Speculation:Chatham To Join The OHL

AttackSound

Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Aug 25, 2016
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Owen Sound, Ontario
Right now I can't see anything more then speculation about expanding at the moment. It simply doesn't mean the league won't ever expand, but I think as fans including myself knows that any type of expansion will be a long time waiting.

We can all theorize about what will happen and where the OHL will look towards for cities for potential expansion if at all. But lets be honest here this is a 20 team league and unless there is a big increase in 2 or 4 cities in either Ontario or Michigan or Pennsylvania arenas the league will probably not expand anytime soon,this will be anyone's best guess on what the OHL's BOGs are thinking.

This league is a 20 team league and for the foreseeable future it will remain a 20 team league, if and when the league expands they will have to expand into 2 cities to balance the schedule properly regardless of where the cities are, if and when the league dose expand I think we can agree that will see 2 conferences expand 1 city each making it a 22 team league and 11 team conferences and 2 divisions of 6 and 2 divisions of 5.

Until that happens we can all kick tires waiting to see what happens.
 
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FireBird71

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Aug 6, 2015
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I think Kalamazoo would draw well if they got an OHL Team...they used to do great when they were in the Colonial Hockey League and the UHL...Muskegon too
 
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Savard18

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Feb 10, 2015
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If the league expanded into Michigan I think Muskegon and Kalamazoo would be better options...already have the arenas...just need to upgrade to League standards like Flint did
I would love to see either. I wonder if the age/level similarities between the O and Western Mich would cause attendance issues? Despite wanting to go every year over the last few years I have yet to make my long overdue return to Muskegon for a game. From what I've heard, their facility should already be pretty close to OHL standards. They've got a good thing going with the USHL though and with them being one of the few semi-close cities to the NTDP it might be difficult to lure them into the OHL. It's a little disappointing but the USHL/NCAA route is catching up to the O every year right now.
 
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Kingpin794

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Apr 25, 2012
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I think Kalamazoo would draw well if they got an OHL Team...they used to do great when they were in the Colonial Hockey League and the UHL...Muskegon too

-I mentioned Battle Creek in a different thread. West Michigan city with no hockey team as of right now. Muskegon has USHL, Kalamazoo has NCAA. Kellogg Arena, 4,800 for Ice shows.

-Grand Rapids does have the Deltaplex. It did host the Owls of the IHL back in the late 70’s. Don’t know if the city (or the burbs) would support them but they’d get my money.
 

FireBird71

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Aug 6, 2015
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-I mentioned Battle Creek in a different thread. West Michigan city with no hockey team as of right now. Muskegon has USHL, Kalamazoo has NCAA. Kellogg Arena, 4,800 for Ice shows.

-Grand Rapids does have the Deltaplex. It did host the Owls of the IHL back in the late 70’s. Don’t know if the city (or the burbs) would support them but they’d get my money.
Kalamazoo Wings play at the Wings Event Center...plenty big enough for the OHL and I think if Muskegon could jump to the OHL they’d be all over it
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
I'd love to see it happen via expansion, but with questions regarding Flint's attendance with their current owner, arena concerns in both North Bay and Hamilton, Mississauga still having major issues drawing part of me can't help but think if it does happen, it would be via relocation, which is a shame.

In an ideal world, Belleville comes back after the Sens are done there, Cornwall gets a team filling out the East, Hamilton moves into the Central giving them six, Brantford gets a team in the Mid-West and Chatham fills out the West.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
-I mentioned Battle Creek in a different thread. West Michigan city with no hockey team as of right now. Muskegon has USHL, Kalamazoo has NCAA. Kellogg Arena, 4,800 for Ice shows.

-Grand Rapids does have the Deltaplex. It did host the Owls of the IHL back in the late 70’s. Don’t know if the city (or the burbs) would support them but they’d get my money.

Doesn't Grand Rapids have the AHL Grand Rapids Griffins?
 

AttackSound

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Aug 25, 2016
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Owen Sound, Ontario
I'd love to see it happen via expansion, but with questions regarding Flint's attendance with their current owner, arena concerns in both North Bay and Hamilton, Mississauga still having major issues drawing part of me can't help but think if it does happen, it would be via relocation, which is a shame.

In an ideal world, Belleville comes back after the Sens are done there, Cornwall gets a team filling out the East, Hamilton moves into the Central giving them six, Brantford gets a team in the Mid-West and Chatham fills out the West.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.

