Sorry , we are the softest team in the NHL

[ottomaddox]

Toughness is so overrated in hockey.

The team just needs to play with more grit, you don't need to go and trade for some "tough" players.

The team needs to compete every night and play much better then they have been.

Toughness didn't get them eliminated the last 2 seasons, as much as posters love to say it was.

I would say that toughness is not overrated (unlike some of our young "stars"). We got eliminated because of toughness. Certain players played scared (Nylander/Matthews) and certain players overreacted (Kadri). Boston's toughness got the best of TOR without a doubt.

 

[ottomaddox]

Yup Kadri has one of the best contracts in the league... I don't know how we let him go for one year of Barrie.

There were more parts to this trade.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I would say that toughness is not overrated (unlike some of our young "stars"). We got eliminated because of toughness. Certain players played scared (Nylander/Matthews) and certain players overreacted (Kadri). Boston's toughness got the best of TOR without a doubt.

Toronto's dog shit special teams lost that series.

Toughness is a cop out for the coach and the "toughness is all that matters" crew.

Edit: Was being rude, changed wording

 

[18leafsfan18]

A soft pathetic no-compete team took the Bruins to 7 twice. Seems legit.

I think you are agreeing with me, but so hard to tell on this site now.

 

[Morbo]

I think you are agreeing with me, but so hard to tell on this site now.

I am, and yes it is.

 

[Pookie]

Let's not pretend you weren't constantly talking about trading Kadri for years on end.

Yep. Before he signed his contract and was getting suspended by the team, absolutely.

And again after getting suspended in the playoffs combined with our cap crunch.

Between that though... well now that would be pretend if you didn’t think I said he turned his life around and was playing well above his contract.

It’s ok, I’m used to it.

 

[Kelly]

Or.....

Focus on drafting, developing or trading for one.

Dubas has been manager for 2 drafts... you don't seriously expect him to develop one in that time, do you?

Trading for one is way more likely, but teams tend to hang onto the physical but also skilled ones, as they're a rarer breed in the NHL now.

Could've signed Ferland I guess? But y'all would've been bitching about the term/hit anyway.

He can't win.

 

[Pookie]

Trading for one is way more likely, but teams tend to hang onto the physical but also skilled ones, as they're a rarer breed in the NHL now.

If the game has changed, why would teams hold on to these players?

 

[ACC1224]

They had it for the 2 series vs the Bruins, but all I see here is complaints that its nowhere to be found.

They need to just be consistent about bringing it every night.

This doesn't require a change of players as many posters are suggesting.

I don't really worry about the past, this year is all that matters but no doubt to me that a tougher group would have gotten by Boston.
If you feel they are a tough enough team, that's certainly your right.
I've heard more than enough opinions that disagree and align with my thinking.

They are a relatively easy to team to play against, lack of toughness is a big reason for that.
Is there a team that you feel is softer than the Leafs? I haven't seen every Team play this season but I can't think of one.

 

[Matthews34]

The softness of this team is only a concern to me because it leads to other teams being embolden to go out of their way to destroy Matthews. It's the reason he's been hurt so much. He's going to get Lindrosed if his team doesn't protect him. I don't care if it means taking a penalty or getting a suspension! if Matthews gets hit a Leaf on the ice needs forcibly react and hurt the perpetrator with a fight a cross check, elbow... there needs to be a deterrent. Touch Matthews (or any star) at your own peril! Man, I miss Wendel!!!

 

[IPS]

Let's not pretend you weren't constantly talking about trading Kadri for years on end.

Take a guess what grit also happens to come with: retaliations, liberties, penalties, suspensions, cheapshots, etc...

The most hilarious thing of all that the folks who are clamoring for this team to add grit are the FIRST ONES TO COMPLAIN when any of the above happen.

You can't make this shit up.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't really worry about the past, this year is all that matters but no doubt to me that a tougher group would have gotten by Boston.
If you feel they are a tough enough team, that's certainly your right.
I've heard more than enough opinions that disagree and align with my thinking.

They are a relatively easy to team to play against, lack of toughness is a big reason for that.
Is there a team that you feel is softer than the Leafs? I haven't seen every Team play this season but I can't think of one.

You honestly think "toughness" was a bigger issue in last year's series than Special Teams ?

If that is what you believe we are never going to agree.

Why do we give these "outs" to the coaching staff and special teams players ?

PK Sucked / PP Sucked. Period.

I'm not saying the Leafs are tough and I don't think any team needs to be tough.

They just need to compete, and right now that is what they need to figure out, how to compete every night.

