Spezza and Sochi Olympics

[YNWA14]

See above.

Also, Toews is a better goal scorer.

Also, sorry, but you're clueless if you think Spezza is anywhere near Toews defensively. Not just in the defensive zone, but in terms of being responsible all over the ice (turnovers and proper positioning).

Toews never had linemates as good as Alfredsson and Heatley. Not even close. Spezza scored more because of that and because scoring was just higher in general... Regular Season scoring also doesn't mean he'll produce more in the Olympics either obviously

You love statistics:

Since 06/07 - Jason Spezza has 180 goals in 428 games.
Since 07/08 - Jonathan Toews has 152 goals in 371 games.

Crunch the numbers on those and get back to me.

Yeah...Spezza scored more because he was on a line with Alfredsson and Heatley. I mean, Toews hasn't had the benefit of playing with Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Keith and Campbell at all, right? Not to mention when Spezza outpaced him last year it was because Spezza had way better line-mates.

If you compare the quality of teams that they have both had to play over the time above too the offensive gap becomes wider.

I mean, and your point about Toews ramping it up when the going gets tough really shows over Spezza I mean with his 50 points in 52 playoff games being WAY BETTER than Spezza's 51 points in 53 games. I get it though...he has a gold medal (on one of the most stacked teams ever at the olympics) and he won a Stanley Cup (on one of the most stacked teams in recent memory in the NHL). Therefore he must be better!

How much do you actually watch of Toews? Really? Maybe you should pay more attention to the guy that is about 100x more talented and has actually started to apply himself defensively (and it shows, a lot). Your bias can't see through that though.

I'd have to say Towes over Spezza each and everytime 10 times out of 10.

And your earlier selection of Methot on d (even if it is as an injury replacement) Not a chance! I wouldn't watch that fiasco if that's the way Hockey Canada wants to go.

I'm glad you would takes Toews over Spezza. He's not the better player though. Also Methot has been picked for Team Canada twice already recently and he's likely on his way to a career year in Ottawa. He's still fairly young...and he'd just be an injury replacement.

 

[Smash88]

Didn't they say thanks but no thanks for the World Championships last year?

That should say it all..

 

[OgieO]

He was fantastic with Tavares at the Spengler Cup, so I hope he gets considered. I think those two could be a dynamite 2nd line.

But he won't. Unless he comes back and leads the Sens on a deep playoff run. Here's hoping.

 

[Dysentery]

Didn't they say thanks but no thanks for the World Championships last year?

That should say it all..

Ya I dont think so Tim.

 

[Legend Killer]

Ya I dont think so Tim.

They said thanks but no thanks, apparently because they'd already committed to other players...

 

[YNWA14]

Anyway...tired of having the same argument year after year with the Sens own fanbase (even more tired after he goes and puts up a near MVP type season and still gets no respect).

Think what you want about him. I'll continue to appreciate what he brings.

 

[WhiteLight*]

You love statistics:

Since 06/07 - Jason Spezza has 180 goals in 428 games.
Since 07/08 - Jonathan Toews has 152 goals in 371 games.

Crunch the numbers on those and get back to me.

Yeah...Spezza scored more because he was on a line with Alfredsson and Heatley. I mean, Toews hasn't had the benefit of playing with Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Keith and Campbell at all, right? Not to mention when Spezza outpaced him last year it was because Spezza had way better line-mates.

If you compare the quality of teams that they have both had to play over the time above too the offensive gap becomes wider.

I mean, and your point about Toews ramping it up when the going gets tough really shows over Spezza I mean with his 50 points in 52 playoff games being WAY BETTER than Spezza's 51 points in 53 games. I get it though...he has a gold medal (on one of the most stacked teams ever at the olympics) and he won a Stanley Cup (on one of the most stacked teams in recent memory in the NHL). Therefore he must be better!

How much do you actually watch of Toews? Really? Maybe you should pay more attention to the guy that is about 100x more talented and has actually started to apply himself defensively (and it shows, a lot). Your bias can't see through that though.



I'm glad you would takes Toews over Spezza. He's not the better player though. Also Methot has been picked for Team Canada twice already recently and he's likely on his way to a career year in Ottawa. He's still fairly young...and he'd just be an injury replacement.

Take out 2006-07 because it was a long time ago, and it was a high scoring year where Toews didn't even play and get a chance to score goals. Starting it from the same season is much more fair.

Since 2007-08, according to your numbers,

Spezza = 0.404 goals per game
Toews = 0.410 goals per game


You said Spezza was better, which is clearly false.