Unfortunately the truth is this any expansion in the league would have to be a 2 city expansion one in the eastern conference and one in the western conference, beyond that relocation of a struggling market is the only way. The best way to make expansion work is expand to 22 or 24 meaning 11 or 12 team conferences.

In theory a 24 team league could work in many ways even with the current schedule format. Having 2 conferences of 12 and 4 divisions of 6. The only wrench is that beyond teams are listed you'd have to find 4 cities in total that could attract an average fanbase between 3,400-7,000.

Even if Belleville, Cornwall and Chatham came into the league you would need a 4th city to make the numbers work.
 

From Up Top

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Apr 30, 2010
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Unfortunately the truth is this any expansion in the league would have to be a 2 city expansion one in the eastern conference and one in the western conference, beyond that relocation of a struggling market is the only way. The best way to make expansion work is expand to 22 or 24 meaning 11 or 12 team conferences.

In theory a 24 team league could work in many ways even with the current schedule format. Having 2 conferences of 12 and 4 divisions of 6. The only wrench is that beyond teams are listed you'd have to find 4 cities in total that could attract an average fanbase between 3,400-7,000.

Even if Belleville, Cornwall and Chatham came into the league you would need a 4th city to make the numbers work.

I think it's been mentioned before that Brantford or somewhere in Western New York would also be considered.

Once Chatham announces their arena plans I think we will have a better idea what direction the league may take... I don't see the OHL pushing for expansion at this point though with continued uncertainty in Flint and Mississauga.
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
I think it's been mentioned before that Brantford or somewhere in Western New York would also be considered.

Once Chatham announces their arena plans I think we will have a better idea what direction the league may take... I don't see the OHL pushing for expansion at this point though with continued uncertainty in Flint and Mississauga.

I did mention Brantford, although the concern there is so close to Hamilton and Kitchener, would those markets object. That said, I'm to understand the Brantford 99's draw well, which is why I brought them up.

As far as Western New York, apart from Buffalo (which could be dicey given the presence of the Sabres) most of the markets are claimed by the AHL, with the Rochester Americans, the Syracuse Crunch. The only place I could see close to the border is Lockport, but it's about the size of Owen Sound, and I'm not sure how big their arena is. Looks like they have a Jr. B team...so it's likely small.
 

EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
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I did mention Brantford, although the concern there is so close to Hamilton and Kitchener, would those markets object. That said, I'm to understand the Brantford 99's draw well, which is why I brought them up.

As far as Western New York, apart from Buffalo (which could be dicey given the presence of the Sabres) most of the markets are claimed by the AHL, with the Rochester Americans, the Syracuse Crunch. The only place I could see close to the border is Lockport, but it's about the size of Owen Sound, and I'm not sure how big their arena is. Looks like they have a Jr. B team...so it's likely small.

The Rangers wouldn't object to a team in Brantford. They didn't object to Guelph twice (Platers/Storm) and Guelph is a lot closer.
 
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ohloutsider

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Jan 13, 2016
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The Rangers wouldn't object to a team in Brantford. They didn't object to Guelph twice (Platers/Storm) and Guelph is a lot closer.
If Brampton and Missy did not object to each other and neither could draw I can't see any team objecting to a close by team. Sure would help with travel costs etc. Natural rivals are good for this league and better yet if it is no big deal for fans to make the trip as well. Plymouth and Windsor when the played in Plymouth the arena was more than half Windsor fans.
 
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AttackSound

Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Aug 25, 2016
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Owen Sound, Ontario
I did mention Brantford, although the concern there is so close to Hamilton and Kitchener, would those markets object. That said, I'm to understand the Brantford 99's draw well, which is why I brought them up.

As far as Western New York, apart from Buffalo (which could be dicey given the presence of the Sabres) most of the markets are claimed by the AHL, with the Rochester Americans, the Syracuse Crunch. The only place I could see close to the border is Lockport, but it's about the size of Owen Sound, and I'm not sure how big their arena is. Looks like they have a Jr. B team...so it's likely small.

No to Lockport the building is smaller and is no way capable of being the home of a OHL team. The city is perfect size although the arena appears to be smaller the the Bayshore in Owen Sound.

