Sometimes, you just have to make a bold change, or two

[surixon]

I think its pretty obvious that this org is building for tomorrow rather than right now.

They simply put don't want to go into full blown tank mold. They signed the core to stay competitive while they bridged the gap. I can understand the logic, instill good habits from the beginning while giving them the proper locker room support. Does anyone really want to see a Buffalo situation here where we have all of our young players struggling together in the show? Granted things haven't worked out as planned so far this year but I think having some good players and vets on the team help our youngsters like Scheifele and Trouba is a big positive. Having said that I think we need to move on from a player like Buff for a couple more young players that better fit the future direction of the team.

 

[BigZ65]

I just don't think that is realistic either saying he has no value. He does produce offense which is important to win. He doesn't have the right partner and I am sure they are Orgs that think "Hey we could use a 50 point D man with size when we go into Boston etc.." He is the type of player that is extremely valuable because there are very few players with his skill set.

I think any team that views itself as a contender would hesitate to add Byfuglien as a D because he has shown no ability to buy into a system and play within that system over any period of time, which is incredibly destructive to a team, just look at the Jets. Any contending team needs consistent players who buy-in, not guys who are 50-50 players, getting caught deep in the offensive end and puck watching out of breath on a 1:30 shift in his own end. $5.25 million is a little steep for a 3rd line RW given the cap constraints this season.

 

[pcanuck]

So... you're recommending what? a trade? a coaching move? neither? both? What is the role of Chipman? Chevy? Are they responsible? Should they be? I have more questions than answers after reading the article. You also are suggesting the Jets are where the Blues are - with the exception of the salary cap issues now in play. How would you suggest the Jets circumvent this? Buyouts? Just wondering ...

 

[Guerzy]

So... you're recommending what? a trade? a coaching move? neither? both? What is the role of Chipman? Chevy? Are they responsible? Should they be? I have more questions than answers after reading the article. You also are suggesting the Jets are where the Blues are - with the exception of the salary cap issues now in play. How would you suggest the Jets circumvent this? Buyouts? Just wondering ...

I am saying that I believe our "core" as it stands to be relatively comparable to the "core" St. Louis had before making some adjustments (February 2011 trade, firing coach Davis Payne November 2011).

I am not suggesting the Jets are where the Blues are; I am suggesting I believe there is a chance with this core that they are where the Blues were.

Which leads me to believe (in my opinion), I would personally like to see a coaching change and a trade (Byfuglien) to help alter the state of the team and perhaps help it begin reaching it's potential both today and in the coming years.

 

[Grind]

I think its pretty obvious that this org is building for tomorrow rather than right now.

They simply put don't want to go into full blown tank mold. They signed the core to stay competitive while they bridged the gap. I can understand the logic, instill good habits from the beginning while giving them the proper locker room support. Does anyone really want to see a Buffalo situation here where we have all of our young players struggling together in the show? Granted things haven't worked out as planned so far this year but I think having some good players and vets on the team help our youngsters like Scheifele and Trouba is a big positive. Having said that I think we need to move on from a player like Buff for a couple more young players that better fit the future direction of the team.

Agreed 100%.

It's just for me at somepoint you might need to cut bait. IE: we've signed these guys cus we wanted to be competitive for the next three years, have them transition down the lineup, and have younger guys move forward.

The problem is it hasn't worked out that way yet. We aren't competitive (while...we kind of our) or at least not that competitive. Maybe the time isn't now, but it's this season. if we keep up this lack of competitiveness then maintaining that image is pointless.

Your paying guys to appear competetive
you aren't appearing competitive


Either A) you trade those guys for useful assets or
B) you acquire the assets that allow them to at least appear competitive

I firmly agree that a new coach and moving a player could achieve either of these two outcomes. More importantly, doing nothing doesn't get us any closer to either.

 

[Jet]

Continue reading...

Now I am starting to wonder if we are the same person.

I agree wholeheartedly. True North can stick to the plan AND become more competitive today. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I just hope we don't waste a whole season before firing Noel (Does anyone think he will be here next year? Anyone?)

 

[Bob E]

Does anyone think he will be here next year? Anyone?

Only if this team does a complete 180 over the next few months, plays consistently, and within the system, and all players improve as a group. I don't see that happening, at all. I think it will be more of the same. Inconsistent, individual play.