This isn't even considering that this includes Toews' rookie season and seasons when he was a teen. Let's include those for Spezza and see how they compare, shall we?


Toews mostly only plays with one of Sharp, Kane and Hossa. Very rarely does he play with 2. Linemates/teammates are equal if not in favour of Spezza.

No, it's not the fact he has a gold or a Cup, it's that he was the MVP of those runs/tournaments. Don't you get it?

Time after time, Toews not only wins, he's an integral part of championship teams. It is NOT a coincidence.


I watch Toews plenty thanks. He actually makes good decisions out there. The guy's a machine.

Make a poll. Toews will win every time and will get 80% of the votes at least. HF agrees, and Hockey Canada agrees.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Ridiculous that anyone thinks Spezza should be in over Toews. Toews was the firkin MVP. All the guy does is Win, win and win.

Really, you're just gonna ignore the Selke nomination(s?)?



Ridiculous

 

[Legend Killer]

Anyway...tired of having the same argument year after year with the Sens own fanbase (even more tired after he goes and puts up a near MVP type season and still gets no respect).

Think what you want about him. I'll continue to appreciate what he brings.

Most people here love Spezza, the fact is, Hockey Canada doesnt really love him.

He is a great player, our future Captain, and according to some, our present leader. No need to argue with fans that dont see those as facts...

He isnt ahead of guys like Crosby, Stamkos, etc because they are just better... He doesnt suit a checking role as well as Toews, Bergeron, Richards, etc. add to that most of those guys won in 2010 and its not hard to see that he will get passed over again.

It is what it is, if he goes, great.

If he doesnt, cheer for Canada anyways.

 

[operasen]

Always nicve to wear a Red/White Maple Leaf but if he's a 4th or 5th option, I'd rather he stay in town with the team and get some rest, maybe get a jump on enlarging his family, to be on top of his game ready for a strong push deep into the playoffs

 

[YNWA14]

Most people here love Spezza, the fact is, Hockey Canada doesnt really love him.

He is a great player, our future Captain, and according to some, our present leader. No need to argue with fans that dont see those as facts...

He isnt ahead of guys like Crosby, Stamkos, etc because they are just better... He doesnt suit a checking role as well as Toews, Bergeron, Richards, etc. add to that most of those guys won in 2010 and its not hard to see that he will get passed over again.

It is what it is, if he goes, great.

If he doesnt, cheer for Canada anyways.

Why is there a checking role at all in the Olympics? Canada is the only team that goes there with that mentality. We will be much more dominant in international competitions, because we have the skill, when we realize that it's not the NHL and we should be sending our most skilled players. Grit is not necessary there.

With that said, again, I would take Spezza as our 3rd best offensive centre in Canada if we move Giroux or Stamkos to the wing. Spezza and Tavares have good chemistry and a line of Nash - Spezza - Tavares would be absolutely dominant on a big ice surface.

I will cheer for Canada regardless, but it gets a bit tired listening to how many people bash Spezza or undervalue him is all. Most people didn't even consider him a top 15 centre in the league until last year. How is Michalek doing without Spezza this year? Michalek is not a 1st line winger on any team except this one (or one completely devoid of 1st line wingers). Spezza makes magic on this team pretty much by himself up front with Alfredsson not playing with him (and aging). It's unreal how talented he is but...as we all know he's never going to get credit for it.

 

[Dysentery]

They said thanks but no thanks, apparently because they'd already committed to other players...

Well that makes zero sense.

**** this team, I usually disagree with half the decisions they make anyways. A lot of bs politics involved in Hockey Canada.

I'll be cheering for Sweden.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

Why is there a checking role at all in the Olympics? Canada is the only team that goes there with that mentality. We will be much more dominant in international competitions, because we have the skill, when we realize that it's not the NHL and we should be sending our most skilled players. Grit is not necessary there.

With that said, again, I would take Spezza as our 3rd best offensive centre in Canada if we move Giroux or Stamkos to the wing. Spezza and Tavares have good chemistry and a line of Nash - Spezza - Tavares would be absolutely dominant on a big ice surface.

I will cheer for Canada regardless, but it gets a bit tired listening to how many people bash Spezza or undervalue him is all. Most people didn't even consider him a top 15 centre in the league until last year. How is Michalek doing without Spezza this year? Michalek is not a 1st line winger on any team except this one (or one completely devoid of 1st line wingers). Spezza makes magic on this team pretty much by himself up front with Alfredsson not playing with him (and aging). It's unreal how talented he is but...as we all know he's never going to get credit for it.

