Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wasn't he better last year than this year?

Thats possible. I might've been thinking of two seasons ago, but his first half to this season was certainly pretty bad. I think some like how his style of play more than his play because he really hasn't been anywhere near these top players in his age group, and he's not even been as good as some players in his age group on his own team. He's been worse than Tapsoba for the half season they've been teammates, but over the course of a full season, I don't know that he's been much better than Diaby either.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Thats possible. I might've been thinking of two seasons ago, but his first half to this season was certainly pretty bad. I think some like how his style of play more than his play because he really hasn't been anywhere near these top players in his age group, and he's not even been as good as some players in his age group on his own team. He's been worse than Tapsoba for the half season they've been teammates, but over the course of a full season, I don't know that he's been much better than Diaby either.

I'm no german expert just witnessing these guys for half a year Kai has been the best in his team by a fair margin.

As for his poor play 2 seasons ago... he was 18 with 9 assists and 3 goals. Nothing to crazy but definitely not bad for a teenager. I think we can all agree that Kai is insanely talented and could end up being better than Sancho or vice versa.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Mbappe isn't only better, he's in a tier above.
Sancho has more G+A than Havertz? No kidding? On a team that scores less and in a different position? Wow.

Have you watched Havertz play this season because he's been playing nearly every game in the front four? I think he's only played 3-4 games as a box to box midfielder. For the most part, they play the same positions. A #10 or #9 should have similar scoring numbers to a winger, especially a #10 in Bosz system. He simply hasn't been extremely productive offensively. A big streak in recent weeks is clouding a lot of people's judgment. Volland, Alario, Bailey, Bellarabi all have better per game numbers. Paulinho, as well, but his sample size is extremely limited. Havertz barely nudges out Diaby. Havertz simply hasn't been as good as some want to believe. The team doesn't struggle to score. All the attackers have good numbers. Havertz is far down the list though on his own team.

And thats not to say he isn't very talented and currently a good player, but you invoked his name in the same discussion as Sancho, and the production of Sancho as the best in Europe should be a big separator there. Havertz is still a player whose game is based on potential, and he still doesn't impact games as a world class player. Sancho is a year younger, and is already one of the best at his position in the world.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think we can all agree that Kai is insanely talented and could end up being better than Sancho or vice versa.

He could, and Sancho could end up better than Mbappe in a few years, as well.

 

[YNWA14]

I said it in the summer and I still believe that Sancho is in a similar tier to Mbappe. Clearly behind, but it's not a huge gap. As far as I'm concerned Sancho is clearly ahead of all the others on this list besides Mbappe. He's also 2 years younger than Mbappe and better when comparing at the same age. His goal contribution right now is almost at the same level as Mbappe and again, he's 2 years younger...and it seems weird to mention how good Dortmund is offensively as though PSG and Monaco don't have their way with the teams they face.

Havertz isn't at Sancho's level, IMO.

 

[Evilo]

Have you watched Havertz play this season because he's been playing nearly every game in the front four? I think he's only played 3-4 games as a box to box midfielder. For the most part, they play the same positions. A #10 or #9 should have similar scoring numbers to a winger, especially a #10 in Bosz system. He simply hasn't been extremely productive offensively. A big streak in recent weeks is clouding a lot of people's judgment. Volland, Alario, Bailey, Bellarabi all have better per game numbers. Paulinho, as well, but his sample size is extremely limited. Havertz barely nudges out Diaby. Havertz simply hasn't been as good as some want to believe. The team doesn't struggle to score. All the attackers have good numbers. Havertz is far down the list though on his own team.

And thats not to say he isn't very talented and currently a good player, but you invoked his name in the same discussion as Sancho, and the production of Sancho as the best in Europe should be a big separator there. Havertz is still a player whose game is based on potential, and he still doesn't impact games as a world class player. Sancho is a year younger, and is already one of the best at his position in the world.

Again, you have no idea how to project talent. Diaby doesn't come close to Havertz and I like Diaby.
And you can impact a game by many other ways than G or A.
Sancho and Havertz are totally comparable, people could like one or the other, that's anyone's choice.
Both are far far removed from Mbappe however.

 

[Evilo]

I said it in the summer and I still believe that Sancho is in a similar tier to Mbappe. Clearly behind, but it's not a huge gap. As far as I'm concerned Sancho is clearly ahead of all the others on this list besides Mbappe. He's also 2 years younger than Mbappe and better when comparing at the same age. His goal contribution right now is almost at the same level as Mbappe and again, he's 2 years younger...and it seems weird to mention how good Dortmund is offensively as though PSG and Monaco don't have their way with the teams they face.