 

[showtime8]

The softness of this team is only a concern to me because it leads to other teams being embolden to go out of their way to destroy Matthews. It's the reason he's been hurt so much. He's going to get Lindrosed if his team doesn't protect him. I don't care if it means taking a penalty or getting a suspension! if Matthews gets hit a Leaf on the ice needs forcibly react and hurt the perpetrator with a fight a cross check, elbow... there needs to be a deterrent. Touch Matthews (or any star) at your own peril! Man, I miss Wendel!!!

I get your point on this & completely agree. I'd also like to add that Tyson Barrie got run (in the same game as Matthews or shortly after) & not a thing gets done.

 

[IPS]

You honestly think "toughness" was a bigger issue in last year's series than Special Teams ?

If that is what you believe we are never going to agree.

Why do we give these "outs" to the coaching staff and special teams players ?

PK Sucked / PP Sucked. Period.

I'm not saying the Leafs are tough and I don't think any team needs to be tough.

They just need to compete, and right now that is what they need to figure out, how to compete every night.

People will just want to believe what they want to believe.

I still can't get over how the "toughness and grit" narrative was almost non-existent during the series and here we are 7 months later and it's resurfaced as the alleged main problem.

The series was absolutely lost on special teams and bad goaltending in game 7. Somehow overlook those 2 crucial things and conclude toughness was the main thing missing.

MOD Edit : Removed Flaming

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Dubas has been manager for 2 drafts... you don't seriously expect him to develop one in that time, do you?

Trading for one is way more likely, but teams tend to hang onto the physical but also skilled ones, as they're a rarer breed in the NHL now.

Could've signed Ferland I guess? But y'all would've been *****ing about the term/hit anyway.

He can't win.

This. Where are all of the "Babcock's son!!!" posters on here?...If we had 2 more Zack Hyman-esque players on this team, we would be battling Boston and Washington for the top spot in the East right now.

Spare me the "We'll win with our speed and skill hur dur" argument. No matter how much the game has changed, Hockey will forever be a "Evergreen" physical game. Does that mean they all need to be fighters?...No, what it means is that if our players are unable to protect and defend themselves in all situations, then you're deluding yourselves into thinking this team has a legitimate shot at competing for the Cup. Dubas better address it this season as he didn't go all in with the Barrie and Muzzin trades only to let the combination of dubious coaching and soft perimeter players f*** it all up.

 

[Bomber0104]

This. Where are all of the "Babcock's son!!!" posters on here?...If we had 2 more Zack Hyman-esque players on this team, we would be battling Boston and Washington for the top spot in the East right now.

Spare me the "We'll win with our speed and skill hur dur" argument. No matter how much the game has changed, Hockey will forever be a "Evergreen" physical game. Does that mean they all need to be fighters?...No, what it means is that if our players are unable to protect and defend themselves in all situations, then you're deluding yourselves into thinking this team has a legitimate shot at competing for the Cup. Dubas better address it this season as he didn't go all in with the Barrie and Muzzin trades only to let the combination of dubious coaching and soft perimeter players **** it all up.

Well said.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Few things...

The players are soft, at least the core ones, but they're young, I'm pretty confident they'll grow into more complete players as they grow, Matthews will never be Lindros and they won't be "gritty" like you guys want but in the current NHL Crosby is gritty, I think something in that stratosphere is achievable, most guys aren't like that at their age.

Babcock is not making them soft and he preaches "hard work" but his idea of that IS the stick checking that everyone hates, he wants his defense to be passive and boring, literally all of his teams have been that way.

You guys are understating how big of a get Muzzin is, everyone's sad we don't have Martin to sit in the pressbox while Dubas brought in a defensively sound, gritty, dman who can be out there for 20 plus minutes a night. That is a HUGE acquisition, considering he's been on the job for a year, Lou was looking for a top 4 dman his entire tenure and we were supposed to have to trade Nylander for ****ing Montour. Honestly Muzzin might be my favourite Leaf at this point, really hope we can keep him.

This team plays with a general lack of passion even beyond grittiness which is depressing and sucks. Really hoping a coaching change sparks them at least somewhat, we have one of the most boring teams in hockey.

I love Kadri and still think his suspensions were bull but he didn't bring the physicality as often as we remember and he was ridiculously penalized for it when he did. Barrie made sense as an acquisition, though I too would've preferred a Muzzin clone, thats just not realistic, this guy should've been good, still could be. And I wish Kadri returned a dman with term. Komarov and Polak are also being overhyped, though I liked them too.

I get that the Islanders are good right now but we do not want to be them, that team does not have the horses to compete year in year out and we should be a lock for the playoffs every year. This is what the Leafs blew it up for in the first place, to accumulate high end talent. The Leafs are not a veteran team so I'm not shocked they don't play like one, but I'm not going to give up on this extremely talented group of players even if they sometimes make it difficult.

And yes, on a whole this season has really sucked so far.

 

[ottomaddox]

Toronto's dog **** special teams lost that series.

Toughness is a cop out for the coach and the "toughness is all that matters" crew.

