Proposal: something dif NYR - TOR

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Rangers and Leafs, believe it or not, to some degree may be complementary trade partners.

Leafs want to max compete win now, but have to work w/existing cap limitations.
Moves that could help with cap, especially structural cap, should be welcomed.

Rangers need to think ahead. No immediate probs but despite some heavy contracts off the books following next season, $ concerns on the horizon - Zib big raise, elcs-> rfas, etc. We also want to move on from Lias Andersson distraction.

So...
Strome -- salary tbd, rfa + elc Lias + DAL 2020 3rd
for
Kerfoot (3 seasons after this at 3.5 per) + rfa rights to Gauthier (Frederik) + TOR 2020 2nd

why Leafs
Strome, righty, former 50A, has found his game; yes away from breadman Panarin his stats may go down, but that would be true of almost anyone, and top 6 of Leafs offers intriguing possible linemate combos. While chemistry is fragile and cannot be predicted w/certainty, Strome to TOR looks good. Big upgrade over Kerfoot, upgrade over Kapanen [easier to move now due to increased depth]. SIGNIFICANT is that Leafs jettison Kerfoot's term. Not worst fit, just that with several HUGE $$ contracts, squeezing less cost and more flexibility every opportunity makes sense until a big contract or 2 is gone.

Andersson is nothing except a motor = some grit. He barely cuts it as 4th line F. However, if his skating can be solved, there is chance he could compete for 3C. Leafs get cheaper guy on elc to replace a guy who has rfa.


why Rangers
Rangers must learn from prior mistakes.
I preached and preached and preached... trade Namest.
Took ages to get that done.
Result is Kravtsov, who looked good preseason, got sidetracked.

I want to move Strome [and if return is right, in other deals, Deangelo + Buch] to get cap space and, no less important, get mins for other emerging younger talent.

Kerfoot is what he is, we will see, and I have plans to flip him in a much bigger deal to OTT.
Gauthier is brother to Rangers own Julien Gauthier.

Players to Leafs > if not >> than those going other way, so Leafs, who have no 3rd, get one and Rangers, w/no 2nd, are upgraded.

------------
post deal:
Strome = TOR top 6, Lias = 4C
I see Gauthier possibly 4th line W w/Gettinger and Nieves or Howden at C and Lemieux LW
or
Depending on what happens w/Chytil as top 6 pivot, could be deep 3C, I could see
Gauthier - C (Chytil?) - Gauthier as a third line.
Kerfoot not clear, maybe flipped, maybe not.

Thoughts.....
 
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Jerkbait

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Dec 12, 2019
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Rangers and Leafs, believe it or not, to some degree may be complementary trade partners.

Leafs want to max compete win now, but have to work w/existing cap limitations.
Moves that could help with cap, especially structural cap, should be welcomed.

Rangers need to think ahead. No immediate probs but despite some heavy contracts off the books following next season, $ concerns on the horizon - Zib big raise, elcs-> rfas, etc. We also want to move on from Lias Andersson distraction.

So...
Strome -- salary tbd, rfa + elc Lias + DAL 2020 3rd
for
Kerfoot (3 seasons after this at 3.5 per) + rfa rights to Gauthier (Frederik) + TOR 2020 2nd

why Leafs
Strome, righty, former 50A, has found his game; yes away from breadman Panarin his stats may go down, but that would be true of almost anyone, and top 6 of Leafs offers intriguing possible linemate combos. While chemistry is fragile and cannot be predicted w/certainty, Strome to TOR looks good. Big upgrade over Kerfoot, upgrade over Kapanen [easier to move now due to increased depth]. SIGNIFICANT is that Leafs jettison Kerfoot's term. Not worst fit, just that with several HUGE $$ contracts, squeezing less cost and more flexibility every opportunity makes sense until a big contract or 2 is gone.

Andersson is nothing except a motor = some grit. He barely cuts it as 4th line F. However, if his skating can be solved, there is chance he could compete for 3C. Leafs get cheaper guy on elc to replace a guy who has rfa.


why Rangers
Rangers must learn from prior mistakes.
I preached and preached and preached... trade Namest.
Took ages to get that done.
Result is Kravtsov, who looked good preseason, got sidetracked.

