Sound familiar (Carlyle)

[ShaneFalco]

Someone posted this on another board.
Excerpts from hf, from Ducks fans that at one point seemed just as confused and baffled as us. Sure, you had his defenders, and they sounded pretty similar to what we hear today. However, it's pretty hard to ignore the similarities, and it doesn't help that a coach that used a team more to their strengths helped transform them into contenders...



"He worked out real well with the 2005-2008 version of the team, but he had many problems towards the end of his Anaheim stay. We were getting constantly outshot, we weren't play the full 60 minutes, lots of inconsistency, and yeah, players tuned him out. He wasn't friends with guys like Lupul, Bobby Ryan, etc."

"Toward the end of his run with the Ducks, there was rumored to be a divide between him and some key team leaders. And he definitely had trouble motivating players. It seemed like most of the team just didn't look like they wanted to play in the first couple months of the 2011-12 season. They just gave up. I guess looking back at how differently they played once Boudreau came in, it must've been a problem with Carlyle."

"The only issue I have with Carlyle is that he forces players to fit his system, he doesn't adapt his system to fit his players. Everyone was going to play his system or else, and once enough players either couldn't or wouldn't do that anymore it all fell apart."

"My biggest issue was that he always started our players from behind our own goal. Watch how many times the Toronto D starts behind the net, or goes behind the net to start the transition. Then they would pass it out (if a forward was open), then dump it into the other zone and chase. If you have great cycle players it works, but if not, you are constantly on defense."

"I remember, my biggest problem with Carlyle was him not adjusting to anything, ever. (Other than adjusting lines to match them or adjust them aka. randomly juggle. The latter of which obviously every coach does to a similar degree.) I don't think he has changed in that in Toronto, and I don't believe it's a system that can work with every group of players."

"When having a lead going into the third period, sit back in your own zone and let the other team come in waves without even trying to get any offensive zone time."

"Well, if he uses his system he used here...
Come out of training camp flat with dead legs.
Wake up the dead legs by having harder practices.
Make certain that when guys make a mistake, they
immediately look at the bench to check if they are screwed.
Make mistakes and enjoy the doghouse
When you are really beat...get ready for a really hard practice."

"I wanted him fired for the way he handled the goalie situation this season and the way he treated Jiggy"

"I also think his defensive zone strategies have been figured out and he doesn't seem to know how to adapt and develop new strategies. It seems his strategy is to allow shots from the outside and never chase players. The problem is, after teams figured that out, they started implementing the high tip plays, wide shots for tips and back door plays more often, which the Ducks constantly get burned on."

Click to read more...

 

[McMatthews]

But he has a Stanley Cup...

 

[highslot]

not being sarcastic, it maybe gms should read some of these boards. i mean if that poster nailed and burke/nonis didn't seem to have a clue...

 

[highslot]

double post.

 

[bobber]

Was Randy not brought in because they liked his system? Sounds like the inmates are running the asylum. If the players don' the buy into the system and all have individual aspirations you will never accomplish much in the way of winning championships.

 

[thewave]

not being sarcastic, it maybe gms should read some of these boards. i mean if that poster nailed and burke/nonis didn't seem to have a clue...

What Nonis and Carlyle have done this last season makes me almost physically ill. It's so bad and I had been saying it since the Clarkson signing ,but yeah, I can't even wrap my brain around the moves made.

I also don't know how Shanny can fix it.

 

[Kamiccolo]

He is a dinosaur. He won't change and does things with the right idea, but with the old style of doing it. If he would adjust his coaching and make adjustments with the team playing more towards his vision than just forcing every player to try to be a two way grinder, then maybe it would work.

His problem is he doesn't let role players be role players. He needs to find a place for his players where they can succeed. Instead, he will take a guy like Kessel and try to make him play along the boards (not a bad thing, neither is making him play D). However, maybe if Kessel was used in other ways and maybe if he would change where he stands on the PP (which is obvious to every team now. They try to make the other team move around, pass to phil, he snipes, it either goes in or JVR sweeps in the rebound) he might be more successful.

Maybe instead of trying to make Franson a two way D who eats big minutes, he could play to his strengths. He exposed a lot of players by putting them in bad roles for them and he turned a lot of players against him by not letting them play their style.

