Spengler Cup discussion ??

[Samus44]

Just watching the game now and done the first. That goal from Burgler was unreal. Not much fault can go to Dubnyk on that goal.

Gagner has been excellent, passing the puck very well. Good defense and constant effort, he's managed to look like he belongs on his line with two world class talents all tournament.

Ryan Smyth has arguably been Canada's forward outside of Tavares. Bergeron has turned it on and him and Smyth have great chemistry.

Duchene has been much less noticable.

 

[Moonlapse Vertigo]

Smyth looks like he has a lot of jump right now. If the NHL starts up again hopefully he can keep it up.

 

[Samus44]

Done the 2nd. Gagner with an exceptional play on the Tavares goal. He's been unreal. So has Dubnyk who got even with Burgler with a tremendous save. Bergeron-Smyth keep up the terrific play. Even Pouliot has looked allright.

Early 3rd and Sam Gagner gets his 3rd apple, awesome. Gagner with a great little defensive play on his buddy Kane in front of the net.

 

[Cloned]

It's too bad Romaniuk wants to live in Switzerland. He calls an excellent game, better than Miller imo, and Miller is good.

 

[Samus44]

Really? Not all shots are equal? That's something that never occurred to me. Thank you sensei for improving my understanding of the game.

As you can see from my posts above I watched all the games. Aside from the first game he played Dubnyk was average at best. I'm thinking you may have had one too many wobbly pops and the line between the way Subban has played and the way Dubnyk has played became blurred for you.

Anyway, I'm glad you like Dubnyk. I still think he won't amount to much but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'm watching the 3rd right now and i can't believe you think Dubnyk wasn't a standout tonight.

 

[judge301]

I'm watching the 3rd right now and i can't believe you think Dubnyk wasn't a standout tonight.

Yeah Suban didn't do much either he only saw 21 shots but Russias goalie was amazing he saw 44. Clearly one was more than twice as good as the other???

Before anyone comments, In my opinion both goalies played very well....

 

[judge301]

Dubnyk was incredible. He out played goalies many around here suggested we should trade for plus throw in Gagner and a first...

 

[harpoon]

I'm watching the 3rd right now and i can't believe you think Dubnyk wasn't a standout tonight.

Honestly I was not concentrating on the game in the third period so I may have missed some nice saves. I should have mentioned that earlier.

I'd like to make it clear that nowhere in this thread have I said Dubnyk played badly, I just don't think that adjectives like "unreal" and "sensational" apply. He was fine against mostly outmatched and inferior teams - as he should be. I'm certainly not going to rate that as a big surprise.

Unlike say Schneider (who got lit up by team Canada) Dubnyk barely had to face any NHL shooters. Kane was practically invisible and Hornqvist and Talbot didn't scare anybody either.

 

[Everest]

Honestly I was not concentrating on the game in the third period so I may have missed some nice saves. I should have mentioned that earlier.

I'd like to make it clear that nowhere in this thread have I said Dubnyk played badly, I just don't think that adjectives like "unreal" and "sensational" apply. He was fine against mostly outmatched and inferior teams - as he should be. I'm certainly not going to rate that as a big surprise.

Unlike say Schneider (who got lit up by team Canada) Dubnyk barely had to face any NHL shooters. Kane was practically invisible and Hornqvist and Talbot didn't scare anybody either.

Doobie did his job. I thought it was re-assuring to how much better he was than some of the other Club Team 'tendys.

Canada had some blowout wins by and large because they were shooting against 3rd tier goalies in comparison to what the NHL guys see in a non-lockout year.

As for your concern about Dobbie facing "non NHL shooters"...come on...anyone who watched a few of the games in Davos had to see several non-NHL players shooting the puck actually BETTER than a lot of NHLers shoot the puck.

But on the other hand...I think the NHL game develops faster/more complicated offence and its a different kind of challenge for a goalie to face than multiple breakaways like what Dobbie stopped in the Spengler Cup.

