Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread VI

[Savant]

Harvey Elliott signs new long-term Liverpool contract

 

[Eye of Ra]

I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.

Contraire. As of today with this contract he leap frogged Shaq and Origi on the depth chart. Unless LFC sign another forward, I expect him to have a similar impact as Curtis Jones last year. Start some CL games, All cup games and some EPL games (most likely during AFCON with Mane and Salah gone).

Klopp has never been a fan of loan for young players. He prefers to have them train with the first team and see their development first hand.

 

[Savant]

I dont see him playing much for Liverpool this season. Should be loaned out again. Maybe to a team like Norwich, Brentford etc.

There will be Minutes for him. I’m not trying to loan him out to a team that’s going to be fighting relegation. Would rather he trains with the first team every week. Worked for Foden.

 

[cgf]

There will be Minutes for him. I’m not trying to loan him out to a team that’s going to be fighting relegation. Would rather he trains with the first team every week. Worked for Foden.

I feel like this is something that is often really under-appreciated; especially for kids at clubs with excellent coaching staffs.

Playing a lot can be great, and at some point, every prospect needs to start working on the things they've learned in real game action; but kids can gain so much more from training with a great team than seems to be commonly believed.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I feel like this is something that is often really under-appreciated; especially for kids at clubs with excellent coaching staffs.

Playing a lot can be great, and at some point, every prospect needs to start working on the things they've learned in real game action; but kids can gain so much more from training with a great team than seems to be commonly believed.

It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola.

I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.

I would not say obsessed but it is obvious Harry Wilson cannot function under Klopp (not great in possession, passing average and not fast enough). He is a different type of player that can thrive on certain teams mostly bottom/mid table clubs. Also, they probably lost value from last year and he will continue to lose more (contract running out eventually) if he is not sold this summer. That being said Origi nor Shaqiri are in the plan either. I am guessing that whatever sum of money they can get from the sales of Origi, Shaq and Wilson will be invested on a new forward.

 

[Savant]

 

[Gecklund]

It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola.

I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.

You also have to consider the coaching staff. Pep is largely considered one of the best (if not the best) managers in football today. Klopp as well. Having young guys spend time with them is a lot different that having them spend time with say Ole and getting no game time is a bit different in terms of development than the other two managers.

 

[cgf]

It's hard to tell which approach will be right for a player. Mason Mount, for instance, definitely benefited from getting a lot of first team action at Vitesse and Derby, and I don't think he'd be the player he is now if he'd spent those years training with the first team instead. Foden, conversely, grew a lot from training with Guardiola.

I do think that Liverpool should hang on to Harvey Elliott this year though. He is already good enough to be a rotational option for them. I also don't really understand why they're so obsessed with getting rid of Harry Wilson, given that he's already on their books and probably a better option than Shaqiri/Origi.

Yeah, no approach is perfect for every player. Even if we could prove that one was objectively better for the average player, nobody is perfectly average & we'd still have plenty of kids who were best off following the opposite path.

Maybe dealing with my fellow Knicks fans all year has me a little touchy wrt to the "have to play to get better" fallacy

 

[cgf]

German FBs/WBs:
The only place to start is with Wolfsburg’s Ridle Baku (’98). Having lead the U21s to the european crown with Florian Wirtz, the converted midfielder is powerfully built & a really dynamic attacker whose defensive improvement has been rapid at the new position. With FC VW in the CL this year, he has a real chance to impress given how much they rely on their wide players to create anything. He should be with the NT already and I hope Flick can empower him to create for our NT the way he did Davies to create for Bayern.

The biggest name of this group, Luca Netz (’03) has been identified as one of the top talents in his age group for a while now and this season, started breaking in at the senior level; with 11 BuLi appearances and his first goal. With Hertha rebooting around their young talent this season, Netz should get even more chance to show off his skill & elegance, as he takes further steps towards that “next Lahm” label that everyone started throwing his way. The WM seems at least a cycle too soon for him, but if Gosens starts to slow down after Qatar, hopefully, Luca will be ready to replace him.

