Sorry , we are the softest team in the NHL

[Mess]

Did you see yesterday when Jeff Carter walloped Kerfoot and then looked around expecting some sort of confrontation of Leafs coming to their teammates aid, but Leafs players simply scattered like Leafs Leaves in the wind?

This also been the case in past games where Matthews, Barrie and others took big hits and no response.

When this kind of stuff ends up on game film its becomes a road map for the opposition on how to beat the Leafs, particularly if this were a playoff series.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Did you see yesterday when Jeff Carter walloped Kerfoot and then looked around expecting some sort of confrontation of Leafs coming to their teammates aid, but Leafs players simply scattered like Leafs Leaves in the wind?

This also been the case in past games where Matthews, Barrie and others took big hits and no response.

When this kind of stuff ends up on game film its becomes a road map for the opposition on how to beat the Leafs, particularly if this were a playoff series.

1. The team that made that hit lost.
2. Completely clean hit, as Kerfoot said in his intermission interview
3. Reilly went after the player and almost gave up a odd man rush because of it.

At least look at the entire thing and be accurate

 

[Pookie]

Don't relish losing whatsoever.

Your argument is that this roster can't play gritty and compete, then you say they were only beaten in those facets by a small margin (to the team who is the best at it).

You contradict your own argument.

"Toughness" was not the issue last year.

Sorry. I may not be explaining myself well.

Those facets were the small margin that separated the teams. They will separate evenly matched and healthy teams.

We don’t win the grit game. Large or small margin. When you don’t win the grit game it is a disadvantage.

 

[ACC1224]

Did you see yesterday when Jeff Carter walloped Kerfoot and then looked around expecting some sort of confrontation of Leafs coming to their teammates aid, but Leafs players simply scattered like Leafs Leaves in the wind?

This also been the case in past games where Matthews, Barrie and others took big hits and no response.

When this kind of stuff ends up on game film its becomes a road map for the opposition on how to beat the Leafs, particularly if this were a playoff series.

Yeah that stuff is disappointing particularly the hit on Kerfoot and no response like you mentioned.

I was surprised LA didn't do more of that. Seemed for the most part like a fairly tame game.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Sorry. I may not be explaining myself well.

Those facets were the small margin that separated the teams. They will separate evenly matched and healthy teams.

We don’t win the grit game. Large or small margin. When you don’t win the grit game it is a disadvantage.

You make good points to support you opinion.

I think I make good points to support my opinion.

Honestly think we are just never going to agree on this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How can you argue that these players can't compete, when they clearly did the last 2 years in the playoffs ?

I'd say that the way we lost game 7 in both those playoffs showed perfectly that Boston has a higher level of compete than we do.

Winning attitude is absolutely something that can be turned on/off. That's why you see teams play awful at times and amazing at other times (St.Louis last season, Tampa this season so far).

So did TB get creamed in the playoffs because they didn't feel like competing or did they just forget to hit the ON switch?

I think it's a bit more complicated than you're making it out to be.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah that stuff is disappointing particularly the hit on Kerfoot and no response like you mentioned.

I was surprised LA didn't do more of that. Seemed for the most part like a fairly tame game.

Not sure the Kerfoot example is a good one as that was a 100% legal hit. You have to have your head up and be aware of your surroundings or you're liable to get hit the way he did and when that happens you deserve it, that's the bottom line.

I agree there is a problem, I just think there have been better examples.

 

[ACC1224]

Not sure the Kerfoot example is a good one as that was a 100% legal hit. You have to have your head up and be aware of your surroundings or you're liable to get hit the way he did and when that happens you deserve it, that's the bottom line.

I agree there is a problem, I just think there have been better examples.

Guys are taken to task all over the league for clean hits. That's been going on for quite sometime now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Guys are taken to task all over the league for clean hits. That's been going on for quite sometime now.

If you say so, I mostly just watch the Leaf games. Seems silly to me though, clean open ice hits are a part of the game, nothing wrong with that. Now cheap shots are another story, so is people running your goaltender. Open ice hits, meh. I mean maybe the one on Tavares cause he's the captain but if your 3rd line centre isn't paying attention and gets hit, that's no reason to go to war IMHO.

 

[ACC1224]

If you say so, I mostly just watch the Leaf games. Seems silly to me though, clean open ice hits are a part of the game, nothing wrong with that. Now cheap shots are another story, so is people running your goaltender. Open ice hits, meh. I mean maybe the one on Tavares cause he's the captain but if your 3rd line centre isn't paying attention and gets hit, that's no reason to go to war IMHO.

I agree that it shouldn't happen on a clean hit but it has been a thing in the league for quiet some time.

