Spezza and Karlsson

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Answer, Oct 29, 2013.

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  1. Answer

    Answer Registered User

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    These both may be great offensively and their is no doubt that they are. How ever to be a playoff team in this league, you have to play good defensively before you flash your offensive skills around. So far this season these two together on the ice are a liability and are piling up goals against after goals against after goal against like free candy on halloween.

    Karlsson and Spezza being on the ice, more so Karlsson, for 90% of our even strength goals against is the main reason why we are off to a disastrous start. The sooner we fix this problem the more we will be replicating the success we had last season.

    1. Turris's line should be match against other team's top line because they're keep getting the best of Spezza's line and keep outscoring it.

    2. Limit Karlsson's minute till his injury is fully healed. I don't care what excuse anyone has for him for not playing up to his potential, because the fact of the matter is that his current play is hurting this team more than help. 30 minutes of bad pinches and bad giveaways resulting in goals is all I'm seeing, without any exaggeration, what so ever.

    Playing defense is the main priority in hockey. Offense is secondary. That is not the best way to play hockey, it's the ONLY way!!
     
  2. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    The thing with Karlsson... even if he's sucking defensively, everyone is still worse than him. You gotta play him 25+ anyway. Who else is there to fall back on?
     
  3. Answer

    Answer Registered User

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    You can fall back on anything at this point in time. Because other teams seem to have no problem finding the back of our net with he's on the ice on a highly consistent bases.

    We did real well without him last year because we were were an excellent defensive team and whatever may the reason be we were the best team when it came to goals allowed. And, it wasn't all because of Anderson, we all have seen it many times how he can melt when under heavy fire. Our success had more to do with our defense core showing extreme dedication on playing defense.
     
  4. HavlatMach9

    HavlatMach9 streamable 3rah1

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    Spezza & Karlsson have the task of dragging this team. No use in blaming them when there are deficiencies in the rest of the lineup.
     
  5. Lehner

    Lehner Registered User

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    They really need to get a defensively responsible player on Spezza's line, Alfie was that guy. Now we have nobody.
     
  6. Magix

    Magix Registered User

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    I can never see a scenario where this team would be better off with karlsson playing less and phillips/wier/cowen/gryba playing more. We'll be hemmed in our zone more often while getting scored on.

    The guy drives this team's puck possession and isn't fully healthy. I m willing to overlook mistakes as long as they aren't because of lack of effort (like lazy back checking).
     
  7. Answer

    Answer Registered User

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    Are you really going to sit here and blame the whole team except Karlsson? Despite leading the team in points he's the worst minus player on the team. Or I think it is Spezza. Doesn't matter because they are the main reason we are playing terrible.

    It's not Greening's or Smith's or Kassian's fault. Open your eyes.
     
  8. swiftwin

    swiftwin #melnykout

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    No they aren't the reason, they are playing well, or atleast much better than the rest of the team. Did you see Cowen tonight? Greening did **** all, he' supposed to use his size and speed, and he hasn't used any of it since his new contract.
     
  9. MainDotC

    MainDotC Depth Defenceman

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    Trade 'em.
     
  10. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    You can say that about every defenseman at this point. It's not Karlsson exclusive. And Karlsson gets the tough matchups, you have to take that into account when comparing him to the other guys.

    Even if he's on par defensively with the rest, he's obviously better offensively and you gotta weigh that in as well.

    I'd be fine to roll back his ice time like you're suggesting... if there was someone to fall back on. Gonchar was that guy last year. He was amazing. There's no Gonchar this year.

    this
     
  11. ReginKarlssonLehner

    ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

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    For every mistake Karlsson makes, he makes 3-4 scoring chances in response.

    Karlsson is no where near the problem.

    Also, Karlsson isn't even 100% how the hell can we judge him so fast and early especially since he is still improving game by game 10 games into the season?

    Karlsson knows when to adapt his game. He was our best defender in Pittsburgh series in his rookie year and was best skater in NYR series.

    Btw, Karlsson hasn't been on ice for 90% goals against.
     
  12. Answer

    Answer Registered User

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    Why point fingers at role players before pointing fingers at the players who is suppose to carry this team. That are Spezza and Karlsson and if they're going to play like garbage then it doesn't matter what Greening or Cowen does. Right now it's Spezza/Karlsson who is hurting this team more than any other player on this team.

    Every team is only as good as it's main players. That is why championship team's win Stanley cups because of their main players playing proper hockey, and not playing like Spezza and Karlsson.

    I'm not saying they suck or trade them or anything like that but the team is struggling badly and Spezza and Karlsson are the top two to blame. They're suppose to lead and everyone else follow.
     