The last kid I want to mention with this top group that I see real star potential in…aka w/ realistic-ceilings that are higher than Gosens’ current level…is Hoffenheim’s Marco John (’02). He hasn’t been in the spotlight for as long as Netz or at as high of a level as Baku, but he looked really dynamic in his almost 1000 minutes of 1st division football last season. Like Baumgartner, John was an attacking midfielder at the youth level, but like his austrian team-mate he took to playing LWB like a fish to water when Hoeneß put him there after the winter break.


In the next tier are kids who have shown the potential to become options for the NT, but who I’m not as high on as that first trio. First in that group I am going to mention Monaco’s new signing, Ismail Jakobs ('99). A winger by training, Jakobs started transitioning to WB this season — with about half of his appearances coming there — and looked very interesting at that spot. Hopefully Kovac continues to develop the U21 European champion & olympian in that role.

Next is his Köln team-mate Noah Katterbach ('01); whom some have right behind Netz. I don’t think the two time Fritz-Walter medal winner is skilled or explosive enough to be the threat that Baku/Netz/John are with the ball…but he has certainly shown some impressive potential in his almost 40 BuLi matches over the past two seasons and is much more of a traditional-/twoway-FB in the Lahm mold, than anyone else I’ve mentioned.

Jean Manuel Mbom (’00) is a kid I was super high on as an 8 at the u17 & u19 levels, but after missing a ton of time due to injuries the past couple of years, I had started to worry he had lost too much development time. And though he’s unlikely to make good on the potential he once showed (by surpassing Gundogan as a midfielder), he really put himself back on the map last year; looking really good for Werder as a wingback…as he split his 24 matches ~50/50 between WB & CM. Mobile, skilled & creative, the tools are there for a very interesting FB/WB if he has finally put his injuries behind him.

HMs:
Roberto Massimo (’00), David Raum (’98), Josha Vagnoman (’00); Kaan Kurt (’01), Kerim Calhanoglu (’02), and Mehmet Aydin (’02).

 

[les Habs]

German FBs/WBs:
The only place to start is with Wolfsburg’s Ridle Baku (’98). Having lead the U21s to the european crown with Florian Wirtz, the converted midfielder is powerfully built & a really dynamic attacker whose defensive improvement has been rapid at the new position. With FC VW in the CL this year, he has a real chance to impress given how much they rely on their wide players to create anything. He should be with the NT already and I hope Flick can empower him to create for our NT the way he did Davies to create for Bayern.

The biggest name of this group, Luca Netz (’03) has been identified as one of the top talents in his age group for a while now and this season, started breaking in at the senior level; with 11 BuLi appearances and his first goal. With Hertha rebooting around their young talent this season, Netz should get even more chance to show off his skill & elegance, as he takes further steps towards that “next Lahm” label that everyone started throwing his way. The WM seems at least a cycle too soon for him, but if Gosens starts to slow down after Qatar, hopefully, Luca will be ready to replace him.

The last kid I want to mention with this top group that I see real star potential in…aka w/ realistic-ceilings that are higher than Gosens’ current level…is Hoffenheim’s Marco John (’02). He hasn’t been in the spotlight for as long as Netz or at as high of a level as Baku, but he looked really dynamic in his almost 1000 minutes of 1st division football last season. Like Baumgartner, John was an attacking midfielder at the youth level, but like his austrian team-mate he took to playing LWB like a fish to water when Hoeneß put him there after the winter break.


In the next tier are kids who have shown the potential to become options for the NT, but who I’m not as high on as that first trio. First in that group I am going to mention Monaco’s new signing, Ismail Jakobs ('99). A winger by training, Jakobs started transitioning to WB this season — with about half of his appearances coming there — and looked very interesting at that spot. Hopefully Kovac continues to develop the U21 European champion & olympian in that role.

Next is his Köln team-mate Noah Katterbach ('01); whom some have right behind Netz. I don’t think the two time Fritz-Walter medal winner is skilled or explosive enough to be the threat that Baku/Netz/John are with the ball…but he has certainly shown some impressive potential in his almost 40 BuLi matches over the past two seasons and is much more of a traditional-/twoway-FB in the Lahm mold, than anyone else I’ve mentioned.