 

[Bomber0104]

If you say so, I mostly just watch the Leaf games. Seems silly to me though, clean open ice hits are a part of the game, nothing wrong with that. Now cheap shots are another story, so is people running your goaltender. Open ice hits, meh. I mean maybe the one on Tavares cause he's the captain but if your 3rd line centre isn't paying attention and gets hit, that's no reason to go to war IMHO.

A player's stature shouldn't affect whether or not a teammate sticks up for him.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'd say that the way we lost game 7 in both those playoffs showed perfectly that Boston has a higher level of compete than we do.

So did TB get creamed in the playoffs because they didn't feel like competing or did they just forget to hit the ON switch?

I think it's a bit more complicated than you're making it out to be.

When I refer to Tampa it is more of a comparison to how amazing they were last season vs the slow start this season. I'm not saying it's an ON/OFF Switch.

In your opinion is Tampa full of non compete players (similar to what posters are saying about Leafs players) or are they just not bringing it right now ?

IMO it's very easy to see that the core of players can play with a very high compete level. The complected part is getting them to play with that level all the time.

This entire argument stems from posters wanted the GM to "Trade for tougher players", which IMO not the issue.

This team can be amazing, they need to learn to bring it every shift, like some other team have learnt to do (and teams like TB are struggling with, but will figure it out).

 

[18leafsfan18]

If you say so, I mostly just watch the Leaf games. Seems silly to me though, clean open ice hits are a part of the game, nothing wrong with that. Now cheap shots are another story, so is people running your goaltender. Open ice hits, meh. I mean maybe the one on Tavares cause he's the captain but if your 3rd line centre isn't paying attention and gets hit, that's no reason to go to war IMHO.

Exactly this.

Reilly actually went after the player (didn't do anything, more of just a talk), but he almost gave up an odd man rush over it.

Go after guys for dirty hits (Wilson in the game vs Washington), clean hits you just end up with a good chance against you or take a penalty and hurt your team.

 

[rumman]

We might be in the minority here though. I'm guessing the line is drawn by age.

plenty of grizzled posters agree, myself included, the young in's not so much.

 

[ACC1224]

Exactly this.

Reilly actually went after the player (didn't do anything, more of just a talk), but he almost gave up an odd man rush over it.

Go after guys for dirty hits (Wilson in the game vs Washington), clean hits you just end up with a good chance against you or take a penalty and hurt your team.

Didn't notice that live but just saw the video and you're right Reilly did.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They have 15 million next year and the cap will go up with the US TV deal, Seattle franchise , and sports gambling will drive revenue up increasing the cap. While its tight right now, if anything , Dubas is rather forward thinking about the cap as it likely goes up pretty significantly in the next few years.

It will take 3 to 4 years of growth for the CAP to catch up to the current massively inflated CAP due to the escalator. The players have decided not to continue using the escaltor. But the CAP should go up in 4 years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A player's stature shouldn't affect whether or not a teammate sticks up for him.

IMO legal hits are fine and require no retribution. I'm just saying that if there ever is a time to retaliate for a legal hit, it would be in defence of a star player/captain.

When I refer to Tampa it is more of a comparison to how amazing they were last season vs the slow start this season. I'm not saying it's an ON/OFF Switch.

In your opinion is Tampa full of non compete players (similar to what posters are saying about Leafs players) or are they just not bringing it right now ?

IMO it's very easy to see that the core of players can play with a very high compete level. The complected part is getting them to play with that level all the time.

This entire argument stems from posters wanted the GM to "Trade for tougher players", which IMO not the issue.

This team can be amazing, they need to learn to bring it every shift, like some other team have learnt to do (and teams like TB are struggling with, but will figure it out).

I'm not sure what's going on with TB. It might just be that after last year, they don't care much about the regular season and they'll get going eventually. We've seen this syndrome before (WSH being a recent example).

I agree we don't need "tougher players", we just need to get the most out of the players we have. Maybe we just have to "figure it out", maybe the players are sick of the coach, really not sure. It's a tough thing this coach issue. On one hand, I get it when people say that players are paid to play so they should be giving full effort all the time, I mean how can anyone possibly argue with that. On the other hand, if you have a coach who can't relate at all to his players, who just sucks all the fun out of game and doesn't utilize his players properly, it's hard to play with the enthusiasm required to perform at the highest level. Hockey is a business but it's also a game and if the players feel like it's not fun any more, it's hard to see how they can be all they can be.

If it is the coach (and I suspect it is), then I hope he's gone soon.

I would add that to a certain degree it is an on/off switch, but it's not as simple as flipping the switch - you also have to know and be able to shift to that high gear and keep it there. That's not easy, that takes time to figure out so that's a part of it too.