He did better than guys like Turco have done in the past...I knpow that much

 

[Replacement*]

One way or another I don't think we can draw much from what Dubnyk plays like in Davos. His disposition is pretty much made for an overseas tourney like this. No expectation, very little pressure, just get out there play well, have some fun. if the game was always fun Dubnyk would be worthwhile.

Dubs problem is when the pressure is on. Always has been. This is a guy that used to freak out and lose his nerves in NHL TC training drills.

I've always maintained he doesn't have the head for playoff type hockey. Plus that he's found ways to get rattled year to year even when the team he's playing for hasn't had that much expectation. Put this guy on a contender team where you expect to win and wait for disaster.

 

[Muscles Glasses]

It's too bad Romaniuk wants to live in Switzerland. He calls an excellent game, better than Miller imo, and Miller is good.

Can't say I blame him though, it looks beautiful over there.

 

[molsonmuscle360]

It's too bad Romaniuk wants to live in Switzerland. He calls an excellent game, better than Miller imo, and Miller is good.

I've always wondered why he didn't have a full time gig doing NHL commentary, but that makes sense. I'd live in Switzerland if I had the chance too. The place makes Banff look like Regina.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I've always wondered why he didn't have a full time gig doing NHL commentary, but that makes sense. I'd live in Switzerland if I had the chance too. The place makes Banff look like Regina.

Why not just retire there? He'd make a good living working in Canada for network like TSN.

 

[judge301]

Honestly I was not concentrating on the game in the third period so I may have missed some nice saves. I should have mentioned that earlier.

I'd like to make it clear that nowhere in this thread have I said Dubnyk played badly, I just don't think that adjectives like "unreal" and "sensational" apply. He was fine against mostly outmatched and inferior teams - as he should be. I'm certainly not going to rate that as a big surprise.

Unlike say Schneider (who got lit up by team Canada) Dubnyk barely had to face any NHL shooters. Kane was practically invisible and Hornqvist and Talbot didn't scare anybody either.

No sir, no one said you said he was bad either. It is very very easy to counter your arguement of no t many NHL shooters by quickly taking a look at the names on team Canada's defense... 1 current NHLer??? You gotta step back and look at the whole picture son... The bottom line is that it's a thin line and some times politics or a half an inch in height or 5 lbs or a half a second that makes one guy an NHL player over another. Listen to every interview if you'd like, there isn't a single "NHL" player that feels he should look down on players in any of those leagues that you in all your infinite wisdon feel righteous in doing. It is dam good hockey. Also, better hockey this year than most others for sure.

 

[OILSLICK94]

It's too bad Romaniuk wants to live in Switzerland. He calls an excellent game, better than Miller imo, and Miller is good.

Can't stand Gord Miller wish Paul Romaniuk would return to NORTH AMERICA and work for one of the networks here (TSN/SPORTSNET/CBC)

P.S who is he hottie in your avatar thnx lol

 

[Jeff Lebowski]

P.S who is he hottie in your avatar thnx lol

That is Génesis Rodríguez

 

[CupofOil]

One way or another I don't think we can draw much from what Dubnyk plays like in Davos. His disposition is pretty much made for an overseas tourney like this. No expectation, very little pressure, just get out there play well, have some fun. if the game was always fun Dubnyk would be worthwhile.

Dubs problem is when the pressure is on. Always has been. This is a guy that used to freak out and lose his nerves in NHL TC training drills.

I've always maintained he doesn't have the head for playoff type hockey. Plus that he's found ways to get rattled year to year even when the team he's playing for hasn't had that much expectation. Put this guy on a contender team where you expect to win and wait for disaster.

This is all baseless speculation by you since Dubnyk has never faced any pressure situations.
It's funny that the same posters who are big Gagner fans also do anything to discredit Dubnyk.

I'm not saying that Dubnyk is a surefire #1 going forward but he hasn't done anything to show that he will fail either. If anything (similar to Gagner), the fact that he not only kept his head above water but actually played pretty well with some horrible defense in front of him is commendable and should serve as a major positive for him going forward.

 

[awesomo]

what a career so far for patrice bergeron

stanley cup, spengler cup, olympic gold medal, world juniors gold medal, world championship gold medal

 

[harpoon]

It's funny that the same posters who are big Gagner fans also do anything to discredit Dubnyk.