Jean Manuel Mbom (’00) is a kid I was super high on as an 8 at the u17 & u19 levels, but after missing a ton of time due to injuries the past couple of years, I had started to worry he had lost too much development time. And though he’s unlikely to make good on the potential he once showed (by surpassing Gundogan as a midfielder), he really put himself back on the map last year; looking really good for Werder as a wingback…as he split his 24 matches ~50/50 between WB & CM. Mobile, skilled & creative, the tools are there for a very interesting FB/WB if he has finally put his injuries behind him.

HMs:
Roberto Massimo (’00), David Raum (’98), Josha Vagnoman (’00); Kaan Kurt (’01), Kerim Calhanoglu (’02), and Mehmet Aydin (’02).

I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league

 

[cgf]

I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league

Good man.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dortmund fans that watch the youth teams are excited about Lion Semic. He’s dealt with some injuries that is probably the reason he isn’t yet moving up to the first team, but they say he could play for the first team at RB in a season or two.

 

[cgf]

Dortmund fans that watch the youth teams are excited about Lion Semic. He’s dealt with some injuries that is probably the reason he isn’t yet moving up to the first team, but they say he could play for the first team at RB in a season or two.

Like Collins, I have yet to see him play, but he's on my list of kids to check out once he gets to the U19 NT...or your first team.

Another RB/RWB would certainly not go amiss for us, as...despite how awesome Baku is...the depth on the right (Massimo / Mbom / Kurt / Aydin / etc.) is much weaker than the depth on the left (Netz / John / Katterbach / Jakobs / Calhanoglu / etc.).

Especially since Mbom saw time on both flanks when Werder used him in the wide areas and I'm counting him as a RB because the depth there is so much worse...though I'm a Kaan Kurt fan & liked some of the flashes I saw from Aydin last season.


Baku hitting has really taken the sting off of what a disappointment Henrichs has been.

 

[bluesfan94]

Not sure where to put this exactly but I think a nice hire for STL City SC.



@cgf know anything about him/how have the clubs mentioned done with youth?

 

[cgf]

Not sure where to put this exactly but I think a nice hire for STL City SC.



@cgf know anything about him/how have the clubs mentioned done with youth?

Not specifically but looking his history up on TM, there's cause for optimism. Stuttgart, where he got his start, has had a good academy since Das Reboot...and over the past 3 years he's been in charge of development, they have done a good job with many of their young talents.

 

[bluesfan94]

Not specifically but looking his history up on TM, there's cause for optimism. Stuttgart, where he got his start, has had a good academy since Das Reboot...and over the past 3 years he's been in charge of development, they have done a good job with many of their young talents.

Yeah I figured asking for specifics was probably asking way too much, but definitely good to hear. St. Louis has the potential to churn out talent if we can get a good academy set up. Even without one, really (we have Scott Gallagher but that has its own issues) we're put out a handful of national team players recently (Ream, Sargent, Davis, Will Bruin, Becky Sauerbrunn)

 

[YNWA14]

I drafted Netz a year ago in our defunct keeper league

After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.

 

[YNWA14]

I think it's a bit early to write off Malen all things considered. He's done well at club for two seasons now. People make too much of the NT performances relative to those at club level. Hence some of the crazy post NT tournament signings over the years.

100%; he also looked pretty good for the Netherlands...missing one chance doesn't make him a bad player.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.

Just because you typed a prospects name on this board first doesn't mean that someone else here didn't know about said prospect before. Just saying.

 

[les Habs]

After I mentioned him among others in the prospect thread.

I knew of him and others though. You potentially forecasting intentions isn't my fault. A lot of the younger players I took are coming off of good seasons.

 

[YNWA14]

Just because you typed a prospects name on this board first doesn't mean that someone else here didn't know about said prospect before. Just saying.

Impossible.

 

[YNWA14]

I knew of him and others though. You potentially forecasting intentions isn't my fault. A lot of the younger players I took are coming off of good seasons.

Pfffff it was pretty suspect timing. Only one person who went and picked up some of those guys had the honour to give me credit! :p

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I remember LFC fans getting excited with the 19 years old Origi during the 2014 world cup...