Fire the coach, replace him with Keefe and my guess the players just might start having fun again AND that would lead to them bonding and sticking up for each other.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Did you see yesterday when Jeff Carter walloped Kerfoot and then looked around expecting some sort of confrontation of Leafs coming to their teammates aid, but Leafs players simply scattered like Leafs Leaves in the wind?

This also been the case in past games where Matthews, Barrie and others took big hits and no response.

When this kind of stuff ends up on game film its becomes a road map for the opposition on how to beat the Leafs, particularly if this were a playoff series.

Have you ever seen anything like it? Kerfoot was even applauding him for the hit. You cannot make this stuff up. It's hilarious.

 

[18leafsfan18]

IMO legal hits are fine and require no retribution. I'm just saying that if there ever is a time to retaliate for a legal hit, it would be in defence of a star player/captain.



I'm not sure what's going on with TB. It might just be that after last year, they don't care much about the regular season and they'll get going eventually. We've seen this syndrome before (WSH being a recent example).

I agree we don't need "tougher players", we just need to get the most out of the players we have. Maybe we just have to "figure it out", maybe the players are sick of the coach, really not sure. It's a tough thing this coach issue. On one hand, I get it when people say that players are paid to play so they should be giving full effort all the time, I mean how can anyone possibly argue with that. On the other hand, if you have a coach who can't relate at all to his players, who just sucks all the fun out of game and doesn't utilize his players properly, it's hard to play with the enthusiasm required to perform at the highest level. Hockey is a business but it's also a game and if the players feel like it's not fun any more, it's hard to see how they can be all they can be.

If it is the coach (and I suspect it is), then I hope he's gone soon.

I would add that to a certain degree it is an on/off switch, but it's not as simple as flipping the switch - you also have to know and be able to shift to that high gear and keep it there. That's not easy, that takes time to figure out so that's a part of it too.

Fire the coach, replace him with Keefe and my guess the players just might start having fun again AND that would lead to them bonding and sticking up for each other.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Coaching changes can definitely spark players. I don't know if this is the right move to make, but usually the next one that happens.

After coaching change if the compete level never comes up, the players know they are next.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Tsk tsk tsk
Last nights game didn’t do anything to alter my stance on this very very gross problem .
Kerfoot took that vicious clean but very viscous hit and the response ... fakkk all
That was disgusting
Nothin , nada , boooo
It was Carter .. Freakin Carter !
Next up
Mathews , Marner , Anderson
Stretcher time folks
Shaking my head
Nada
Makes me sick to see our player take that without a response ...

 

[notDatsyuk]

Both Dubas and Babcock.

Babcock made Matt Martin and Komarov seem useless....when the Islanders are on a freaking 10 game winning streak with the same two players playing every day....oh and wait for it...lets add in Ross Johnston as well for good measure.

**** my life

Agree with Martin, but he probably used Komarov too much late in his last year here, considering his injury.

And by the way, Martin and Komarov have each played only three games during the current 10 game win streak, due to injury and illness respectively.

But I agree - we need a couple of that type of player.

 

[NikoEhlers]

So, my biggest problem isnt that we are not "tough" enough, unless you mean forechecking and stealing pucks is what is meant by tough. I honestly am okay with not flooring the others, as long as we had a PP that actually took advantage of the penalties. We have a real problem with the structure, and i blame Dubas for his philosphy, he doesnt seem to rate it, I know Babs does, but what we need for this team is the perfect balance between grit/forechecking/puck stealing and skill, but Dubas doesnt think this way. I dont know how he got the job

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not easy to find physical players who can play the game and take a roster spot

 

[Faltorvo]

If you say so, I mostly just watch the Leaf games. Seems silly to me though, clean open ice hits are a part of the game, nothing wrong with that. Now cheap shots are another story, so is people running your goaltender. Open ice hits, meh. I mean maybe the one on Tavares cause he's the captain but if your 3rd line centre isn't paying attention and gets hit, that's no reason to go to war IMHO.

WOW!!!! you just don't effen get it

do you realise how jack ass you sound here???

good teams,PROPER teams have all TEAMMATES BACKS!

not some elitist/selective "you are worth it" thing.

 

[Faltorvo]

So, my biggest problem isnt that we are not "tough" enough, unless you mean forechecking and stealing pucks is what is meant by tough. I honestly am okay with not flooring the others, as long as we had a PP that actually took advantage of the penalties. We have a real problem with the structure, and i blame Dubas for his philosphy, he doesnt seem to rate it, I know Babs does, but what we need for this team is the perfect balance between grit/forechecking/puck stealing and skill, but Dubas doesnt think this way. I dont know how he got the job

boston shipped out Kessel/seguin/hamilton all skill no heart/jam (nylander types)and all thought them to be nuts for doing it

how they looking now?