Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread V

[YNWA14]

Reinier first as a pro

How has he been this season? Still high on his potential?

 

[robertmac43]

Are there any good strikers from the German lower leagues that should be on peoples radars?

 

[John Pedro]

How has he been this season? Still high on his potential?

This was his third or fourth game as a pro, Flamengo is stacked (Bruno Henrique, Arrascaeta, Everton Ribeiro, Gabigol), there isn't much room for him.

 

[cgf]

Best of his French generation perhaps. It's nearly impossible to claim any U17 talent to be the best in the world. They all compete at so many different levels. Anyone who does needs to put down the homer goggles.

Agreed. Moukoko is obviously the best of that generation, globally

 

[cgf]

Are there any good strikers from the German lower leagues that should be on peoples radars?

Depends on what you mean by lower leagues. There are some kids that could get some NT caps in the BuLi2, but the only one coming to mind below that who is already playing above the youth level & should start making noise in the near future would be Franck Evina...only, he opted for Cameroon this past winter...

David Otto is on loan in the 2nd division, and I've always liked him. Not world-class unless he can get there in a Klose-y way; i.e. via hyper-efficiency...but a Volland-esque ceiling of NT-backup caliber forward is certainly possible and I might be higher on him than I am Selke in the long run if I had to bet on one of them to actually contribute to the NT...as I can totally see Selke spending a while as the token "plan B" striker...but realistically I still think that Otto is more in line with the Füllkrug & Uth's of the world than with the Kruse & Stindl's.

Other BuLi2 strikers that have some fans in german youth football include Krüger, Serra, & Knöll, but I don't really rate the last two and between injuries & stagnation, I don't see a NT future for Krüger either...although he could still put it together later to become an Uth or Füllkrug caliber player. When it comes to pure strikers with NT-starter potential our top prospects are still Moukoko, Eggestein & Arp.

Though there are a lot more wingers / shadow strikers with NT-claiber talent; who could end up leading the line for us (like Gnabry currently is). That list is much denser; featuring the likes of Batista Meier, Dajaku, Kühn, Massimo, Hartmann & Yeboah, starting to make the jump to the senior level...alongside the likes of Dardai, Bias, Jastrzembski, Goller, Herrmann, Pohlmann & Biskup; who also have NT potential & their fans, although I'm not nearly as high on them as the first set.

Plus there are the next age groups, many of whom (also) see a lot of their top talents occupying winger/2nd striker/AM -spots...kids like Mika Schroers, Luca Barata, Lazar Samardzic, Mehmet-Can Aydin, David Hummel, etc.

 

[YNWA14]

Depends on what you mean by lower leagues. There are some kids that could get some NT caps in the BuLi2, but the only one coming to mind below that who is already playing above the youth level & should start making noise in the near future would be Franck Evina...only, he opted for Cameroon this past winter...

David Otto is on loan in the 2nd division, and I've always liked him. Not world-class unless he can get there in a Klose-y way; i.e. via hyper-efficiency...but a Volland-esque ceiling of NT-backup caliber forward is certainly possible and I might be higher on him than I am Selke in the long run if I had to bet on one of them to actually contribute to the NT...as I can totally see Selke spending a while as the token "plan B" striker...but realistically I still think that Otto is more in line with the Füllkrug & Uth's of the world than with the Kruse & Stindl's.

Other BuLi2 strikers that have some fans in german youth football include Krüger, Serra, & Knöll, but I don't really rate the last two and between injuries & stagnation, I don't see a NT future for Krüger either...although he could still put it together later to become an Uth or Füllkrug caliber player. When it comes to pure strikers with NT-starter potential our top prospects are still Moukoko, Eggestein & Arp.

Though there are a lot more wingers / shadow strikers with NT-claiber talent; who could end up leading the line for us (like Gnabry currently is). That list is much denser; featuring the likes of Batista Meier, Dajaku, Kühn, Massimo, & Yeboah, starting to make the jump to the senior level...alongside the likes of Hartmann, Dardai, Jastrzembski, Goller, Herrmann, Pohlmann, Bias & Biskup, who also have NT potential; although I'm not nearly as high on them as the first set.