I want to move Strome [and if return is right, in other deals, Deangelo + Buch] to get cap space and, no less important, get mins for other emerging younger talent.

Kerfoot is what he is, we will see, and I have plans to flip him in a much bigger deal to OTT.
Gauthier is brother to Rangers own Julien Gauthier.

Players to Leafs > if not >> than those going other way, so Leafs, who have no 3rd, get one and Rangers, w/no 2nd, are upgraded.

------------
post deal:
Strome = TOR top 6, Lias = 4C
I see Gauthier possibly 4th line W w/Gettinger and Nieves or Howden at C and Lemieux LW
or
Depending on what happens w/Chytil as top 6 pivot, could be deep 3C, I could see
Gauthier - C (Chytil?) - Gauthier as a third line.
Kerfoot not clear, maybe flipped, maybe not.

Thoughts.....
Complicated but works.
 
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BeLeafing

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Jun 5, 2017
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I don't think either make sense.

Strome would be looking for a raise on Kerfoot's contract, so I don't even care about the value at that point. The little cap space the Leafs have needs to be spent on the back end.

Then is Lias ready to be a steady 3C? Very unlikely. And that's what we would need back in a Kerfoot deal, a cheaper 3C.
 

Flyer lurker

Registered User
Feb 16, 2019
9,709
12,537
Rangers and Leafs, believe it or not, to some degree may be complementary trade partners.

Leafs want to max compete win now, but have to work w/existing cap limitations.
Moves that could help with cap, especially structural cap, should be welcomed.

Rangers need to think ahead. No immediate probs but despite some heavy contracts off the books following next season, $ concerns on the horizon - Zib big raise, elcs-> rfas, etc. We also want to move on from Lias Andersson distraction.

So...
Strome -- salary tbd, rfa + elc Lias + DAL 2020 3rd
for
Kerfoot (3 seasons after this at 3.5 per) + rfa rights to Gauthier (Frederik) + TOR 2020 2nd

why Leafs
Strome, righty, former 50A, has found his game; yes away from breadman Panarin his stats may go down, but that would be true of almost anyone, and top 6 of Leafs offers intriguing possible linemate combos. While chemistry is fragile and cannot be predicted w/certainty, Strome to TOR looks good. Big upgrade over Kerfoot, upgrade over Kapanen [easier to move now due to increased depth]. SIGNIFICANT is that Leafs jettison Kerfoot's term. Not worst fit, just that with several HUGE $$ contracts, squeezing less cost and more flexibility every opportunity makes sense until a big contract or 2 is gone.

Andersson is nothing except a motor = some grit. He barely cuts it as 4th line F. However, if his skating can be solved, there is chance he could compete for 3C. Leafs get cheaper guy on elc to replace a guy who has rfa.


why Rangers
Rangers must learn from prior mistakes.
I preached and preached and preached... trade Namest.
Took ages to get that done.
Result is Kravtsov, who looked good preseason, got sidetracked.

I want to move Strome [and if return is right, in other deals, Deangelo + Buch] to get cap space and, no less important, get mins for other emerging younger talent.

Kerfoot is what he is, we will see, and I have plans to flip him in a much bigger deal to OTT.



Players to Leafs > if not >> than those going other way, so Leafs, who have no 3rd, get one and Rangers, w/no 2nd, are upgraded.

------------
post deal:
Strome = TOR top 6, Lias = 4C
I see Gauthier possibly 4th line W w/Gettinger and Nieves or Howden at C and Lemieux LW
or
Depending on what happens w/Chytil as top 6 pivot, could be deep 3C, I could see
Gauthier - C (Chytil?) - Gauthier as a third line.
Kerfoot not clear, maybe flipped, maybe not.

Thoughts.....

So Strome> Kerfoot.

I'd take a road cone >>> Gauthier

and the difference is 2 and 3.


hmmmmm
 

bernmeister

Registered User
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so the Leafs center depth can be Spezza, Brooks, and Andersson? sounds pretty bad

Can't have everything.
Can't have your cake AND eat it too.

In my OP you got Strome who is either top 6 pushing somebody down or can be 3C
if you want to elect for that, add your 2020 2nd.

If not, go with suggested variation.
Premise is correct. teams have cap issues, need to get creative, match up.
 

BeLeafing

Registered User
Jun 5, 2017
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Can't have everything.
Can't have your cake AND eat it too.

