Salary Cap: SOIR and how it applies to Lupul and Horton

The Podium

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Feb 19, 2010
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I'm not an expert with the cap, but IIRC Horton was placed on SOIR last training camp to make the Leafs cap compliant heading into the season.

According to the Cap Friendly:
What is the season opening injured reserve (SOIR)?
If a player is injured during training-camp, they can be placed on season-opening injured reserve, to possibly obtain cap relief. It is notable that the SOIR equations are not the same as the daily rate equations in CBA 15.6, which is instead used to calculate the players daily salary (as opposed to cap hit).
Full cap relief
Players who did not accrue any NHL games in the previous season, can be placed on SOIR and do not count against their teams cap hit.

For those that understand this stuff better, now that Lupul went a whole season without a game played how does SOIR affect our cap?
 

Cor

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Based on that, Lupul and Horton won't count against the cap.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Based on that, Lupul and Horton won't count against the cap.

So all this means is we don't have to wait for season to start to LTIR?
Did that happen with Pronger,Savard,etc?
 

Walshy7

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Sep 18, 2016
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So all this means is we don't have to wait for season to start to LTIR?
Did that happen with Pronger,Savard,etc?

probably not because it sounds like it is like LTIR in that you need to be at full cap to use it Phoenix were not

edit: i swear his contract was traded to the coyotes was it not?
 

Cor

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So the leafs get 11 mil towards being cap complaint before the season starts?

That's my understanding.

Essentially, they don't count even when LTIR isn't available until like, day 2 of the season. Then they go on there.

So essentially, we still have another 8-9M to spend and still be able to be under the cap for Day 1 without LTIR.

Assuming Brown and Hyman take around half of that, we will have anywhere from 4-4.5 in cap space.

That goes up to 5-5.5 should we bury Fehr, which is likely.
 

Walshy7

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Sep 18, 2016
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That's my understanding.

Essentially, they don't count even when LTIR isn't available until like, day 2 of the season. Then they go on there.

So essentially, we still have another 8-9M to spend and still be able to be under the cap for Day 1 without LTIR.

Assuming Brown and Hyman take around half of that, we will have anywhere from 4-4.5 in cap space.


That goes up to 5-5.5 should we bury Fehr, which is likely.

whoa thats alot of money for brown and hyman. 3-3.5M is more reasonable. Hyman cant be negotiating thinking he is a 1st line winger $1-1.5M for Hyman but brown is a little trickier, $2-2.5M for Brown 3 years for both
 

Cor

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whoa thats alot of money for brown and hyman. 3-3.5M is more reasonable. Hyman cant be negotiating thinking he is a 1st line winger $1-1.5M for Hyman but brown is a little trickier, $2-2.5M for Brown 3 years for both

I have
1.5Mx2 for Hyman
3.0x4/5/6 for Brown

Total: 4.5
 

sharkhawk

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Jun 1, 2013
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I'm not an expert with the cap, but IIRC Horton was placed on SOIR last training camp to make the Leafs cap compliant heading into the season.

According to the Cap Friendly:



For those that understand this stuff better, now that Lupul went a whole season without a game played how does SOIR affect our cap?

I think you're missing a big sentence in your quote. If a player is injured in training camp
 

Mikeyg

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Dec 26, 2011
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I think you're missing a big sentence in your quote. If a player is injured in training camp

Wrong

see:
Players who did not accrue any NHL games in the previous season, can be placed on SOIR and do not count against their teams cap hit.
 

PuckMagi

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Apr 13, 2013
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That makes things even easier.

I thought that we could go 10% over the cap. And we could also wait until the season starts to sign Hyman and Brown. So I figured with that, we could fit under the cap in the off-season.

But I guess with SOIR, Lupul and Horton don't count towards the cap in the off-season... therefore we should have plenty of cap space. Maybe we can even afford to take on an expensive contract that expires in 2 years. Or we could retain on JVR and Bozak trades to increase our return. Both of those guys look pretty attractive with 50% retained on a team up against the cap that's competing.
 

sharkhawk

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So why did Columbus give up assets to take Clarkson off their hands? Why did pronger, bolland, savard etc get traded along with assets? It's not some magical get out of jail free card
 

NoTouchIcing

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Feb 3, 2010
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So why did Columbus give up assets to take Clarkson off their hands? Why did pronger, bolland, savard etc get traded along with assets? It's not some magical get out of jail free card
The same reason they took on Clarkson to get rid of Horton. So they don't have to pay players for not playing.
 