Excuse me?
Are you serious here?

 

[YNWA14]

Excuse me?
Are you serious here?

Yes.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Tapsoba is hardly the best young CB in the world. There are plenty in front of him, including multiple frenchmen. Havertz is in another tier.

And frankly, anyone saying Sancho is in Mbappe's class should get their eyes examined. If needed, they played each other twice recently, and it was like comparing a man with a kid.

Good to see you back.
Sancho is close to be on Mbappe's class, let's not exaggerate here.
Reading some statements it would seem like comparing Messi to Ever Banega

 

[Evilo]

Yes.

How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...

First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.

See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[Gecklund]

How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...

First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.

See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.

 

[YNWA14]

How sad is it some people are commenting on football and writing things like that...

First you continue to say they're two years apart when they are in fact 1 year and 3 months apart.
So Sancho right now is 20 years old.
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).
That's not counting the eye test which is vastly different.

See, that's just sad. Just because you CAN write garbage doesn't mean you SHOULD.

In 17/18 which would be the same comparative season to what Sancho is having now:

Mbappe: 21 goals, 15 assists (including penalties won) in 3,554 minutes (46 appearances across all competitions) playing for one of the best offensive teams, and a completely dominant team domestically.
Sancho: 20 goals, 20 assist (including penalties won) in 2,961 minutes (39 appearances across all competitions) playing for a strong offensive team, but hardly a powerhouse like PSG.

Both are incredible talents. Opportunity of course does not preclude someone from being better from season to season. I love watching Sancho play, and Mbappe for me wasn't better at 20 than what Sancho is now. Just because you can be a DICK doesn't mean you SHOULD be one any time someone disagrees with you; that is way more sad than anyone having a different view.

 

[Evilo]

In 17/18 which would be the same comparative season to what Sancho is having now:

Mbappe: 21 goals, 15 assists (including penalties won) in 3,554 minutes (46 appearances across all competitions) playing for one of the best offensive teams, and a completely dominant team domestically.
Sancho: 20 goals, 20 assist (including penalties won) in 2,961 minutes (39 appearances across all competitions) playing for a strong offensive team, but hardly a powerhouse like PSG.

Both are incredible talents. Opportunity of course does not preclude someone from being better from season to season. I love watching Sancho play, and Mbappe for me wasn't better at 20 than what Sancho is now. Just because you can be a DICK doesn't mean you SHOULD be one any time someone disagrees with you; that is way more sad than anyone having a different view.

Sorry you're wrong.
By the end of the 2017/2018 season Mbappe was 19 and a half.
Sancho is playing 1/3rd of this season as a 20 year old.

So again, you're wrong.
You can check the stats I gave you up there. THOSE are the good ones. And they tell you the whole story.

So you can post garbage as much as you want, there's no need to use skewed numbers.
This year is where Sancho turns from 19 to 20 during the season, right?
Well Mbappe turned from 19 to 20 last year. 33 L1 goals (6 assists), 4 CL goals (4 assists), 5 NT goals (3 assists).

Again, no need for lies to try to desperately prove a point everyone except 2 posters can see is plain wrong.

 

[Evilo]

I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.

He has 63 career pro assists.

In total in 180 club games, he has 117 goals and 55 assists. He adds 13 goals and 8 assists in 34 NT games.

 

[YNWA14]

Sorry you're wrong.
By the end of the 2017/2018 season Mbappe was 19 and a half.
Sancho is playing 1/3rd of this season as a 20 year old.

So again, you're wrong.
You can check the stats I gave you up there. THOSE are the good ones. And they tell you the whole story.

So you can post garbage as much as you want, there's no need to use skewed numbers.
This year is where Sancho turns from 19 to 20 during the season, right?
Well Mbappe turned from 19 to 20 last year. 33 L1 goals (6 assists), 4 CL goals (4 assists), 5 NT goals (3 assists).

Again, no need for lies to try to desperately prove a point everyone except 2 posters can see is plain wrong.

They always play according to their birth year, which is what I'm using. I'm not 'wrong', it's the way that it's measured everywhere. I gave you the relevant stats compared to their same developmental seasons; you chose stats across multiple seasons and did it according to what you prefer to hedge your argument on. You're not going to agree and that's fine. You decry using a season where Sancho played all of the pre-lockout football (which means all but what...2-3 games?) as a 19 year old, but you'll take the stats from when Mbappe turned 20 at the beginning of the season to compare against this one? This is why birth years are used at every step as that's what academies use, and would mark their level of development.

