Sportsnet interview with Bob Goodenow.

[Taranis_24]

What would be nice is if someone of respect in the media/political would come out and say 'ok'. Both of you show up at a designated place and time and each bring a proposal to the table and talk. This garbage about who calls who first is stupid. Let someone else set the time and place and both of you just show up. Of course, there will be a stand off of who flies in first, or who enters the room first.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20041104_152246_5304

Click to read more...

 

[Motown Beatdown]

It's pretty sad two very successful people like Goodenow and Bettman are acting like a couple of 9yr olds. We fans debates who's at fault, who's right or wrong. But i think it's clear were wasting our time and energy. They dont care about us, the die-hards, let alone the casual fan. Maybe the owners and players need a history lesson, look how long it took baseball fans to come back. You would think the owners who also own MLB teams would be advising the other owners about this. But common sense doesn't seem to work with these groups.

 

[triggrman]

This is the problem. The league wants to tie salaries to revenue like every other business in the free world but the union want even consider it. I see nothing wrong with a luxury tax based on league revenues. This league is sinking and the union will not except it.

Clearly they are all based on a formula percentage, you can't deny that and he's come back and said this is it.
It's unfortunate. It's not a game of chicken, its serious negotiations but unfortunately the attack that he has taken, is one that is going to be a real problem for the entire sport and the industry.

So any system whether it be a hard cap or soft cap or luxury tax is not exceptable if the league uses a percentage of revenues to set the amount to the union.

 

[Taranis_24]

And yet today Northwest Airline pilots are accepting a 15% cut across the board on salaries. Doing it to save the airlines and even the highest paid pilot makes 1/9th the average NHL salary. Increase the rollback to 15% set a softcap with a tax and implement the changes to arbitration and entry level contracts and there you go. What's the problem.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

This is the problem. The league wants to tie salaries to revenue like every other business in the free world but the union want even consider it. I see nothing wrong with a luxury tax based on league revenues. This league is sinking and the union will not except it.

So any system whether it be a hard cap or soft cap or luxury tax is not exceptable if the league uses a percentage of revenues to set the amount to the union.

There seems to be some kind of contradiction in the players message..

They don't believe the numbers are true, they don't seem to believe the league is in bad shape but yet... they don't want to tie their salaries to revenues. If the league is in good shape, why not tie salary to revenues ? C'mon Goodenow, why not ? I dare you ! Chiiiiiicken, chicken, chicken, chickchickchickchickeeeen ...

 

[gary69]

And yet today Northwest Airline pilots are accepting a 15% cut across the board on salaries. Doing it to save the airlines and even the highest paid pilot makes 1/9th the average NHL salary. Increase the rollback to 15% set a softcap with a tax and implement the changes to arbitration and entry level contracts and there you go. What's the problem.

Free market is the problem, the airline pilots can always freely find out what they would get from a competitor and sign a contract with them, if they want to.

They are not artificially drafted by one company they are stuck with for a major part of their prime working career and thus prevented for years to earn their true market value by some communist non-free-market restrictions...that's the problem if you wish to compare NHL hockey market to some other markets.

 

[Taranis_24]

Free market is the problem, the airline pilots can always freely find out what they would get from a competitor and sign a contract with them, if they want to.

They are not artificially drafted by one company they are stuck with for a major part of their prime working career and thus prevented for years to earn their true market value by some communist non-free-market restrictions...that's the problem if you wish to compare NHL hockey market to some other markets.

Wasn't trying to compare them out all. Just showing that some people are willing to compromise to make their particular company strong. The only comparison, but tag it as you would like. The Players going overseas are playing for owners now just as rich as those in the NHL but are willing to play for them at significant discounted salaries. Why support those owners and overseas league but not the league here at home. Another thing sense I'm venting. The NHLPA needs to stop the Eagleson comparisons, it was over 10 years ago. Even some of the owners are different. It's like holding Pres. Bush responsible not only for his mistakes but those of Carter as well. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Slats432]

There is one proposal that isn't a salary cap, most certainly...and that is this one...

"A system premised on the Centralized Negotiation of Player Contracts, where the League would negotiate individual player contracts, either with players and their agents or with the Union directly. "

That is still a market system, and why hasn't the Union said they were interested in a Free Market system?

 

[Onion Boy]

This is the problem. The league wants to tie salaries to revenue like every other business in the free world but the union want even consider it. I see nothing wrong with a luxury tax based on league revenues. This league is sinking and the union will not except it.

So any system whether it be a hard cap or soft cap or luxury tax is not exceptable if the league uses a percentage of revenues to set the amount to the union.

My understanding is that the NHL hasn't brought anything to the table other than a hard cap. No mention of a soft cap or luxury tax system, which IMO are more favorable to BOTH sides than a hard cap (luxury taxes generate revenue that can be redistributed to the teams that need it).

