Sorry , we are the softest team in the NHL

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Teeder Keon, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. hector morrison

    hector morrison Registered User

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    I think you might be on to something here. The game has gotten much faster since the elimination of the red line, and if there are Scott Stevens style hits with this speed, guys are going to get hurt. Basic physics right there.

    Sometimes the speed is entertaining, but when you play a defence first, tough team, it seems to shut right now.

    Then the playoffs come, the whistles are put away, and the players know this. Just look at Jake Debrusk in Game two last year, he just went full bore rat, hacking and smashing at everyone, and nothing came of it till Kadri took him out. It shouldn't have got that far.[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, relying on the refs is not a good idea! Ultimately,this what the Leaf brain trust is stuck with. They are complying with what the league says it wants,not policing themselves ,not taking matters into their own hands...and how are they making out with that strategy of compliance ? Looks to me they've been getting shafted in the last 4 years. If this keeps up,if the Leaf brass don't say something or change their ways,then all of this marvelous young talent will be wasted
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  2. LeafingTheWay

    LeafingTheWay Registered User

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    Read the entire thread on Twitter, I promise it won't disappoint :laugh:

     
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  3. Menzinger

    Menzinger Moderator

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    So good lol
     
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  4. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    So... blaming the MODO and Marlies coaching staff now?

    Surely you know he spent 3 years in the Minors after being drafted.

    Pastranak spent 1 season in the Minors.

    Think before you post.
     
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  5. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Be careful with statements like our PK cost us.

    It’s true. Boston outscored us 7-3 on the PP.

    Looks horrible.

    But 3 of those Boston goals came in 1 game (Game 4 - 6-4 Boston win).

    It’s more correct to say that the PK cost us game 4 but it was essentially even in the rest of the series.
     
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  6. The Spring Samauri

    The Spring Samauri Registered User

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    kardi really used his grit and toughness last two playoffs. You could hear him slamming his head against the glass in the press box. He was addition by subtraction. We need mentally stable players with grit and heart. He had lots to give that we miss just nothing upstairs to support it.
     
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  7. IPS

    IPS Registered User

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    The Marlies did a terrific job with Nylander.

    He came into the league with back-to-back 61 point seasons (much more engaged play too) and has only regressed since then.

    It appears you are the one who doesn't think before they post :laugh:
     
  8. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    If by “then” you mean 1 season.. then that’s fine. It was only 1 season of point regression.

    I guess your Pasta and Nylander comparison is confined to that one season then since you think he had great back to back seasons prior to that.

    Babcock did a great job with him in years 1 and 2 apparently.

    Weird point but yeah... ok. Thanks for coming out.
     
  9. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    The point is, it wasn't "toughness" that cost the Leafs that series.

    Not sure how anyone can prove that.
     
  10. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    How can you argue that these players can't compete, when they clearly did the last 2 years in the playoffs ?

    Winning attitude is absolutely something that can be turned on/off. That's why you see teams play awful at times and amazing at other times (St.Louis last season, Tampa this season so far).

    The whole "Leafs need to trade for toughness" argument is just flawed. Leafs need these players to compete, simple as that.

    Coach change sometimes works (team doesn't play for the coach anymore), player personal sometimes does (not as effective IMO).

    If this is a team wide issue, IMO it's more on coaching staff than anyone else. Players obviously have to be held somewhat responsible, but there are plenty of examples of players "Checking out" as a team.
     
  11. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Toughness is winning puck battles. It’s clearing lanes and going to the net. It’s being first in the corner. All of that.

    Maybe this is the issue. You can’t measure that. Dubas can’t measure that.

    So like you, he discounts it. Claims it’s not a factor.

    But logically, if you have 2 teams that are relatively evenly matched and relatively healthy... having grit would be a factor that separates them.
     
  12. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    If the players... including the 15 that are playing for contracts in 1-2 years.... (FYI, 6 D don’t have contracts next year).... have checked out and won’t even play for their future... then we need new players.
     
  13. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    The Leafs absolutely showed that in that series. That's the whole point of the argument. If they didn't they wouldn't have won a single game.

    They didn't lose because of toughness.
     
  14. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    St Louis won Stanley Cup last year after a coaching change.

    Pitt in 2016.

    Coaching changes sometimes do the trick, sometimes it player personnel. But the players have proven they can play that way (last 2 years in playoffs). IMO they need motivation.
     
  15. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Definitive statement for something you feel you can’t prove (or disprove)

    I disagree that they showed it but regardless simply “showing it” isn’t a checkbox. Ok. Won a puck battle. Check.

    It’s possible to be outworked by a team that is grittier. And that’s what happened.
     
  16. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Data suggests a mid season coaching change isn’t likely to work

    Is Changing the Coach Really the Answer? - Freakonomics
     
  17. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    I'm not saying it is the answer or not. Simply stated sometimes that is the answer.

    When an entire team doesn't play with that compete level there is a larger issue. They can play that way, it's been proven.

    What is more likely ?

    All these players somehow no longer can play with compete level

    or

    There is a larger underlying issue that is causing the whole team to play without compete level
     
  18. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    So the outwork worked in 4 games but didn't work in the other 3 ?

    If they were completely out worked or out competed in the series it would have been a sweep.
     
  19. Bomber0104

    Bomber0104 Registered User

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    Sorry, but are you actually implying this roster has ever played a hard/intense style of play?
     
  20. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Just to focus on this point... when has it been proven that THIS version of the team can play with compete?

    Significant roster turnover from last year to this. Kadri, Rosen, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Brown, Borgman, Marleau , Hainsey, Ennis

    9 of 20 roster spots
     
  21. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    It’s not an extreme scale. Outworked enough to lose.
     
  22. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    So they were almost on pace with the team considered to be the hardest working / most compete level team in the entire NHL.

    I think this proves my point exactly.
     
  23. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    Playoff the last 2 season is what I was referring to in that post.

    You have a point there and I can agree with it. There is a ton of turnover, but I'm talking more specifically about the core of players, that hasn't changed (I guess I could have specified that).
     
  24. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    You relish losing?

    The Leafs talent could not overcome a very hardworking team.

    We’ve done absolutely nothing to address this deficiency this year.
     
  25. 18leafsfan18

    18leafsfan18 Registered User

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    Don't relish losing whatsoever.

    Your argument is that this roster can't play gritty and compete, then you say they were only beaten in those facets by a small margin (to the team who is the best at it).

    You contradict your own argument.

    "Toughness" was not the issue last year.
     

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