Spezza and Sochi Olympics

[Legend Killer]

Also, has Spezza ever won anything in his career?

Maybe thats a consideration?

 

[Indrew]

Spengler Cup baby yeah.

 

[YNWA14]

Also, has Spezza ever won anything in his career?

Maybe thats a consideration?

It's his fault entirely that he hasn't played on stacked teams like some other players? Or when he was on a great team there was a lockout, and after that an even more stacked team in the Ducks took them out?

He was the only player to score against Russia twice in the World Championships but his teammates couldn't follow up.

Maybe he's one of the most unlucky players in the world in terms of opportunities and circumstances. Put him on the Hawks team that won the SC or the gold medal team that won 3 years ago and I bet he comes out with both team awards.

 

[Legend Killer]

It's his fault entirely that he hasn't played on stacked teams like some other players? Or when he was on a great team there was a lockout, and after that an even more stacked team in the Ducks took them out?

He was the only player to score against Russia twice in the World Championships but his teammates couldn't follow up.

Maybe he's one of the most unlucky players in the world in terms of opportunities and circumstances. Put him on the Hawks team that won the SC or the gold medal team that won 3 years ago and I bet he comes out with both team awards.

Im not blaming him or putting it on him... Im just saying, if they consider all things equal, why would they take the guy who always comes up short?

No WJHC gold, no WC's, no Cup, no Calder Cup... Long history of not winning...

 

[YNWA14]

Im not blaming him or putting it on him... Im just saying, if they consider all things equal, why would they take the guy who always comes up short?

No WJHC gold, no WC's, no Cup, no Calder Cup... Long history of not winning...

Yeah but it just sucks that all of that is put on him when, a lot of the time, he is the one coming up big in big games but the rest of the team can't follow up. While stars can have a huge impact ultimately it is a team game.

 

[ybsad]

Im not blaming him or putting it on him... Im just saying, if they consider all things equal, why would they take the guy who always comes up short?

No WJHC gold, no WC's, no Cup, no Calder Cup... Long history of not winning...

With all due respect, Those are all team trophies!

 

[TSA0402]

Spezza is usually shortchanged, but its hard to argue with the selections. It was easy enough to say a prime Thornton/Getzlaf were as good. Now with Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Toews/Bergeron(intangibles) or even Tavares. Its unfortunate, any other country, and it would be a non issue.

 

[Legend Killer]

With all due respect, Those are all team trophies!

Thanks tips.

Do you hear alot of chatter at trade deadline time to bring in more Stanley Cup losers? No. Regardless of being a team sport or not. Winners are held in higher regard than those who do not.

There are Always exceptions...

 

[Rumcajs]

Smith is Canadian, no? And Miller omitted or forgotten?

Milo's gonna be there, Gonch too I'd reckon.

Dagauvins, Regin, DaCosta all have their teams play in the qualifying games tomorrow, too.

Woops for some reason I thought Smith was American. Miller on the other hand might get a look but the way he is going...he wont be playing.

Good point about our Europeans a well.

Gotta love watching Latvia trying to upset Russia

 

[HavlatMach9]

It's his fault entirely that he hasn't played on stacked teams like some other players?

Like getting gold on team Canada actually means something about a player. You can select at random from a pool of top 50 Canadian players, and they'd be favorites to win any tournament.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

It's his fault entirely that he hasn't played on stacked teams like some other players? Or when he was on a great team there was a lockout, and after that an even more stacked team in the Ducks took them out?

He was the only player to score against Russia twice in the World Championships but his teammates couldn't follow up.

Maybe he's one of the most unlucky players in the world in terms of opportunities and circumstances. Put him on the Hawks team that won the SC or the gold medal team that won 3 years ago and I bet he comes out with both team awards.

Here's the thing.

Played in Bingo and got the scoring title, team went out in first round afterward.
Had a great run with a beautiful team here in 2007, got to the finals and couldn't get out from under Niedermayer and Pronger.
When Alfredsson was injured early that playoff year, Spezza didn't take charge.
This past season, a lot of the time you wondered where he was against the Rangers outside of the game-winner. He wasn't visible in game 7.
Never won in the OHL either.