Edit: Was being rude, changed wording

Special Teams?

Why isn't that a cop out?

Which coach? What crew?

 

[GoonieFace]

People will just want to believe what they want to believe.

I still can't get over how the "toughness and grit" narrative was almost non-existent during the series and here we are 7 months later and it's resurfaced as the alleged main problem.

The series was absolutely lost on special teams and bad goaltending in game 7. Somehow the nitwits overlook those 2 crucial things and conclude toughness was the main thing missing.

Fact is they lost, in the first round again. Boston, despite being a 1 line team, beat the "uber talented, high speed" Leafs. Like it or not, it comes down to the will to win. You have completely lost it if you think "grit and toughness" do not play a role in successful playoff hockey. Every player that has won the cup, will tell you thats the first thing you need to be successful. Keep ignooring that like Dubas has and the Leafs will keep making early playoff exits, if they make the playoffs at all.

 

[IPS]

Fact is they lost, in the first round again. Boston, despite being a 1 line team, beat the "uber talented, high speed" Leafs. Like it or not, it comes down to the will to win. You have completely lost it if you think "grit and toughness" do not play a role in successful playoff hockey. Every player that has won the cup, will tell you thats the first thing you need to be successful. Keep ignooring that like Dubas has and the Leafs will keep making early playoff exits, if they make the playoffs at all.

Not disagreeing whatsoever.

Our grit and toughness was adequate enough to outplay Boston at 5 on 5. Funny enough, the special teams which are less relevant in those regards are where we lost badly. In game 7, the team's will to win got drained badly with every soft ass goal Freddy let in.

And also contrary to popular belief, the Bruins are actually more of the "uber talented, high speed" mold than the tough/grit bully type of mold most think they are. Just goes to show how little people watch other teams around here yet are more than happy to share their nonfactual opinions.

 

[ToneDog]

People will just want to believe what they want to believe.

I still can't get over how the "toughness and grit" narrative was almost non-existent during the series and here we are 7 months later and it's resurfaced as the alleged main problem.

The series was absolutely lost on special teams and bad goaltending in game 7. Somehow the nitwits overlook those 2 crucial things and conclude toughness was the main thing missing.

Yet the Bruins ran them out of the building in game #2. Leafs would have raised the white flag if the Bruins played the same way for the rest of the series. I am puzzled why they did not but think they pretty much knew they could win when they had to and did ( i.e. games #6 and 7).

 

[ToneDog]

Fact is they lost, in the first round again. Boston, despite being a 1 line team, beat the "uber talented, high speed" Leafs. Like it or not, it comes down to the will to win. You have completely lost it if you think "grit and toughness" do not play a role in successful playoff hockey. Every player that has won the cup, will tell you thats the first thing you need to be successful. Keep ignooring that like Dubas has and the Leafs will keep making early playoff exits, if they make the playoffs at all.

What do they know ? HF posters know better. Denial is a wonderful thing.

 

[ACC1224]

You honestly think "toughness" was a bigger issue in last year's series than Special Teams ?

If that is what you believe we are never going to agree.

Why do we give these "outs" to the coaching staff and special teams players ?

PK Sucked / PP Sucked. Period.

I'm not saying the Leafs are tough and I don't think any team needs to be tough.

They just need to compete, and right now that is what they need to figure out, how to compete every night.

Easily. You need many different things to be successful and that's the missing ingredient with this team.
The willingness to do what's necessary to win is missing far too often.
You can't have all dancers, you need some guys to get dirty. PK was a factor for sure, silly to think that's the only reason for the loss.

Do you believe it was a fluke that Boston played St Louis in the Final?

 

[IPS]

Yet the Bruins ran them out of the building in game #2. Leafs would have raised the white flag if the Bruins played the same way for the rest of the series. I am puzzled why they did not but think they pretty much knew they could win when they had to and did ( i.e. games #6 and 7).

1 game, for sure. Can't disagree.

The other 6 games?

What do they know ? HF posters know better. Denial is a wonderful thing.

You'd be hoping that Muzzin is absolutely grilling our star players on a regular basis seeing the Kings team he came from.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not disagreeing whatsoever.

Our grit and toughness was adequate enough to outplay Boston at 5 on 5. Funny enough, the special teams which are less relevant in those regards are where we lost badly. In game 7, the team's will to win got drained badly with every soft ass goal Freddy let in.

And also contrary to popular belief, the Bruins are actually more of the "uber talented, high speed" mold than the tough/grit bully type of mold most think they are. Just goes to show how little people watch other teams around here yet are more than happy to share their nonfactual opinions.

The Bruins have a great blend of talent and toughness. Their good players play with an edge. They dont have the same issue as the Leafs, who essentially have top end talent that all play the same way, which is completely devoid of physical contact.