I guess I don't see any connection between the two .... I mean is it funny that the same guys who are big MPS fans are big Dubnyk supporters as well? Seems like a pretty random correlation to me.

I also wonder where you get that idea that anyone in this thread has been doing their best to "discredit Dubnyk". What I see is a handful of posters going overboard and saying that he was "unreal" , "spectacular" and so on.

I think I've watched hockey for enough years to know what an "unreal" goaltending performance looks like, and that wasn't it imo. Are these comments so offensive to Dubnyk fans that we have to watch them go full ****** in this thread?

If anything the fact that he not only kept his head above water but actually played pretty well with some horrible defense in front of him is commendable and should serve as a major positive for him going forward.

So the defense was horrible, but the shooters he faced were lethal? Not sure how that works.

The Spengler is a second rate tournament, always has been. That Dubnyk didn't embarrass himself in the tournament is nice, especially since he hasn't played any hockey this year that I know of, but I really don't see how three games (on international ice against over-matched opponents) can be seen a "major positive" for him going forward.

 

[Draiskull]

I guess I don't see any connection between the two .... I mean is it funny that the same guys who are big MPS fans are big Dubnyk supporters as well? Seems like a pretty random correlation to me.

I also wonder where you get that idea that anyone in this thread has been doing their best to "discredit Dubnyk". What I see is a handful of posters going overboard and saying that he was "unreal" , "spectacular" and so on.

I think I've watched hockey for enough years to know what an "unreal" goaltending performance looks like, and that wasn't it imo. Are these comments so offensive to Dubnyk fans that we have to watch them go full ****** in this thread?

So the defense was horrible, but the shooters he faced were lethal? Not sure how that works.

The Spengler is a second rate tournament, always has been. That Dubnyk didn't embarrass himself in the tournament is nice, especially since he hasn't played any hockey this year that I know of, but I really don't see how three games (on international ice against over-matched opponents) can be seen a "major positive" for him going forward.

well to me he has shown that he does not suck ... which is good enough for me.
stopping a Kane break away at Spengler cup = stopping a Kane breakaway at NHL.
I have been making proposals for Bernier\ Luongo and even Reimer.. Dubnyk has proven that he is as good as any goalie not making 5M+

 

[CupofOil]

I guess I don't see any connection between the two .... I mean is it funny that the same guys who are big MPS fans are big Dubnyk supporters as well? Seems like a pretty random correlation to me.

I also wonder where you get that idea that anyone in this thread has been doing their best to "discredit Dubnyk". What I see is a handful of posters going overboard and saying that he was "unreal" , "spectacular" and so on.

I think I've watched hockey for enough years to know what an "unreal" goaltending performance looks like, and that wasn't it imo. Are these comments so offensive to Dubnyk fans that we have to watch them go full ****** in this thread?

So the defense was horrible, but the shooters he faced were lethal? Not sure how that works.

The Spengler is a second rate tournament, always has been. That Dubnyk didn't embarrass himself in the tournament is nice, especially since he hasn't played any hockey this year that I know of, but I really don't see how three games (on international ice against over-matched opponents) can be seen a "major positive" for him going forward.

The correlation is that Gagner is a player who hasn't lived up to expectations but is being undervalued by fans because he has made a positive contribution to the team despite underachieving somewhat and is a young player who has kept his head above water with little help.
Same with Dubnyk who has been better than you and others give him credit for.
You and others constantly preach to be patient with Gagner because he is still young with room to improve yet Dubnyk is somehow not good enough.

It's not a 3 game sample size. He has had a very respectable (above average even) save percentage the last 2 seasons despite playing behind subpar defense and his record has also been decent all things considered, .500 on this team is downright amazing.
I don't give 2 hoots about a Sengler Cup performance, i'm talking about his performance in the NHL which you seem to have discounted yet you get on others who discount Gagner's contributions. I just find it funny and a bit hypocritical.

I personally think that both players are undervalued and need to be better if this team is to take the next step.