In my OP you got Strome who is either top 6 pushing somebody down or can be 3C
if you want to elect for that, add your 2020 2nd.

If not, go with suggested variation.
Premise is correct. teams have cap issues, need to get creative, match up.

Exactly why this makes no sense for Toronto even if the value is in their favour. How does adding a more expensive 3C help the team? It's the opposite of what should be done. Get cheaper at 3C, get more expensive on D.
 

bernmeister

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I don't think either make sense.

Strome would be looking for a raise on Kerfoot's contract, so I don't even care about the value at that point. The little cap space the Leafs have needs to be spent on the back end.

Then is Lias ready to be a steady 3C? Very unlikely. And that's what we would need back in a Kerfoot deal, a cheaper 3C.

Can't have everything.
Strome will want more $ but is at end of rfa. Premise is you are going all in, and he may take a few bucks less 1 yr only before turning into full UFA, while upping chance for a cup. Main pt is you are on the hook for Kerfoot for TERM. You need more flexibility going forward, so you lose the term. That has risk down the road, but presumably you can figure out creative options down the road.

Lias is not a 3C b'c his skating has to improve. But he is an elc for 4C. Don't be greedy would be my advice.

As to back end, move Kap or other, but you are not getting takers, and that will likely remain the case.
A signif D upgrade will require moving Nylander.
 

bernmeister

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Exactly why this makes no sense for Toronto even if the value is in their favour. How does adding a more expensive 3C help the team? It's the opposite of what should be done. Get cheaper at 3C, get more expensive on D.

term, brother. STRUCTURAL term.
Multiple heavy contracts at top is restrictive structural, just like CHI w/Kane and Toews.
If you want to stay married to Kerfoot at 3.5, be my guest.
 

BeLeafing

Registered User
Jun 5, 2017
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Can't have everything.
Strome will want more $ but is at end of rfa. Premise is you are going all in, and he may take a few bucks less 1 yr only before turning into full UFA, while upping chance for a cup. Main pt is you are on the hook for Kerfoot for TERM. You need more flexibility going forward, so you lose the term. That has risk down the road, but presumably you can figure out creative options down the road.

Lias is not a 3C b'c his skating has to improve. But he is an elc for 4C. Don't be greedy would be my advice.

As to back end, move Kap or other, but you are not getting takers, and that will likely remain the case.
A signif D upgrade will require moving Nylander.

You're just off in your evaluation of what the team needs. Strome is going to want more term, and more money to what Kerfoot has. It's a terrible fit. Kerfoot is a positive movable asset without taking on a guy who will be more expensive. This isn't some favour you are doing by taking him.

Much rather would look the UFA/RFA route on D and keep the high end talent up front. There just isn't any interest in Strome here and it would only make the cap crunch worse.
 

bernmeister

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So Strome> Kerfoot.

I'd take a road cone >>> Gauthier

and the difference is 2 and 3.

hmmmmm

sorry to be informed he is that slow.
His bro Julien seems to move adequately + for a guy with that much speed.
I thought he is a late 1st, so must be some potential, one hopes.

But I will honor my orig OP as Lias is no prize either.

The unspoken given here is chemistry is a fragile thing, and we have to see what clicks w/who.
That is all about chance, and that is all about reward-risk.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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You're just off in your evaluation of what the team needs. Strome is going to want more term, and more money to what Kerfoot has. It's a terrible fit. Kerfoot is a positive movable asset without taking on a guy who will be more expensive. This isn't some favour you are doing by taking him.

Much rather would look the UFA/RFA route on D and keep the high end talent up front. There just isn't any interest in Strome here and it would only make the cap crunch worse.

respect your choice on plan B alternate
however, as to the bold, while you are not 111% wrong, what you overlook is my specifying, at a cost of moving on from Kerfoot and his overpaid 3.5 with term, you can likely get Strome for less than top top dollar with flexibility to move on after upcoming season.
 

BeLeafing

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Jun 5, 2017
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respect your choice on plan B alternate
however, as to the bold, while you are not 111% wrong, what you overlook is my specifying, at a cost of moving on from Kerfoot and his overpaid 3.5 with term, you can likely get Strome for less than top top dollar with flexibility to move on after upcoming season.

