purchase, maintain some plausible deniability that the team is relocating for the rest of this season, and then complete the sales transaction after the season. I think the situation with the New Orleans Hornets is instructive. The NBA had to step in to purchase the team in the middle of this season because the current owners were desperate to sell. Now, the NBA talks about finding a new owner to keep the team in New Orleans, but nobody will be surprised if they sell the team for relocation to another city.

I don't know if the Atlanta Spirit group is desperate, but there have been articles indicating that they have been seeking new investors for two years without success.

 

[Whileee]

Require approval of relocation applications first then. Reloaction fees are to compensate the NHL for the difference in the value of markets.

So the NHL will buy the Thrashers for what? $160M? Then turn around and sell them for $250M in a different market?

My point is that if buyers knew this was their chance to purchase a team to put in the market they want, with league approval, they would pay Atlanta Spirit over $200M for the team and then pay the league a relocation fee as well.

But, whatever...the NHL can screw over an exiting Owner if they want to I guess. This 'rumour' still would see the NHL making less than they possibly could. This is why I have always maintained that the NHL should be proactively studying potential markets. They could buy the Thrashers and open it up for bidding...they know the locations they are willing to accept already...so the highest bid from one of those locations gets the team and all the current NHL owners get a nice return on their investment in a ridiculously short period of time.

If the NHL buys the Thrashers for $160M....if I were TNSE I wouldn't offer a dime over $160M. I'd ask them to justify an increase in the cost when the team is moving to a market that is barely over a tenth the size of the existing market and has an arena that is 20% smaller. On top of all that...it appears the NHL (if we believe this hogwash rumour) has already made up their mind to sell to TNSE. So the NHL loses all leverage to command the enormous bucks they could for a portable team.

That alone is reason to dismiss this rumour as fairy tale. I don't care how badly Bettman or whoever in the NHL might want a team to return to Winnipeg (I'd bet the majority don't care one bit either way) they would be fools to limit their buyers to one. The NHL would at least need the realistic threat that they would be quite willing to sell to somebody else...this rumour handcuffs the NHL and gives all the leverage to TNSE. The NHL might be dumb...but they aren't THAT dumb.

So, we're back to your thesis about the <1% chance for TNSE and Winnipeg, are we?

The NHL purchased the Coyotes more than a year ago, and yet whenever the idea of selling the team in a non-Glendale sale they have confirmed that their intention is to sell the team to TNSE for relocation to Winnipeg. If they have a bunch of big-time offers in their hip pocket to relocate the Coyotes to another market that they are contemplating, why have they insisted on specifying that their intention is to complete a sale to TNSE if Glendale falls through? I suppose it is all an elaborate hoax being perpetrated on David Thomson and Mark Chipman, not to mention all of the NHL fans to whom they have revealed their plans. They have been very sneaky about this, even mentioning Winnipeg as their desired destination in internal emails about the Phoenix saga.

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the NHL is very impressed with Thomson and Chipman and their TNSE operation and would like them to have a franchise? Have you ever considered that the NHL might see some future opportunities on the media side from having one of the world's foremost media company owners as part of the NHL "club"? Stranger things have happened.