Don't get me wrong, I don't rail against him anymore and I did pick him over Toews in that poll, but Spezza has a limited toolbox. Now, that's a toolbox full of offense but when pressured he has a lot of trouble, whether it's because his skating stride doesn't allow him to liberate himself, or whether he can't fight free of checkers...who knows.
The intangibles aren't there. People say he's a leader on the Senators but that seems like one of those homespun stories like that we were one goal way from the finals (The game was 3-2, so we needed to tie (one goal) then score in OT (two goals) ) or that Redden had the best first pass in the league.

If you're a leader then you LEAD your team to glory, you LEAD them to deep playoff runs and you are the team's best player in the crunch. Can that really be said of Jason? In the 2007 run Alfie was possessed. In the early 2000s runs we had a fantastic winger corps and deep defense. Why, as an Olympic selection committee would you take Spezza over Toews (proven winner), Crosby (proven winner), Richard (proven winner), Tavares (proven winner), the list goes on.

He's a good player...I enjoyed when Pierre Turgeon was captain of Les Canadiens but deep down I knew Turgeon had an empty spot where his heart should have been. Spezza doesn't have that issue, but if he IS going to be our captain then we need a Dustin Brown type on his wings because Spezza won't do it on his own. And with his back problems...it would really be unfortunate if our captain was on the IR more often than not.

 

[HavlatMach9]

An interesting story. Doughty > Karlsson cause Karlsson didn't win Cup. Don't get me wrong, Karlsson is a good player, but Doughty has won everything. Even though Karlsson is a league above him, even though Karlsson isn't just a good player, like Spezza isn't just a good player.

Spezza would have won a cup if Ottawa picked the best players for free agency, went right up to the cap with a ton of ELC contracts, or be on a team where Crosby scores a golden goal. Toews has played for BEST teams AND had luck.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

What Mr Writer said



Probably meant offensively

Lee Versage and Shean Donovan pretty much admitted they doctored the footaeg and that he said "offensively" when an emailer called them on it. They wouldn't even read my QUALCOMP for Ottawa centres email either. Just the way Lee and Shean were carrying on made it glaringly obvious the footage was doctored.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

An interesting story. Doughty > Karlsson cause Karlsson didn't win Cup. Don't get me wrong, Karlsson is a good player, but Doughty has won everything. Even though Karlsson is a league above him, even though Karlsson isn't just a good player, like Spezza isn't just a good player.

Spezza would have won a cup if Ottawa picked the best players for free agency, went right up to the cap with a ton of ELC contracts, or be on a team where Crosby scores a golden goal. Toews has played for BEST teams AND had luck.

Karlsson is going to have to bring this team on a deep playoff run eventually.
You're actually making my case for me without knowing it, Karlsson didn't win with Sweden at Worlds, was limited to a point or two in last year's playoffs and probably won't be winning with Sweden at the Olympics.

Spezza had his chance in 2007. In fact, every time you're in the playoffs you have a chance.

Eventually, you have to **** or get off the pot. No one considers you the "best" unless you can win in the most demanding time and that's the playoffs; the Norris is a fantastic honor for Erik but now he has to take the next step and that's playoff success.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

He's not good enough considering the competition he'd face at the centreman position. I love Spezza but there are some way better players than him to play at centre.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Karlsson is going to have to bring this team on a deep playoff run eventually.

So if I'm not wrong, Doughty > Karlsson? Really? We should be lucky Hasek got an easy cup with Detroit or otherwise would never be the best goalie.

He's not good enough considering the competition he'd face at the centreman position. I love Spezza but there are some way better players than him to play at centre.

Not better, but players who play a more checking role than Spezza on a third line. Team Canada believes you need those types of players to shut other teams down, but I believe in going with the best. Both are right when Canada has easily the best pool, so even if they are wrong, they will win. I don't have confidence in team Canada after the failure in 06 and 10 was close.