 

[StronGeer]

Only if this team does a complete 180 over the next few months, plays consistently, and within the system, and all players improve as a group. I don't see that happening, at all. I think it will be more of the same. Inconsistent, individual play.

Serious thought: Maybe they are playing the system. It's just that the system sucks.

 

[White Out 403*]

I don't understand this whole idea some people have about "not breaking the plan" or, even worse, "change for the sake of change is wrong".

I'm sorry but what has this core accomplished? Zilch. The worse of it is they've shown no signs of improvement. In fact you might suggest they're getting worse. This core needs to be shaken up a little.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I don't understand this whole idea some people have about "not breaking the plan" or, even worse, "change for the sake of change is wrong".

I'm sorry but what has this core accomplished? Zilch. The worse of it is they've shown no signs of improvement. In fact you might suggest they're getting worse. This core needs to be shaken up a little.

I'll bite. What changes can be made? I really should just make a template:

1) Who's our best trading partner?
2) Who are we trading?
3) Who's available?
4) How does this trade fall in line with our "build through the draft strategy?

 

[truck]

I think its pretty obvious that this org is building for tomorrow rather than right now.

They simply put don't want to go into full blown tank mold. They signed the core to stay competitive while they bridged the gap. I can understand the logic, instill good habits from the beginning while giving them the proper locker room support. Does anyone really want to see a Buffalo situation here where we have all of our young players struggling together in the show? Granted things haven't worked out as planned so far this year but I think having some good players and vets on the team help our youngsters like Scheifele and Trouba is a big positive. Having said that I think we need to move on from a player like Buff for a couple more young players that better fit the future direction of the team.

Yep. Big difference between one or two moves and a tank job. Don't want everyone unloaded for picks, but moving one guy who is in his late 20s for a couple guys in their early 20s could help now and later.

Depth is still a big issue and if you can add quanitity for one prime player - I would like to see quantity in the 20-23 year old age range.

 

[StronGeer]

4) How does this trade fall in line with our "build through the draft strategy?

I think just because the org has said it wants to build through the draft, that excludes us from improving through trade. If you can improve the team I dont care how its done.

 

[razorsedge]

We have a decent core. To me a core is just a group of solid character players. We have them all locked up for a while. If the te finishes bottom 5, then then we're in a position to draft a potential elite scorer or trade for one. Unfortunately, we still need a solid consistent goalie. Which is probably the toughest thing to acquire in the NHL.

Or you go the Detroit and now Chicago route of having a very defensively responsible and puck possession team to make up for a lack of an elite goalie.

I don't see a trade possible that will suddenly make us a winning team immediately.

 

[truck]

We have a decent core. To me a core is just a group of solid character players. We have them all locked up for a while. If the te finishes bottom 5, then then we're in a position to draft a potential elite scorer or trade for one. Unfortunately, we still need a solid consistent goalie. Which is probably the toughest thing to acquire in the NHL.

Or you go the Detroit and now Chicago route of having a very defensively responsible and puck possession team to make up for a lack of an elite goalie.

I don't see a trade possible that will suddenly make us a winning team immediately.

Finding a long term answer in net isn't easy, but teams find good short term goaltending in odd spots all the time.

 

[White Out 403*]

I'll bite. What changes can be made? I really should just make a template:

1) Who's our best trading partner?
2) Who are we trading?
3) Who's available?
4) How does this trade fall in line with our "build through the draft strategy?

Lets play.

1) Who's our best trading partner?
-I'm not a GM so that's difficult to answer but we'd likely want to talk with Buffalo or Edmonton or another struggling team as not to deal from a position of weakness.
2) Who are we trading?
-Buff is the best piece imo. He has very high perceived upside and can fetch a nice return, while possibly giving us addition by subtraction when you consider his mistakes, lazyness, and bad influence on our team.
3) Who's available?
-Again, I'm no GM so who knows.
4) How does this trade fall in line with our "build through the draft strategy
-Perfectly because we aren't trading away draft pics

 

[ps241]

Good article Matt

I believe from what I have seen Chevy's plan and vision has been to build through the draft, develop prospects patiently on the right time line, secure desired assets, While looking for ways to improve today!

