Post-Game Talk: Someone put potatoes in our pants. Habs lose 3-0 to Tampa.

[OldCraig71]

ANd some in here wonder why we have not a lot of faith in Bergevin....all that talk about character, and he deals our best defensive prospect for a guy who is everything but character....

It was a PR move designed to take some of the heat off himself. It was not a move made with any intention to make the team better. Drouin was terrible last season and he is only marginally better this year. 1 good game and 4 bad ones is not something you want to see from a guy getting some of if not the highest ice time amongst our forwards. He needs to go asap.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Panarin, EK, Stone or whoever, it's a ******* pipedream.

Come back to reality


It's crazy how lessons of the past are never learned. When was the last time we acquired elite talent through free agency? When was the last time we acquired elite talent though the draft. Now, my great lil geniuses, which of those two paths should be taken? The answer should be easy. Which one is more likely to give the elite players we are missin?

Time to grow-up and find long term solutions, where we delay our need for immediate success.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Panarin, EK, Stone or whoever, it's a ******* pipedream.

Come back to reality


It's crazy how lessons of the past are never learned. When was the last time we acquired elite talent through free agency? When was the last time acquired elite talent though the draft. Now, my great lil geniuses, which of those two paths should be taken? Which one is more likely to give the elite players we are missin?

It's not either-or.

If we add Stone, Skinner, Panarin or Gardiner to this team, we are very close to competing. If we don't, we continue building through the draft and trades.

As for the past, it is true that we have not won too many auctions, but we have not often had a lot of cap space and a promising young team at the same time.

Also, even if we only acquired a 2nd level free agent or two like Dzingel, Hayes or Johansson for free without losing assets, that would give us more options to trade for other players we need.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Panarin, EK, Stone or whoever, it's a ******* pipedream.

Come back to reality


It's crazy how lessons of the past are never learned. When was the last time we acquired elite talent through free agency? When was the last time acquired elite talent though the draft. Now, my great lil geniuses, which of those two paths should be taken? Which one is more likely to give the elite players we are missin?

2016. But of course someone only had the chutzpah to sign him for one year.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

ANd some in here wonder why we have not a lot of faith in Bergevin....all that talk about character, and he deals our best defensive prospect for a guy who is everything but character....

Somehow I have a feeling Drouin is not totally Bergevin's doing. Molson might've had his hand in that. So keen to excuse himself for RC. Seems its more of that. Molson making sure his external marketing branch, the local sports media, gets an image to sell.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

2016. But of course someone only had the chutzpah to sign him for one year.

Wouldnt call that having chutzpah.

Ill rephrase, how many long term elite players have we acquired through free agency in the last 25 years?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Wouldnt call that having chutzpah.

Indeed, it's an absence thereof.

Ill rephrase, how many long term elite players have we acquired through free agency in the last 25 years?

...

 

[Kriss E]

Somehow I have a feeling Drouin is not totally Bergevin's doing. Molson might've had his hand in that. So keen to excuse himself for RC. Seems its more of that. Molson making sure his external marketing branch, the local sports media, gets an image to sell.

I think Molson has zero say. I think he's enchanted by Bergevin and has given him free reigns.
Also, having heard and observed both these guys when speaking publicly, it's quite clear which of the two appears to be the pushover.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Wouldnt call that having chutzpah.

Ill rephrase, how many long term elite players have we acquired through free agency in the last 25 years?

Truly elite like Tavares, there haven't been many for any team. Both Cammalleri and Cole were among the top 5-6 targets the year they were signed. But this year there are more really high end UFAs than usual, and we have more cap space than most teams that want to compete. So, if we make the playoffs this year with a young team, we might look attractive enough to one big name player, given that there are only so many teams buying and 7-8 good names out there.

I'll be like the weatherman and say there is a 40-50% chance that it rains a free agent this summer. Like a weatherman, I can't really be wrong.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think Molson has zero say. I think he's enchanted by Bergevin and has given him free reigns.
Also, having heard and observed both these guys when speaking publicly, it's quite clear which of the two appears to be the pushover.

Not sure about that.

The latest PCs we've had with both of them, Bergevin's watered down attitude, Molson taking questions from him without notice.

Pretty sure the dynamic changed around 2016-2017.

Also, you're wrong about Molson having zero say. Molson stated he had internal discussions 6 months before trading PK. Molson even says "we made the decision to trade" in that interview.

 

[Kriss E]

Not sure about that.

The latest PCs we've had with both of them, Bergevin's watered down attitude, Molson taking questions from him without notice.

Pretty sure the dynamic changed around 2016-2017.

Also, you're wrong about Molson having zero say. Molson stated he had internal discussions 6 months before trading PK. Molson even says "we made the decision to trade" in that interview.

Buddy...its all just Public Relations man.
Of course Molson knows the whole city was ready to dump on Bergey and wanted him fired. So he shows up..takes a bit of the lead to remove some pressure off Bergey. It was important for him to do that so people see something different happening and that the owner “cares” and understands the frustration...Gives some hope to fans that changes are coming..blablabla...its pure PR crap buddy, and you're showing exactly why they do it, fans fall for it.