TheCLAM

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Oct 11, 2012
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So why did Columbus give up assets to take Clarkson off their hands? Why did pronger, bolland, savard etc get traded along with assets? It's not some magical get out of jail free card

Columbus gave up Horton for Clarkson because Horton's contract was uninsured. For a budget team with an internal cap to spend $5.5 on an unusable player was too much. They traded Horton for Clarkson to have a body in the line-up - not for "value".

The Leafs have more financial leverage - they can take a guy or two on the LTIR.. spend to the cap again and not even blink.

You have to understand how the bottom line effects the decision making process.
 

TheCLAM

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So why did Columbus give up assets to take Clarkson off their hands? Why did pronger, bolland, savard etc get traded along with assets? It's not some magical get out of jail free card

I pretty much explained this in my post above. I can offer rationale behind Pronger/Savard... Both had cap-hits that were higher than the actual dollars being paid out. PHX a team who historically hovers around the floor gain by adding a player with a high-cap hit, but low dollars paid out.

IE: Player A makes: $4,500,000 - in the final year get's paid $1,000,000

Essentially, it pads the books and allows them to spend more money while being cap compliant.

Now, Bolland was an interesting one - but they did get back a top 10 prospect back (I mean in the draft not overall) in Lawson Crouse. The contract is horrendous, but their was value added to make a trade
 

sharkhawk

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Columbus gave up Horton for Clarkson because Horton's contract was uninsured. For a budget team with an internal cap to spend $5.5 on an unusable player was too much. They traded Horton for Clarkson to have a body in the line-up - not for "value".

The Leafs have more financial leverage - they can take a guy or two on the LTIR.. spend to the cap again and not even blink.

You have to understand how the bottom line effects the decision making process.

And why did philly trade pronger? His salary was only 475,000. He hadn't played for years. I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but the SOIR exemption doesn't apply to players on LTIR, it's specifically to take care of players who are injured in training camp. Here's a story on the Marc savard trade.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/bruins-trade-reilly-smith-marc-savards-contract-to-panthers/
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Dec 18, 2015
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It's a little more complicated than what has been described.

Although the Leafs will get cap relief with two long term LTIR, it still affects the "bonuses' going forward.
The Leafs would be in a better position if they could offload Lupul. Now that Pronger and Datsyk aren't taking "phantom" cap space with Arizona, maybe a trade to Arizona might happen. Arizona would want a guarantee that Lupul isn't going to play so the insurance pays the whole shot.

A few comments. A know folks want offload Fehr, but the Leafs are thin at the centre position...no help with the Marlies. It's like the Leafs need Fehr this season.

I hate the Marleau signing. 27 goals, 46 points in the past two seasons. Gee Brown who got fewer PP time and mostly 3rd line work had 20 goals and 36 points. And Marleau, because he age 35 plus signing the Leafs will not get LTIR relief (just 925,000) and will take a full cap hit in a buyout, in effect there will be no buyout.

Clarkson, Bolland and Pronger never actually cost a team $$$$. They were fully insured. It's a cap issue, especially if a team has guys on ELCs with bonuses. Horton's contract was NOT insured, so while on LTIR, MLG is out of pocket 5.25m a year for 5 years. The Leafs wanted cap relief of 5.25m by trading Clarkson. Columbus did not want to pay Horton out of pocket for nothing but did not think they would be high cap team. so Columbus took on Clarkson hoping he could contribute something on the ice (more than Horton)
 
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TheCLAM

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And why did philly trade pronger? His salary was only 475,000. He hadn't played for years. I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but the SOIR exemption doesn't apply to players on LTIR, it's specifically to take care of players who are injured in training camp. Here's a story on the Marc savard trade.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/bruins-trade-reilly-smith-marc-savards-contract-to-panthers/

Common sense would tell me that the Flyers traded Pronger because it's easier to not have to use the LTIR. Paying out the dollars wasn't an issue, but not having it on the books is more ideal to free-up cap space.

They're a team who historically spend to the cap
 

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