 

[Legend Killer]

So if I'm not wrong, Doughty > Karlsson? Really?

Yes... That's exactly what everyone is trying to say...

 

[Dysentery]

Lee Versage and Shean Donovan pretty much admitted they doctored the footaeg and that he said "offensively" when an emailer called them on it. They wouldn't even read my QUALCOMP for Ottawa centres email either. Just the way Lee and Shean were carrying on made it glaringly obvious the footage was doctored.

Thats funny, but quite a random prank. I mean out of all the pranks in the world they randomly do this??

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So if I'm not wrong, Doughty > Karlsson? Really? We should be lucky Hasek got an easy cup with Detroit or otherwise would never be the best goalie.

Not better, but players who play a more checking role than Spezza on a third line. Team Canada believes you need those types of players to shut other teams down, but I believe in going with the best. Both are right when Canada has easily the best pool, so even if they are wrong, they will win. I don't have confidence in team Canada after the failure in 06 and 10 was close.

The 2010 olympics was close to being a failure? I don't follow to the school of thought that "it's gold or bust", that's zealotry.

 

[HavlatMach9]

I don't follow to the school of thought that "it's gold or bust", that's zealotry.

For Canada it is. Stamkos was left off that team. Canada rebounded after a very shaky start, overtime win vs the Swiss and a loss to USA in the pool round. Again I don't agree with their decision, but it's difficult to be wrong when you have the best.

 

[YNWA14]

I would just like to point out that things like QUALCOMP don't determine how good defensively a player is. It's the same thing as last year -- Spezza could easily be our best defensive forward but we don't want him being used in the best defensive situations. Why? Because he's easily our best offensive player and we have other players that can play the defensive game. Therefore, why use him defensively (which he's good at) when he can be used offensively where we are lacking? Think about it.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue this anymore. Spezza has earned a spot but he probably won't get one. I hope he comes back after injury and lights the league up as he usually does and maybe leads us to something unexpected in the post season.

Also referencing last year as a shot against Spezza? Seriously? He put this team on his back and carried us into the playoffs while being our leading scorer (IIRC) in the playoffs, and playing actually quite well. He didn't look that great because of the type of game the Rangers play but he had 5 points in 7 games and was a +2 in a series we lost. Our great leader Alfredsson had 2 points in 4 games and was a -3. I know, +/- means nothing but Spezza was great in that series but everyone was smothered offensively. They played a 5 man collapse in their own zone very difficult to look good offensively...meanwhile he was very solid defensively.

 

[Max Power]

I've always been a fan of Spezza. Anybody that says he does not or has not deserved to be picked based on his play with Sens has no clue what they're talking about

Saying that I have my own theory why he is not picked above other players. Spezza always volunteers for WC each year. Every time I've watched him I find his game in that tournament underwhelming. He still gets points but I don't find his game to be at the same level. I think Spezza takes to much time to mesh with his line-mates or/and different systems. This unfortunately does not work in his favor in short tournaments. WC is a big showcase for hockey Canada to look at Olympic hopefuls and they may see the same thing.

 

[Laphroaig]

Spezza was never going to be on that team regardless of his health status. There's simply far too many better options. The Sportsnet website had nine of their experts (some more expert than others) choose the next Canadian Olympic team. Not one of the nine put Spezza on their team. Heatley was also shut out in all nine teams. I like Spezza but nothing short of a terrorist attack at the all-star game could convince me that he belongs on our Olympic team.

 

[65isthenew11]

 

[Nebraska17]

Spezza isn't competing with Getzlaf, Bergeron, Toews, Mike Richards and some of the other names mentioned here.

If he plays, he'll be the second line centre, behind Sidney Crosby (who some people in this thread may think isn't quite on Spezza's level).

So, he has to be better than John Tavares, Steven Stamkos, Jamie Benn, Joe Thornton, Matt Duchene, Claude Giroux, and others. Is he above some of those? Sure. But not all of them.