Randy takes a succesful basepall pitcher for example, who is right handed and can't throw with his left, and forces him to pitch with his left. When the pitcher argues Randy goes "but he'll never see it coming!". So for a whole season he makes this guy make an ass of himself, while the guy grows angry at himself and the coach for putting him in this position. At then end of the year, rando goes " well maybe you should play with your right hand, it doesn't seem to work with your left". At this point the player had been arguing it all year and are done with Randy. They leave that season.

He has ruined Grabo, Mac, Kulie, recently. They all had success elsewhere (we'll see for Kulie but I know he will). We lost a fast, succesful scoring 2nd line and replaced it will Kadri who will be good, an over paid grinder, and a man made of glass who would rather look at himself in the mirror than play hockey.

Wonder why we took a step back from last year? Look at the coach and the manager. Coach drove players out of town, and the GM replaced them terribly.

 

[Atomos2]

Someone posted this on another board.
Excerpts from hf, from Ducks fans that at one point seemed just as confused and baffled as us. Sure, you had his defenders, and they sounded pretty similar to what we hear today. However, it's pretty hard to ignore the similarities, and it doesn't help that a coach that used a team more to their strengths helped transform them into contenders...



"He worked out real well with the 2005-2008 version of the team, but he had many problems towards the end of his Anaheim stay. We were getting constantly outshot, we weren't play the full 60 minutes, lots of inconsistency, and yeah, players tuned him out. He wasn't friends with guys like Lupul, Bobby Ryan, etc."

"Toward the end of his run with the Ducks, there was rumored to be a divide between him and some key team leaders. And he definitely had trouble motivating players. It seemed like most of the team just didn't look like they wanted to play in the first couple months of the 2011-12 season. They just gave up. I guess looking back at how differently they played once Boudreau came in, it must've been a problem with Carlyle."

"The only issue I have with Carlyle is that he forces players to fit his system, he doesn't adapt his system to fit his players. Everyone was going to play his system or else, and once enough players either couldn't or wouldn't do that anymore it all fell apart."

"My biggest issue was that he always started our players from behind our own goal. Watch how many times the Toronto D starts behind the net, or goes behind the net to start the transition. Then they would pass it out (if a forward was open), then dump it into the other zone and chase. If you have great cycle players it works, but if not, you are constantly on defense."

"I remember, my biggest problem with Carlyle was him not adjusting to anything, ever. (Other than adjusting lines to match them or adjust them aka. randomly juggle. The latter of which obviously every coach does to a similar degree.) I don't think he has changed in that in Toronto, and I don't believe it's a system that can work with every group of players."

"When having a lead going into the third period, sit back in your own zone and let the other team come in waves without even trying to get any offensive zone time."

"Well, if he uses his system he used here...
Come out of training camp flat with dead legs.
Wake up the dead legs by having harder practices.
Make certain that when guys make a mistake, they
immediately look at the bench to check if they are screwed.
Make mistakes and enjoy the doghouse
When you are really beat...get ready for a really hard practice."

"I wanted him fired for the way he handled the goalie situation this season and the way he treated Jiggy"

"I also think his defensive zone strategies have been figured out and he doesn't seem to know how to adapt and develop new strategies. It seems his strategy is to allow shots from the outside and never chase players. The problem is, after teams figured that out, they started implementing the high tip plays, wide shots for tips and back door plays more often, which the Ducks constantly get burned on."

This one really got me thinking. So Reimer wasn't the first one.

 

[thewave]

Was Randy not brought in because they liked his system? Sounds like the inmates are running the asylum. If the players don' the buy into the system and all have individual aspirations you will never accomplish much in the way of winning championships.

They need a brilliant coach that is able to adapt. Not a cookie cutter Coach that slams his starfish down in the dough and throws away whatever is outside his template...Grabo, Kadri, CMac, Liles etc etc etc. and you also know that whatever doesn't fit inside gets the value absolutely destroyed as well because he isn't smart enough to play guys he wants to move in places to succeed.

 

[Future]

Amazing how spot on all of that is. If he is back next year I will give up on this franchise.