 

[sepHF]

I guess I don't see any connection between the two .... I mean is it funny that the same guys who are big MPS fans are big Dubnyk supporters as well? Seems like a pretty random correlation to me.

I also wonder where you get that idea that anyone in this thread has been doing their best to "discredit Dubnyk". What I see is a handful of posters going overboard and saying that he was "unreal" , "spectacular" and so on.

I think I've watched hockey for enough years to know what an "unreal" goaltending performance looks like, and that wasn't it imo. Are these comments so offensive to Dubnyk fans that we have to watch them go full ****** in this thread?

So the defense was horrible, but the shooters he faced were lethal? Not sure how that works.

The Spengler is a second rate tournament, always has been. That Dubnyk didn't embarrass himself in the tournament is nice, especially since he hasn't played any hockey this year that I know of, but I really don't see how three games (on international ice against over-matched opponents) can be seen a "major positive" for him going forward.

Spengler is a second rate tournament but don't forget it was boosted quite a bit this year with locked out NHL players. Davos has Patrick Kane, Loui Eriksson, Joe Thornton, Denis Siedenberg amongst others.

Canada's defense was pretty bad on paper :

4 Cam Barker
5 Jason Demers
7 Geoff Kinrade
25 Micki Dupont
26 Maxim Noreau
28 Carlo Colaiacovo
43 Derrick Walser
77 Travis Roche

and Dubnyk still did pretty good. I think people are excited because it was encouraging to see him do so well after such a long layoff and he clearly outplayed both Bernier and Schneider. Dubnyk made some really nice saves in this tournament.

 

[harpoon]

The correlation is that Gagner is a player who hasn't lived up to expectations but is being undervalued by fans because he has made a positive contribution to the team despite underachieving somewhat and is a young player who has kept his head above water with little help.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. Still not sure that I see the reasoning behind your comment because I have been supportive of many other young players on this team, not just Gagner.

Same with Dubnyk who has been better than you and others give him credit for.

I disagree with this. I have praised Dubnyk when he deserved it and criticized him when he played poorly. Its not my fault there have been more games of the latter variety. Even in this thread I have said that he played extremely well in the first of his three starts.

It's not a 3 game sample size.I don't give 2 hoots about a Sengler Cup performance.

Yet this is a thread about the Spengler. I don't believe I mentioned anything about Dubnyk's performance outside of the three games he played in this tournament.

I'm talking about his performance in the NHL which you seem to have discounted yet you get on others who discount Gagner's contributions. He has had a very respectable (above average even) save percentage the last 2 seasons despite playing behind subpar defense and his record has also been decent all things considered, .500 on this team is downright amazing. I just find it funny and a bit hypocritical.

You find it hypocritical that I said Dubnyk was not outstanding and unreal? I can see the point if I had come on here and totally trashed the guy (like the famous Gagner haters on this board always do), or if I had come on here saying how Gagner was unreal in the Spengler, but I think my comments about Dubnyk's tournament were extremely mild in nature.

I know that I have posted positively about Dubnyk toward the end of last season when he finally had a stretch of above average games. Sadly I can't find any of those posts to quote for you here because it seems the archive only goes up to 300 posts. Do I think he ever becomes a good NHL starter? No I don't, but that's just my opinion and I think I've stated it respectfully wrt this player. Unlike say the Gagner haters .....

Dubnyk still did pretty good. I think people are excited because it was encouraging to see him do so well after such a long layoff.

Yup. That's fair.

 

[Samus44]

what a career so far for patrice bergeron

stanley cup, spengler cup, olympic gold medal, world juniors gold medal, world championship gold medal

All he's missing is the World Cup (and that's a rare event now), and at such a young age.

Also let's not forget about Smitty who might just be the most decorated international player around.

1 World Junior Gold
1 Spengler Cup
2 World Championship Golds
1 World Cup Championship
1 Olympic Gold

I really think he's going to get his cup here in Edmonton, Lanny McDonald style.

 

[CupofOil]

Fair enough Harpoon. I just hope that we can see these guys hit the ice as Oilers real soon.