Of course, the owners who'd have to pay the luxury tax wouldn't like it which is precisely why the only policy the owners can stand unified on is that of a hard cap. It's ashame most fans can't see through this.

 

[Slats432]

My understanding is that the NHL hasn't brought anything to the table other than a hard cap. No mention of a soft cap or luxury tax system, which IMO are more favorable to BOTH sides than a hard cap (luxury taxes generate revenue that can be redistributed to the teams that need it).

Of course, the owners who'd have to pay the luxury tax wouldn't like it which is precisely why the only policy the owners can stand unified on is that of a hard cap. It's ashame most fans can't see through this.

Read my post above. The league did offer to negotiate all contracts on behalf of the teams. That isn't a salary cap.

 

[djhn579]

Wasn't trying to compare them out all. Just showing that some people are willing to compromise to make their particular company strong. The only comparison, but tag it as you would like. The Players going overseas are playing for owners now just as rich as those in the NHL but are willing to play for them at significant discounted salaries. Why support those owners and overseas league but not the league here at home. Another thing sense I'm venting. The NHLPA needs to stop the Eagleson comparisons, it was over 10 years ago. Even some of the owners are different. It's like holding Pres. Bush responsible not only for his mistakes but those of Carter as well. Doesn't make sense.

I read not too long ago that there are 22 different owners since the 1994 lockout...

 

[PecaFan]

Free market is the problem, the airline pilots can always freely find out what they would get from a competitor and sign a contract with them, if they want to.

They are not artificially drafted by one company they are stuck with for a major part of their prime working career and thus prevented for years to earn their true market value by some communist non-free-market restrictions...that's the problem if you wish to compare NHL hockey market to some other markets.

And hockey players are perfectly free to sign with dozens of leagues in North America and around the world.

This "communist" non-free-market stuff is *crap*.

 

[Lexicon Devil]

This is the problem. The league wants to tie salaries to revenue like every other business in the free world but the union want even consider it.

What are you talking about? What other industries have salary caps? The business model followed by "every other business in the free world" is alot closer to what the players are proposing than the owners.

I see nothing wrong with a luxury tax based on league revenues. This league is sinking and the union will not except it.

Out of the two sides, the players are the side that's signalled a willingness to talk about a luxury tax system. The owners have come out against it.

 

[Taranis_24]

Out of the two sides, the players are the side that's signalled a willingness to talk about a luxury tax system. The owners have come out against it.

An the owners have said the are willing to talk about a cost certainty system and the players have come out against it. 2 sides Lexicon 2 sides....

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

This is the problem. The league wants to tie salaries to revenue like every other business in the free world .

huh ? in what business does the employer say we will pay x% of our revenue to the employee ?

i run a multi million dollar business and i dont base my employees wages on my revenue, i base it on what it would cost me to replace them and the value the bring.

besides, sports is nothing like the real business world. most people dont have the specialized unique skills that demand high wages like pro athletes.

you clearly have no idea.

dr

 

[me2]

DR most NHLers are paid like managment not like average joes. Plenty of management types have economic performance based clauses.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

DR most NHLers are paid like managment not like average joes. Plenty of management types have economic performance based clauses.

i dont disagree with that, but thats not what the poster was saying. the poster "like every other business in the free world ".

its just not true. almost no one is paid like that. some people are paid based on the performance of the company, but that perfomance is not always measured in "pure" dollars.

dr

 

[joechip]

And hockey players are perfectly free to sign with dozens of leagues in North America and around the world.

This "communist" non-free-market stuff is *crap*.

Amen!! I knew that if I read enough of this thread someone else would get to this point b4 me. Thanks Peca.

Ta,

 

[I in the Eye]

i dont disagree with that, but thats not what the poster was saying. the poster "like every other business in the free world ".

its just not true. almost no one is paid like that. some people are paid based on the performance of the company, but that perfomance is not always measured in "pure" dollars.

dr

I've long thought that hockey players should be compensated with the same salary structure as investment analysts...

http://www.thestreet.com/markets/analystrankings/961248.html

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I've long thought that hockey players should be compensated with the same salary structure as investment analysts...

http://www.thestreet.com/markets/analystrankings/961248.html

Intertesting article .. and in particular, thought this could bring some context.

If the pace doesn't pick up again and trading volume doesn't revive, Wall Street may have to dial back on hiring.

funny though, i dont see the owners of wall street asking for a salary cap.

 

[me2]

Intertesting article .. and in particular, thought this could bring some context.



funny though, i dont see the owners of wall street asking for a salary cap.

Small can compete against large on wall street. All you need is a computer. Size and payroll are much less of an issue. I'm sure if a hockey team could put up a 100 point season with 5 players on roster even the weakest teams wouldn't need help.