 

[HABitual Fan]

This thread is interesting, I think the major problem with Carlyle is that he was hired too soon after being fired. With the exception of Vigneault in New York very few coaches have success when they are hired right away without time for self-reflection and time to realize what they did wrong and need to change. Vigneault was lucky that he wanted to play a style the Rangers were dying to play under Tortella and never given the chance. Hitchcock and Therrien are completely different coaches then they were in their previous stints, in dealing with the players. and their results so far show it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Who's next on the firing line?" colleague James Duthie asked. "Randy Carlyle," Ward replied. "Randy Carlyle has lost this team."

Ward was later asked, "Do you have an axe to grind with Randy Carlyle?" He pulled no punches. "Absolutely," Ward said. "I was there for a month and a half. I couldn't wait for it to end. The man absolutely sucked the life and the fun out of the game. I sat at the year-end meeting with him and talked about my future, figuring that I would eventually retire after that season and I was pretty sure leaving that room that he would also be too, done ... as coach."

 

[thewave]

Who's next on the firing line?" colleague James Duthie asked. "Randy Carlyle," Ward replied. "Randy Carlyle has lost this team."

Ward was later asked, "Do you have an axe to grind with Randy Carlyle?" He pulled no punches. "Absolutely," Ward said. "I was there for a month and a half. I couldn't wait for it to end. The man absolutely sucked the life and the fun out of the game. I sat at the year-end meeting with him and talked about my future, figuring that I would eventually retire after that season and I was pretty sure leaving that room that he would also be too, done ... as coach."

I had no idea about this stuff but honestly, after game 7 vs Boston and the Grabo drama I knew he was not the guy. Then when I saw this years team and how they played every alarm and warning bell was going off and I thought to myself this isn't going to end well.

 

[Mess]

Someone posted this on another board.
Excerpts from hf, from Ducks fans that at one point seemed just as confused and baffled as us. Sure, you had his defenders, and they sounded pretty similar to what we hear today. However, it's pretty hard to ignore the similarities, and it doesn't help that a coach that used a team more to their strengths helped transform them into contenders...



"He worked out real well with the 2005-2008 version of the team, but he had many problems towards the end of his Anaheim stay. We were getting constantly outshot, we weren't play the full 60 minutes, lots of inconsistency, and yeah, players tuned him out. He wasn't friends with guys like Lupul, Bobby Ryan, etc."

"Toward the end of his run with the Ducks, there was rumored to be a divide between him and some key team leaders. And he definitely had trouble motivating players. It seemed like most of the team just didn't look like they wanted to play in the first couple months of the 2011-12 season. They just gave up. I guess looking back at how differently they played once Boudreau came in, it must've been a problem with Carlyle."

"The only issue I have with Carlyle is that he forces players to fit his system, he doesn't adapt his system to fit his players. Everyone was going to play his system or else, and once enough players either couldn't or wouldn't do that anymore it all fell apart."

"My biggest issue was that he always started our players from behind our own goal. Watch how many times the Toronto D starts behind the net, or goes behind the net to start the transition. Then they would pass it out (if a forward was open), then dump it into the other zone and chase. If you have great cycle players it works, but if not, you are constantly on defense."

"I remember, my biggest problem with Carlyle was him not adjusting to anything, ever. (Other than adjusting lines to match them or adjust them aka. randomly juggle. The latter of which obviously every coach does to a similar degree.) I don't think he has changed in that in Toronto, and I don't believe it's a system that can work with every group of players."

"When having a lead going into the third period, sit back in your own zone and let the other team come in waves without even trying to get any offensive zone time."

"Well, if he uses his system he used here...
Come out of training camp flat with dead legs.
Wake up the dead legs by having harder practices.
Make certain that when guys make a mistake, they
immediately look at the bench to check if they are screwed.
Make mistakes and enjoy the doghouse
When you are really beat...get ready for a really hard practice."

"I wanted him fired for the way he handled the goalie situation this season and the way he treated Jiggy"

"I also think his defensive zone strategies have been figured out and he doesn't seem to know how to adapt and develop new strategies. It seems his strategy is to allow shots from the outside and never chase players. The problem is, after teams figured that out, they started implementing the high tip plays, wide shots for tips and back door plays more often, which the Ducks constantly get burned on."

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