Canada always has an "energy line", not necessarily a checking line. The club has taken players who excel in the two-way game and also can provide a physical presence.

With the number of talented forwards on Team Canada, the chances of Spezza making it is extremely low. There are several centres ahead of him on the depth chart, and then there are wingers like Nash, Marleau, Perry, Lucic (wouldn't be surprised if he made it), and Neal. Iginla and St. Louis will also get long looks despite their age, and I expect one of them to make it to provide leadership, much like why Scott Niedermayer was on the last Olympic team.

Spezza is a very good player, but there are a lot of players that above him on the depth chart and guys who do more than he does on the ice. Toews is an example, and Mandy has made a very good argument for Toews. The biggest thing with Toews is the intangibles. The guy is a proven winner, leader, and a clutch performer.

 

[playasRus]

Ridiculous that anyone thinks Spezza should be in over Toews. Toews was the firkin MVP. All the guy does is Win, win and win.

Really, you're just gonna ignore the Selke nomination(s?)?



Ridiculous

After the 07-08 season, Spezza had one year with Heatley/Alfie, and then he was left with an oft injured Alfie/Michalek.

Let's be real, Toews had much better linemates.

I agree whole heartedly that Toews will def be on Team Canada and Spezza won't, but it won't be because Toews is a better offensive player.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Spezza is better than Tavares, Toews, and Bergeron. Actually a lot of your choices can be questioned...


.

Not when it comes to the button 6 and PK. And tavares is more endeared to HC then spezza. Tavares will probably be one of the young players to make this team.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Ridiculous that anyone thinks Spezza should be in over Toews. Toews was the firkin MVP. All the guy does is Win, win and win.

Really, you're just gonna ignore the Selke nomination(s?)?



Ridiculous

He's right. It shouldn't even have to be said

 

[aragorn]

He's right. It shouldn't even have to be said

I'd take Toews over Spezza any day & Spezza is bigger.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I'd take Toews over Spezza any day & Spezza is bigger.

Always bigger except at crunch time.

At some point people you have to cometo grips with the fact if spezza isn't a top 2 center, he probably isn't getting on. Man, he'll need a huge playoffs to get much consideration.

 

[WhiteLight*]

After the 07-08 season, Spezza had one year with Heatley/Alfie, and then he was left with an oft injured Alfie/Michalek.

Let's be real, Toews had much better linemates.

I agree whole heartedly that Toews will def be on Team Canada and Spezza won't, but it won't be because Toews is a better offensive player.

He had 2. Heatley was traded in 2009.

Spezza has had Karlsson don't forget. Toews also played with only one good winger and Stalberg/Brunette. Not that great.

Spezza isn't that much better offensively than Toews if at all, especially in international tournaments where Toews is better IMO

 

[Indrew]

I love Spezza. He is my favourite Senator. I would love to see him represent Canada in Sochi.

For short tournaments like the Olympics, it's about bringing in big game players.

Spezza's ability to score at a P/G in the season and playoffs is an important skill, but more important in the NHL then in a tournament.

If I'm looking for a big goal or a big play, there are better options at centre for Canada.

Just my 2 nickles.

 

[ybsad]

Spezza makes those around him better

Alfie got 40 goals with Spezza
Heatley got 50 goals twice with Spezza

When Heatley went to play with Thorton, some said he would get over 60 goals, but the best he did was 41, which was closer to his average before playing with Spezza.

IMO, Jason's vision and passing, is as good or better then any other Canadian center.

 

[aragorn]

Spezza makes those around him better.

It could just as easily be argued the other way around ...

 

[John Holmes*]

What they SHOULD do is go back to the training camp they used to have, and make cuts accordingly.

Too many fragile egos for that though.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Spezza makes those around him better

Alfie got 40 goals with Spezza
Heatley got 50 goals twice with Spezza

When Heatley went to play with Thorton, some said he would get over 60 goals, but the best he did was 41, which was closer to his average before playing with Spezza.

IMO, Jason's vision and passing, is as good or better then any other Canadian center.

His ability to use it at crunch time is marginal in comparison. Especially when you realize he's probably gotta make one of the two toughest spots on the entire team, and he has little versatility.

 

[ybsad]

His ability to use it at crunch time is marginal in comparison. .

Not sure I agree with this. He's been a ppg in playoffs. (crunch time)

I believe his best is yet to come.