Chevy turned over a good portion of the "none core" roster this past off season and during the draft he traded a 3rd and a 5th round pick to acquire Frolik. Chevy also traded away our upcoming 2nd round pick for Seto who will be a UFA next season. We also retained Ron Hainsey for the playoff drive last year rather than dump him for assets. The Jets are not building through the draft "only"! That is a myth so anyone who thinks Chevy is content looking at the results this season to date of being in last place in our division against really good young teams then I have some swamp land to sell you.

Now in saying that I think he is still a patient person but he did only give coach a show me extension last summer so the fuse is burning. If Claude can’t get the ship righted this season I would expect changes in the coaching staff in the off season at the latest.

Also there is nothing wrong with making moves while sticking to the long term vision. I will cite the Dallas example. They had a draft and develop plan and although GM Joe sucked at trades he built up decent depth. Over the last 12 months Dallas turned over allot of their older top 6 forwards (Ott, Roy, Ribs, Morrow), changed their GM to Jim Nill (pretty astute move), replaced the coach, and they traded away the talented and popular Loui Eriksson for Tyler Seguin. The move for Seguin was key because what they did was realign around a young core for "their run". Loui is only 27 and has put up multiple 70 point seasons so the trade fit well with Boston and at first glance it may appear to be a lateral move but Dallas took a risk on a kid with some attitude and talent and they now have their #1 franchise centre who fits their core age wise.

Without bottoming out Dallas has remained middle of the pack, reengineered, and now the Stars have Benn 24, Chiasson 23, Seguin 21, Nichushkin 18, Dillon 22, and to a lesser extent Richie 20, Oleksiak 20, and Campbell as their core to go on their run for a cup over the next 5 years. It may work, it may not, but it looks like they have a plan and are loading up to take a run.

I don’t want to go all Buffalo, Edmonton, or Florida, and I don't want change for the sake of change but I do support measured or bold moves designed to improve the team.

 

[Bob E]

Serious thought: Maybe they are playing the system. It's just that the system sucks.

But they have some success when they have structured play, an aggressive forecheck, and speed. When they don't read and react properly, there's odd man rushes, breakdowns, goals against. I blame the coaches. That's their job, to prepare the players for the team they are facing, and teach the what their responsibilities are on the ice.

Here's an example of one of the problems I have with 'the system'. Jets players seem to go out of their way to 'get into position' but do a poor job of reading the play. For instance, Jets play a 1-2-2 in neutral zone - like many other teams, looking for a turn over in the neutral zone. Against the Hawks, I watched Olli Jokinen start out as the lead forward on the forecheck, only to skate away from the puck carrier for no apparent reason, 'to get into position' as the weakside winger. He was 5 ft away from the puck carrier, angling him, but then turned and skated 80 ft (with his back to the play), to then turn around to face the attack. I thought he was going for a change, but no. Well, by the time he turns to 'face the play', the Hawk forward had moved the puck thru the neutral zone with ease, and had another Hawk providing puck support as they entered the zone. Where was Olli? Near centerice facing the hawks zone. Realizing he wasn't doing anything, he turned to get on his horse as a late backchecker. Hawks get a good scoring chance.

What's frustrating is, this is typical of Olli's stupid play. Oh, and the weakside winger (believe it was Wheeler) was already in position, but Olli races to where he thinks he should be, regardless if someone was already there. So Wheeler looks confused and they end up very close together (just a few feet away), and away from the play, so Wheeler now slides over late, while the Hawks easily take the zone and have an 'odd man' rush. Just an example of a 'system' breakdown, but it's such a stupid play. Where's the hockey sense?

And don't get me started with Olli's defensive zone coverage.

So it seems to be some guys are not reading the situation properly, then not reacting properly. Basic, basic stuff. But does Olli sit a shift? No. Does his ice get impacted? No. Does he continue to make poor decisions? Yes. Where is the accountability? If they watch tape, they must know some guys are doing odd things on the ice. Correct it, or have someone else play.

Now, you watch the Hawks and they have very structured play. They support the puck well, transition well, have players moving to open ice and they move the puck very well, and quickly. They always have a 3rd man high in the offensive zone, etc., etc. It's really not complex. It's just doing the simple things, the right things, all the time.

The Jets don't, and I blame the coaches, for allowing that.