Plus there are the next age groups, many of whom (also) see a lot of their top talents occupying winger/2nd striker/AM -spots...kids like Mika Schroers, Luca Barata, Lazar Samardzic, Mehmet-Can Aydin, David Hummel, etc.

Do you rate Evina better than Zirkzee? I noticed that Bayern II kept Zirkzee over Evina for this season and has been giving him minutes.

 

[cgf]

Do you rate Evina better than Zirkzee? I noticed that Bayern II kept Zirkzee over Evina for this season and has been giving him minutes.

I see the dutchman as a lot more of a pure 9 type player at the senior level, while Evina I see as a forward who will be able to thrive all across a front 3; so it can be a little tricksy to compare them...

...but I definitely rate Evina more than Zirkzee, even if I focus on comparing them to what they are. I've never really been all that high on Zirkzee, while Evina has pretty much always impressed me in some way when I've watched his matches...plus I prefer his archetype. The skill, tenacity/craftiness & burst are there in spades to become an impact player if he wants it & isn't derailed by injuries / poor-career-choices.

I'm pretty sure that that is why, instead of keeping him with Bayern II; which had just been promoted to the 3rd division; he was loaned to a club that finished comfortably in the middle of the 3rd division table last season...a club for whom he has 4 goals & an assist after 7 games; in which he has averaged more than 80min/game.

That said, I do think Dajaku has moved ahead of Evina over the past year & has really made a push for OBM's title of the most exciting german 2001er...although I still rate OBM's potential more. So Bayern poaching Dajaku, on top of adding Davies, is probably what forced Evina to need a loan, instead of splitting his time between training with Bayern & playing for Bayern II -- with the potential for 1st team cameos -- like Batista-Meier, Davies & Dajaku are doing this season.

 

[YNWA14]

I see the dutchman as a lot more of a pure 9 type player at the senior level, while Evina I see as a forward who will be able to thrive all across a front 3; so it can be a little tricksy to compare them...

...but I definitely rate Evina more than Zirkzee, even if I focus on comparing them to what they are. I've never really been all that high on Zirkzee, while Evina has pretty much always impressed me in some way when I've watched his matches...plus I prefer his archetype. The skill, tenacity/craftiness & burst are there in spades to become an impact player if he wants it & isn't derailed by injuries / poor-career-choices.

I'm pretty sure that that is why, instead of keeping him with Bayern II; which had just been promoted to the 3rd division; he was loaned to a club that finished comfortably in the middle of the 3rd division table last season...a club for whom he has 4 goals & an assist after 7 games; in which he has averaged more than 80min/game.

That said, I do think Dajaku has moved ahead of Evina over the past year & has really made a push for OBM's title of the most exciting german 2001er...although I still rate OBM's potential more. So Bayern poaching Dajaku, on top of adding Davies, is probably what forced Evina to need a loan, instead of splitting his time between training with Bayern & playing for Bayern II -- with the potential for 1st team cameos -- like Batista-Meier, Davies & Dajaku are doing this season.

Yeah I remember we spoke briefly about Dajaku before you took your hiatus as well as a few others. I'll keep an eye on them thanks!

 

[cgf]

Yeah I remember we spoke briefly about Dajaku before you took your hiatus as well as a few others. I'll keep an eye on them thanks!

Yeah, I had heard some things about Stuttgart's academy that gave credence to my concerns about the players they'd been producing being able to adapt to other styles of play; prior to some changes they've made recently(ish). So I was a little skeptical of Dajaku & Hummel actually making the most of their talent when all was said & done as I was skeptical that they had changed enough, but both had shown serious talent & Dajaku has done nothing but prove his quality so far...neither has Hummel either really, he's just not as far along as Dajaku. So I've been warming up to both of them & Dajaku in particular.