Kerfoot is movable without having to take on salary, and I suspect that's the way the Leafs go if he is to be moved. I doubt Strome takes a 1/2 year deal, and I also doubt he takes any discount. This is his year to cash in as much as he can coming off a 60 point season.
 

cwede

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Sep 1, 2010
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Luvya Bern, but

Dont see any citations at Elite Prospects or Hockey Reference that the Gauthiers are related...

When Lias or Strome are moved I'd rather NYR acquire younger upside assets, more than just swap a 3d for a 2d
 

bernmeister

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Kerfoot is movable without having to take on salary, and I suspect that's the way the Leafs go if he is to be moved. I doubt Strome takes a 1/2 year deal, and I also doubt he takes any discount. This is his year to cash in as much as he can coming off a 60 point season.

I see yr point and I think an argument can be made either way.
Sure if there is a strong suspicion he will get huge bucks from somewhere, odds are he does take payday.
But it is not clear given current economic climate he holds out for that.
I could see 1-2 yr deal.
1 yr better for him and team.
team does not have to protect him in exp drft can sign him after
he has more flexibility to hopefully sign better deal after this yr, which is horrible time to negotiate given covid reality.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Luvya Bern, but

Dont see any citations at Elite Prospects or Hockey Reference that the Gauthiers are related...

When Lias or Strome are moved I'd rather NYR acquire younger upside assets, more than just swap a 3d for a 2d

Love is all you need.
Glad you are among those here the old man does not have to explain that.

As to the Gauthier two not being related, learn something new every day.

But still I'm pleading, let us learn from the Namest debacle.
If you want Kakko-Krav-J Gauthier to have mins and grow, you sell high on Strome and Buch.
Experienced assets will likely challenge which is contrary to objective of giving kids max mins. attn.
and exp assets will cost.
Point of thread is to repurpose assets so we are ready for exp dr and upcoming salaries. Experienced assets/vets are counter to that.

Don't fall into the trap, my friend.
I'm w/you we need this last upcoming season to get it together before Rangers kick ass.
We need to go still, 2 steps back to go 5 ahead shortly after.
 

bernmeister

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I don't see how Strome re-signs for less than Kerfoot. Doesn't that kind of ruin this whole premise?

pls see post 18
And he is not less.

He is roughly the same or a little less, if you add Lias paltry elc which is a given
compared to
Kerfoot 3.5 and Gauthier as an rfa.

Now you could just let Gauthier walk but that would be getting nothing 4 a late 1st drafted value.

And it is the structural cap hit of Kerfoot 3 seasons past this compared to Strome who can be theoretically do less term and is not in a good environment as to league wide generally being bullish to add salary. Clubs may upgrade, but they aren't gonna splurge to do so.
 

bernmeister

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Cap wise it would be hard for the leafs to add Strome even with losing kerfoot.

Not nec.
If you were gonna keep Gauthier while he is not commanding a big #, he is still rfa and that would be more than elc Lias.

So it would depend on how low will Strome go, and while he can make a good case, he can't risk pricing himself out of the market if he wants to stay in NHL.

In a year or 2, SEA or others may come a knockin
But right now, things are tight.

Still like I said, immediate + is losing Kerfoot's extra yrs
Overall cap will be close to same.
 

LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
Mar 5, 2013
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pls see post 18
And he is not less.

He is roughly the same or a little less, if you add Lias paltry elc which is a given
compared to
Kerfoot 3.5 and Gauthier as an rfa.

Now you could just let Gauthier walk but that would be getting nothing 4 a late 1st drafted value.

And it is the structural cap hit of Kerfoot 3 seasons past this compared to Strome who can be theoretically do less term and is not in a good environment as to league wide generally being bullish to add salary. Clubs may upgrade, but they aren't gonna splurge to do so.
Again - I don't see Strome signing for less AAV than what Kerfoot currently makes. He just had a 60 point season.

Gauthier being a late first in 2013 has no bearing on his current value. He'll likely re-sign at league minimum if they want him back.

Your proposal isn't bad but it would likely be simpler for the Leafs to offload Kerfoot for picks and sign a UFA centre for less than what Kerfoot makes.

Also - I know it's already been mentioned but Frederik Gauthier and Julien Gauthier have no relation.
 
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