  13. HavlatMach9

    HavlatMach9 streamable 3rah1

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    I don't blame the other players either, the players can only play upto their ability. It's a total team failure, and Spezza/Karlsson are being asked to do the most. I prefer to wait and see how the next month goes, then I'd question the makeup of the team and that falls on the management.
     
  14. Asquaredx2

    Asquaredx2 Registered User

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    So other players aren't good enough to be blamed, but we can't blame the fact that they're not good enough to be blamed? :huh:

    I agree with you: Karlsson and Spezza can be and need to be better defensively. I also like the idea of Turris matching up against top lines, except that Turris struggled doing that last year and seems to thrive when he's insulated (by Spezza).

    On the other hand, Stanley Cup teams also win because they have great depth. We don't, and it's ludicrous to point the finger solely at Karlsson and ignore how pitiful the rest of the defensive corps is. Can you ask for more out of them? Maybe not, but that's still a problem.

    Ultimately, we were inevitably going to have growing pains after Alfredsson's departure (which was also inevitable in one way or another). I suppose it's not bad to have them now when the core of the team (Spezza, Karlsson, Turris, Ryan, etc.) is young enough that no one will have declined significantly after we've gotten through them.

    As others have identified, we have to bring in more capable players to shoulder the load -- especially on the blue-line. The good news is we have cap-space in spades. The bad news is a good (d)man is hard to find.
     
  15. DylanSensFan

    DylanSensFan Walk On!

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    :laugh::handclap::laugh:
     
  16. L'Aveuglette

    L'Aveuglette "We're a team"

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    Yep, no need to blame the best players and leaders of this team for what the rest of the guys are doing. Makes total sense.
     
  17. VikingKarlsson

    VikingKarlsson Chomo

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    Spezza has the worst +/- on the team. Kinda sad.
     
  18. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

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    I think it's hard to place the blame solely on these two. They are our best players, and they've certainly had their struggles, but while Spezza is improving his effort on the defensive end (you could see that last night) Karlsson continues to make bad decisions or flat out loses his man. It's going to be hard to keep the puck out of the net when the guy you have playing almost 30 minutes a night continues to miss defensive assignments or pinches without support. Karlsson is trying way too hard to force the issue offensively right now instead of leaving that to the forwards.

    Yep, sad that he and Karlsson spend so much time on the ice together and Karlsson insists on not playing his position.
     
  19. SenzZen

    SenzZen Now Let's See

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    It hardly seems fair to compliment Spezza for his "effort" yet slam Karlsson for his execution.

    It is what it is, though- as they say.
     
  20. YNWA14

    YNWA14 You'll Never Walk Alone

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    One is a forward playing less than 20 minutes a game and one is a defenceman that is on the ice for close to 30 minutes (say 28) a game. Also Spezza is playing 64% of his time on the ice with Karlsson so any defensive miscues on his end are going to just be magnified by Karlsson's lack of defensive responsibility.

    I'm not saying that Spezza has been good defensively. He's been up and down, more down than up...but Karlsson has a lot more responsibility on that end and he's just not living up to it at all right now.
     
  21. blahblah3

    blahblah3 Registered User

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    Since Karlsson is about 16 years old now, and creates 192 scoring chances when he is healthy, I am not too hard on his defensive screw ups. He will correct them with time. This is magnified because the heart and soul of our defensive core, Gonchar, is gone.

    Spezza on the other hand has 0 excuses for his pewee defensive play. Hes 30 years old and the Captain of this team for Pete's sakes.
     
  22. CanadianHockey

    CanadianHockey Smith - Alfie

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    Part of the criticism of Karlsson has been effort.
    Although your point is well taken. How people can praise Spezza's defensive play while criticizing Karlsson is beyond me.
     
  23. Suiteness

    Suiteness Registered User

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    Playing against the likes of Getzlaf, Thorton and Toews in the past few days has shown me why Spezza is never invited to Team Canada events, he's nowhere near the level of these guys. Spezza looks great when we're blowing out teams but quite frankly mediocre in other type of contests.
     
  24. Sting

    Sting Registered User

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    Who else do we go to?

    After Karlsson, literally all of our defensemen have been god-awful this year. Phillips looks like he needs to retire already, Cowen has taken a step back, Gryba is a pylon, Wiercioch seems to have lost a step somehow, and Corvo is what he is - a 7th defenseman.

    For the forwards, yes, it might be an idea to put Turris' line against the other team's first line. I still don't think that's going to amount to a whole lot, though, because I'm not convinced Spezza's line can consistently produce.
     
  25. John Holmes*

    John Holmes* Guest

    Except that Alfie played with Turris.

    All you people that think we were great defensively last year are simply wrong.

    Our goaltending kept us in games, this year it's not superhuman.

    Our D sucked last year too.
     

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