It'll be interesting to see if Bayern does end up rebuilding their 1st team through the transfer front, or if their stubbornness about adapting to the market causes them to stumble ass-backward into another clutch of "homegrown" starters; with the likes of Dajaku, Arp & Davies sure to be branded with that label if they become stars after having spent "some" time with Bayern II...not to mention that Mai & OBM would actually deserve it.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah, I had heard some things about Stuttgart's academy that gave credence to my concerns about the players they'd been producing being able to adapt to other styles of play; prior to some changes they've made recently(ish). So I was a little skeptical of Dajaku & Hummel actually making the most of their talent when all was said & done as I was skeptical that they had changed enough, but both had shown serious talent & Dajaku has done nothing but prove his quality so far...neither has Hummel either really, he's just not as far along as Dajaku. So I've been warming up to both of them & Dajaku in particular.

It'll be interesting to see if Bayern does end up rebuilding their 1st team through the transfer front, or if their stubbornness about adapting to the market causes them to stumble ass-backward into another clutch of "homegrown" starters; with the likes of Dajaku, Arp & Davies sure to be branded with that label if they become stars after having spent "some" time with Bayern II...not to mention that Mai & OBM would actually deserve it.

Lars Lukas Mai actually really intrigues me. I've not seen as much of him as I'd like, but when I have he's the closest thing to a van Dijk comparison I have seen at youth level. Very big, seems extremely calm, good on the ball and commanding in his zone. Maybe I'm wrong and just caught some good games but I can't see him not becoming at least a very good player.

 

[cgf]

Lars Lukas Mai actually really intrigues me. I've not seen as much of him as I'd like, but when I have he's the closest thing to a van Dijk comparison I have seen at youth level. Very big, seems extremely calm, good on the ball and commanding in his zone. Maybe I'm wrong and just caught some good games but I can't see him not becoming at least a very good player.

Nah that's pretty representative of how he's looked at the youth levels most of the time. He, Torunarigha & Aidonis (if VFB really have gotten their shit together) are probably our most exciting CB prospects who haven't yet broken out at the senior level. But there's still so much growth ahead and there's still so much up to chance; like Tah, who could be in the discussion for best CB in the sport right now if he had been learning from one of the great coaches these past 3-4 seasons. So it'll be interesting to see who from that Tah / Süle / Kehrer / Mai / Torunarigha / Aidonis / etc. group, makes the most of their potential.

 

[John Pedro]

Matheus Cunha is pretty good. Brazil's Olimpic team facing Chile (winning 3-1 so far, Matheus brace and Antony). The kid is pretty skilled, fast and has got a knack for scoring. Hopes Leipzig gives him more PT or maybe loan him out.

 

[cgf]

Matheus Cunha is pretty good. Brazil's Olimpic team facing Chile (winning 3-1 so far, Matheus brace and Antony). The kid is pretty skilled, fast and has got a knack for scoring. Hopes Leipzig gives him more PT or maybe loan him out.

I think he'll get PT when the CL action kicks up. Leipzig play with two forwards and Cunha is one of their 4 options for those two spots. As Werner & Poulsen need to be rotated/get injured, Cunha & Schick will get their chances to show off.

 

[Ajacied]

Oranje U19 drew Italy 2-2 a few days ago. Zirkzee scored one of 'm. The game marked the debut of Maxim Gullit, son of Ruud. Doesn't nearly have his upside, but always fun to watch players like that develop.

Yesterday, Oranje U19 played Portugal. Zirkzee scored a hattrick as they stomped Portugal 4-0. Score was a bit flattered, but Zirkzee was impressive. I liked Gravenberch as well. He didn't even seem to try but is so dominant out there. Sepp van de Berg had a decent game but made an error when he passed it to his goalkeeper a bit too short. Bakker (GK) saved the penalty. A few other high potentials in this squad are Besuijin (Roma) and I like Jurriën Timber, too. I think they lack depth after that. Not sure about their chances for the EC, but their core is very impressive and in form.

Oranje's future is so freaking impressive right now. Especially like the fact they have their fair share of world class talents at #9 and #10 again. Oranje, rather oddly, were lacking in those positions these past few years.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah I know in the circle I visit that the Timber brothers are rated pretty highly.

 

[Ajacied]

Yeah I know in the circle I visit that the Timber brothers are rated pretty highly.