Looks similar to the size of the practice pads at Paramount FF Centre in Mississauga. Even the Bayshore in Owen Sound with the smallest facility in the O holds 3,500-4,000 capacity facility. The other thing that you have not considered is the size of the surrounding area where Owen Sound sits in the middle. The surrounding area holds about 100,000 residents within a 20-45 minute commute from Owen Sound.

At the current census in 2016 the County of Grey in which Owen Sound residents in holds just 94,000 while it,s sister county Bruce holds close to 66,500 bringing the populous closer to 160,500. That's where Owen Sound makes up 90% of its fanbase.
 
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tomschman

Registered User
Oct 29, 2015
992
1,168
As far as a Michigan city, Muskegon would be the best. The problem is they currently have a USHL team. I do believe the OHL would thrive in Muskegon, but it would depend on the USHL moving.

As far as the other cities mentioned,

Kalamazoo has both an ECHL team and a NCAA team (Western Michigan).

Battle Creek - No arena

Traverse City - Don't know about the arena, but I doubt that it is OHL quality. Also Traverse City is a vacation city, and I doubt that an OHL team would sell.

Ann Arbor - Unless the team uniforms are blue with a maize M on it, it won't sell in AA. Same in Lansing except you need a green uniform with a white S.

Grand Rapids - has an AHL team plus Van Andel is too big.

Detroit Area - anything deemed "Minor League" won't sell, just like Toronto.

Expanding the search a bit, I believe Toledo, Ohio could work except they have an ECHL team.
 

View from section 9

Registered User
Apr 13, 2016
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I think you'll see North Bay on the move sooner than later. Last season was sad and unless they get rolling early I expect this season to be worse. I see sub 2000 fans being the norm. Go Troops Go(ne)
 

AttackSound

Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Aug 25, 2016
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Owen Sound, Ontario
I think you'll see North Bay on the move sooner than later. Last season was sad and unless they get rolling early I expect this season to be worse. I see sub 2000 fans being the norm. Go Troops Go(ne)

Would seem to be the consensus although unfortunately with very limited spots on the map that the Battalion could go to I can't see North Bay Battalion hockey leaving the league any time soon.

Usually when there's rumors of a team's movement there has to be either something else beyond dwindling attendance. Point in case when the Battalion moved from Brampton to North Bay there was clear evidence that the Battalion could be moved with very limited support in the GTA and Mississauga being 5 minutes down the road there was an eventual truth that the GTA would not be able to support 2 junior A clubs.

As a fan from a small market team there's 3 key factors that make up success in a smaller market.

1- Success on the ice, and yes I know it sounds like a well that obvious reason but it's TRUE 100% of fans want to see hope of a winner even if the odds aren't in their favor every season.

2- Public exposure even though it's not a major key to success in the OHL it is a part of team branding.

3- Changing the gameplan as it is and should ever be the best way to success in the OHL is seeing a team mix it up every so many years. Looking at some of the more successful clubs in the OHL they always will change coaches, scouts and strategies to give themselves the best chance of competing in the league.

The one thing that us knowledgeable fans know is the Battalion's playbook hasn't changed since their expansion into the league back in 1998 in Brampton. Hopefully the Battalion can turn it around in 2019-20 in the eastern conference they have a great classic arena up there in the gateway city.

Looking back at the new release it was expected that North Bay would hit an attendance 2,000 paid attendance at Memorial Gardens and even last season they hit 3,000 paid attendance on a regular basis.unless the league is pressuring the Battalion to to a similar situation that happened in Owen Sound in the late 90's when massive renavations were done to the Bayshore and talks of relocation to Cornwall were on residents lips.

Now 20 years later even when the team doesn't have great years every season they have stated consistently competitive season-by-season only ever missing the playoffs once in 20 years back in 2006-07.
 
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SeniorJuniorFan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2013
775
421
I’m with VFS9 on this one. The indicators are clear and strong. The only thing that might entice the team to hang around for a bit is a fairly team favourable lease agreement. But, even if they are making a few $$ or breaking even, why would you stay long term when the local hockey fans are not interested? Fortunately, as pointed out by AttackSound, ideal landing spots are not all that plentiful.

As far as attendance goes, 3000 on a regular basis was 3 seasons ago. Last year they hit the number once (Game 1), I believe, and the average of 2350 was league worst for the 3rd consecutive season.
 

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