So again, this is my view and my preference. Your stats are not what I am referring to nor do they mark the same developmental point in time that I was referring to either.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I agree with you but one thing that I’m wondering about is assists. I know Sancho has had a ton of assists to go along with his goals. If I get a chance today or later (start a new job in an hour so don’t know how long I’m going to be there ) I’ll find them and post them but just one other thing to consider. But I do agree that Mbappe is the clear best young player in the world by a gap.

congrats on the job bud

 

[Evilo]

They always play according to their birth year, which is what I'm using. I'm not 'wrong', it's the way that it's measured everywhere. I gave you the relevant stats compared to their same developmental seasons; you chose stats across multiple seasons and did it according to what you prefer to hedge your argument on. You're not going to agree and that's fine. You decry using a season where Sancho played all of the pre-lockout football (which means all but what...2-3 games?) as a 19 year old, but you'll take the stats from when Mbappe turned 20 at the beginning of the season to compare against this one? This is why birth years are used at every step as that's what academies use, and would mark their level of development.

So again, this is my view and my preference. Your stats are not what I am referring to nor do they mark the same developmental point in time that I was referring to either.

Measured where exactly?
You compare players' stats using their age. So why would one be 9 months older in one comparison rather than the other being 3 months older?

My stats TOTALLY use their development since it was everything they had achieved in the season they turned 20.
Let me state that AGAIN for good measure :
When Mbappe was 20 years old he had already :
- scored 62 goals in L1 (Sancho 30).
- scored 14 goals in CL (Sancho 3).
- scored 13 goals with the NT (Sancho 2)
-scored multiple key goals in a WC (Sancho 0).

That was at the end of the season during which they turned 20. Since the season is not over right now, Sancho can actually add to it. I however doubt he scores 30 more goals in Bundesliga, 11 more goals in CL (wait, he's already out) and 11 more goals with the NT by the end of this season.

 

[YNWA14]

Again, I'm not sure what cumulative stats up to this age has to do with anything. That's all based on opportunity, teams they play for, roles in those teams, etc.

I always go by birth year because experience wise that's where they'll be at the same stage developmentally as far as soccer is concerned. Physically they might not be the same level of development, but Mbappe was very advanced physically already so I think that's hardly an excuse to try and shift their relative seasons.

I think 19/20 Sancho is better than 17/18 Mbappe. I don't know that he'll become as good as Mbappe is but he's in the same tier of player and definitely above the others in the list.

 

[Evilo]

So the fact one player is alreay dominant enough at age 17 to destroy CL teams is SUPPOSED to be a disadvantage in your reasonning.
Not the same tier, Sancho not as good in the season they turned 20 and NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Sancho's domestic league scoring rates were strikingly similar to Mbappe's in age 19 and age 20 seasons:

Sancho 19/20: Goal+assist every 59.9 minutes Mbappe 18/19: Goal+assist every 58.6 minutes

Sancho 18/19: Goal+assist every 94.8 minutes Mbappe 17/18: Goal+assist every 99.9 minutes

As for the CL, scoring is decisively in Mbappe's favor. I don't think Sancho has been disappointing in the CL. Maybe a little in 18/19. Dortmund just played so many lethargic games or games where their rudimentary tactics/weak midfield were exposed and they had way less possession than they're used to against worse teams. IMO it's also harder to take away Mbappe's off ball movement/pace+finishing, and Sancho likes to slow the game down to dribble too much. I'm confident that barring injury he will put together a very good CL campaign sooner than later. Mbappe was definitely better at age 19 and 20 though.

 

[Evilo]

Yes, he was, which was the whole discussion.
That doesn't take away anything from Sancho either. That's like saying Lewandowski is as good as Messi. He's not, but he's a great player.

 

[Pensionsraddare]

Who cares. Mbappe will stay and dominate in farmers his entire career and never win CL while Sancho sooner or later are going to end up playing in the best league in the world.

Kulusevski is better than both btw

 

[Lambo]

Who cares. Mbappe will stay and dominate in farmers his entire career and never win CL while Sancho sooner or later are going to end up playing in the best league in the world.

Kulusevski is better than both btw

1. PL is the most famous league in the World. But not the best.
2. La Liga is the best league in the wordl
3.PL is not much better than Bundesliga
4.With a PL-Klub like ManUnited Sancho also never win the CL.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Luka Romero apparently called up for the Barca game.... of all the times a player can make his debut lol. Lets see what the hype is.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Luka Romero apparently called up for the Barca game.... of all the times a player can make his debut lol. Lets see what the hype is.

The real new Messi.