Yes, very sound players. I rate Jurriën just a tad more. Quinten is a Nigel de Jong copy when he was younger and I think his versatility will eventually hurt him a bit. Both might crack Ajax in the next few years.

Also, watched Oranje U18 play Mexico on Monday. That team is just insane. I see 10 starters that should make Oranje one day and usually I see no more than 2/3. Despite the score (1-2 loss), I've never seen that team play so dominant before. They put up 25 shots to just 3 from Mexico and especially in the first half, had attacks of with that typical Barcelona/Ajax-DNA. Unuvar scored. I do feel they miss Brobbey, who's out injured. Clear cut favorites to win the EC once again, but still some question marks who will replace Brobbey's dominance up front.

 

[robertmac43]

. I see 10 starters that should make Oranje one day and usually I see no more than 2/3. Despite the score (1-2 loss), I've never seen that team play so dominant before. They put up 25 shots to just 3 from

Is the eleventh player that is not making the team the GK?

 

[Ajacied]

Is the eleventh player that is not making the team the GK?

Yes..

I haven't been impressed by the goalkeepers coming up through the youth ranks so far. It's been a real issue.

 

[John Pedro]

I think he'll get PT when the CL action kicks up. Leipzig play with two forwards and Cunha is one of their 4 options for those two spots. As Werner & Poulsen need to be rotated/get injured, Cunha & Schick will get their chances to show off.

gonna be fun watching them in the CL. They're my Bundesliga team since they got Nagelsmann

 

[cgf]

gonna be fun watching them in the CL. They're my Bundesliga team since they got Nagelsmann

Yeah, it'll be fun just to watch Nagelsmann learn...even if I feel like their midfield lacks a maestro at the 6. Luckily their group isn't prohibitively tilted against them, so they should be a good watch, even if they don't go deep.

Plus as more & more of those players learn how Nagelsmann wants them to play, the versatility in that roster could be really interesting for Nagelsmann to play around with.

 

[Ajacied]

Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.

 

[YNWA14]

Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.

I'd have let Gravenberch finish the season in Ajax II. They've got plenty of midfielders at the moment and he didn't exactly dominate that league last season. I'm a believer in allowing for a 'big fish small pond' season to build confidence and identity -- not everyone needs it, obviously, but I think it helps more often than not, especially if he won't be getting first team minutes.

 

[Ajacied]

I'd have let Gravenberch finish the season in Ajax II. They've got plenty of midfielders at the moment and he didn't exactly dominate that league last season. I'm a believer in allowing for a 'big fish small pond' season to build confidence and identity -- not everyone needs it, obviously, but I think it helps more often than not, especially if he won't be getting first team minutes.

Well, with Eiting being so injury prone, Dani de Wit being sold and Marin stinking up the place there's still some room left. Gravenberch could see more minutes than you'd think. Martinez and Alvarez are pretty much the only other CM's and both are often used as defenders as well. Ajax is also more ball dominant than Ajax II, so it would be easier to work on his game, in particular his decision making and transition game, which is still a bit underdeveloped. I also think he still looks a bit uncomfortable in his big body after his grow spurt, but he has all the traits to be a world class player someday. I think this move signals Gravenberch getting a serious look as a sub and perhaps a starter vs weaker opponents/Cup games. Ten Hag is not afraid to play teenagers.

Gravenberch had an interesting 2018/2019 campaign, though. He's learned a lot already. Made his debut for Ajax and became the youngest goalscorer in Ajax history; played an excellent first half of the season in the Keuken Kampioen Divisie and kind of wore himself out the second half - All this at barely 16 years old.

 

[Ajacied]

Gravenberch (17), Lang (20) and Dest (18) just got promoted to Ajax I for the remainder of the season. Hoping to see more of them as they have been very impressive. Dest should be Ajax' first RB option. Lang is seen as Ziyech's successor. Gravenberch might see some minutes if Marin keeps stinking up the place.

.. and Unuvar got to practice with the big boys as well. Kid was still 15 two months ago.

 

[YNWA14]

Unuvar is incredible. Really hope he makes good on his talent as he's got generational potential.