Dont kid yourself, Bergey is leading the show. If he didnt they would have fired him. If they wanted to share responsibilities internally, then they also would have announced it as it would have shown a change, which is what fans wanted. It makes no sense for them to have reshuffled the deck and hid it from public.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Buddy...its all just Public Relations man.
Of course Molson knows the whole city was ready to dump on Bergey and wanted him fired. So he shows up..takes a bit of the lead to remove some pressure off Bergey. It was important for him to do that so people see something different happening and that the owner “cares” and understands the frustration...Gives some hope to fans that changes are coming..blablabla...its pure PR crap buddy, and you're showing exactly why they do it, fans fall for it.

Dont kid yourself, Bergey is leading the show. If he didnt they would have fired him.

I disagree. The Subban comment came two years afterwards. It was decided in commitee. Molson also had to push Bergy to sign Subban a few years back. Promoting Timmins was surely not Bergevin's prerogative, as it goes completely against his usual MO of cronism and nepotism. Same with hiring Duch and Bouch.

Bergevin lost full control for quite some time now. He was also a lot less arrogant. You're naive if you think Molson is a pushover and Bergy hasnt been put squarely in his place.

 

[Kriss E]

I disagree. The Subban comment came two years afterwards. It was decided in commitee. Molson also had to push Bergy to sign Subban a few years back. Promoting Timmins was surely not Bergevin's prerogative, as it goes completely against his usual MO of cronism and nepotism. Same with hiring Duch and Bouch.

Bergevin lost full control for quite some time now. He was also a lot less arrogant. You're naive if you think Molson is a pushover and Bergy hasnt been put squarely in his place.

I think you're seeing what you wish for really..
I mean, of course Molson will have to okay trading away the most popular for the team, but the fact he went along with it shows how little his input is taken in. You are not going to tell me Molson was super excited about moving Subban for an older vet with the public personality of a wall.
And still today, it seems the reason they moved PK was because he just wasn't a fit for Therrien.
So this was not Molson's doing. He simply gave the okay. Of course, again, he will say he was fully behind it and discussed it for so long because the pitchforks were out for Bergey. He just defended him.

Promoting Timmins..it's not like Bergey disproved of Timmins. When he came in as a rookie GM, he not only kept Timmins but he said he will go along with whatever Timmins decides, so it's clear he trusts the man.
Again, PR. Molson and Bergey sit down at the end of the season and agree, they need to make some changes because the public is out for them. So they reshuffled the deck chairs a bit. Vacant spot after Dudley left..so okay, in comes Timmins.
It's not like they hired an outsider, fired one of Bergey's assistant and put him there instead.

Bergey has done things that didn't follow his mindset. He kept talking about character and then signs Semin...I mean...Semin?..So ya, I don't see how putting Timmins there is so out of left field.

 

[overlords]

I disagree. The Subban comment came two years afterwards. It was decided in commitee. Molson also had to push Bergy to sign Subban a few years back. Promoting Timmins was surely not Bergevin's prerogative, as it goes completely against his usual MO of cronism and nepotism. Same with hiring Duch and Bouch.

Bergevin lost full control for quite some time now. He was also a lot less arrogant. You're naive if you think Molson is a pushover and Bergy hasnt been put squarely in his place.

I'm not unwilling to believe this, I'll just need some evidence that Geoff Molson isn't a spineless twerp who was born into his position.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why rush? We can try and sign Panarin on July 1st without giving up any assets.

In Panarin's case it would have to be July. He wants to test the market... so I can't see any club dealing for him beforehand and then signing.

I'm not unwilling to believe this, I'll just need some evidence that Geoff Molson isn't a spineless twerp who was born into his position.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. All we can do is speculate.

What I do know for sure is that he signed MB to a spectacularly stupid contract two years before his first one even expired. So even if he isn't a pushover, he sure doesn't seem to know what he's doing.

Panarin, EK, Stone or whoever, it's a ******* pipedream.

Come back to reality

It's crazy how lessons of the past are never learned. When was the last time we acquired elite talent through free agency? When was the last time we acquired elite talent though the draft. Now, my great lil geniuses, which of those two paths should be taken? The answer should be easy. Which one is more likely to give the elite players we are missin?

Time to grow-up and find long term solutions, where we delay our need for immediate success.

It's a pipedream because our GMs haven't had the balls to do anything.

Every team is able to make big deals, we're no exception. In fact we have the added benefit of having some actual cap space. If you want to say that Panarin probably won't sign here... I'd say you're probably right. 30 other clubs out there will go for him and he might not want to come here.

But that doesn't exclude us from going out and making trades. Those things happen all the time. But we never want to pay the price. And we also don't do enough to rebuild. We simply don't have the will to do these things.

It's almost as though ownership is just happy getting to 8th place and milking playoff money without any real desire to win a cup.

2016. But of course someone only had the chutzpah to sign him for one year.

Can't blame him for that. He was a bit of a mystery and a lot of clubs wouldn't touch him. It was a similar situation to Domi when we got him. But MB certainly screwed up on re-signing him.