So who *are* the NHL's generational players?

Eisen

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Sep 30, 2009
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Talking generational talents, Jagr went for what 5 Art Ross in a row, ended second in points to Gretzky. Probably had to go for 10 straight to get on your list :D

btw Dominik Hasek
Jagr is just in the tier below those 4 (if you add Jagr, what about Esposito?). Hasek is hard for me. I often think about adding him.
In the end, I reserve the term for the elite of the elite, otherwise we have to make tiers in tiers and convolute things.
 

BadgerBruce

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Aug 8, 2013
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Obviously you don't know what a slap shot to the face and a serious neck injury can stop guaranteed awards.
While the last thing I’m trying to do is play the “Player A overcame worse injuries than Player B,” 3 of the consensus top 4 dealt with everything from a near-death brain hemorrhage (Howe) to cancer (Lemieux) to 10+ knee surgeries (Orr).

Worth remembering Howe’s near death experience:

“Detroit Red Wings star Gordie Howe suffered a near-fatal injury during the opening game of the playoffs at Olympia Stadium on March 28, 1950.

Howe crashed into the boards headfirst and had to be carried away on a stretcher as fans in the stands silently watched, shocked.

It was three days before his 22nd birthday.
The brain hemorrhage Howe suffered landed him in critical condition at Harper Hospital; he also had a broken nose, a shattered cheekbone and a seriously scratched right eye. His mother was summoned to his side.

Emergency neurosurgery to relieve the pressure saved his life, along with some time in an oxygen tank.

According to legend, Howe apologized to coach Tommy Ivan.”

Flashback: Mid-game accident left Gordie Howe close to death

Again, I’m not playing the injury counting game. So many great players have been seriously injured during their careers, and their accomplishments stand out even more in light of this.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Some people leave him out, more people are ok with having 2 generational players from one period of time if they equally talented/sucessful.
He's not equal, and if you claim that something is disqualifying, you can't randomly pick and choose when to apply that anyway.
 

Nathaniel

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Oct 18, 2013
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While the last thing I’m trying to do is play the “Player A overcame worse injuries than Player B,” 3 of the consensus top 4 dealt with everything from a near-death brain hemorrhage (Howe) to cancer (Lemieux) to 10+ knee surgeries (Orr).

Worth remembering Howe’s near death experience:

“Detroit Red Wings star Gordie Howe suffered a near-fatal injury during the opening game of the playoffs at Olympia Stadium on March 28, 1950.

Howe crashed into the boards headfirst and had to be carried away on a stretcher as fans in the stands silently watched, shocked.

It was three days before his 22nd birthday.
The brain hemorrhage Howe suffered landed him in critical condition at Harper Hospital; he also had a broken nose, a shattered cheekbone and a seriously scratched right eye. His mother was summoned to his side.

Emergency neurosurgery to relieve the pressure saved his life, along with some time in an oxygen tank.

According to legend, Howe apologized to coach Tommy Ivan.”

Flashback: Mid-game accident left Gordie Howe close to death

Again, I’m not playing the injury counting game. So many great players have been seriously injured during their careers, and their accomplishments stand out even more in light of this.
How many players match crosbys award case? Not too mention all the other elite years. Be along time until another player like Crosby comes around. Don't think mcdavid will have the playoff pedigree and elite longevity like Crosby has to this day
 

keglu

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Jul 11, 2014
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He's not equal, and if you claim that something is disqualifying, you can't randomly pick and choose when to apply that anyway.

Im pretty sure his peak is considered better then Crosby's
But lets hear your definition of generational and how Matthews qualifies.
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Im pretty sure his peak is considered better then Crosby's
Not really, and regardless, that would open it to quite a few players if generational status was only based on a high peak.
But lets hear your definition of generational and how Matthews qualifies.
There are many different definitions and I didn't say Matthews qualifies under every definition. I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies in how people were applying their own criteria.
 

Eisen

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What's your argument against Richard and Hasek other than you being a millennial?
I'm GenX. Richard's regular season is just too weak. Playoffs Richard would be. I often think about adding Hasek but never do. He has an astounding peak, I just don't know how to compare goalies and skaters to comfortably put him there.
 

keglu

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Jul 11, 2014
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Not really, and regardless, that would open it to quite a few players if generational status was only based on a high peak.

There are many different definitions and I didn't say Matthews qualifies under every definition. I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies in how people were applying their own criteria.

There was poll here few months ago about best seasons in last 20 years or something and im pretty sure Ovi season won and another one was in Top 5
So there is that.
Maybe one definition where Matthews qualifies?
 

DueDiligence

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Nov 16, 2013
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You can be a generational talent, you just didn't prove it yet.

Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux where generational talent before setting a foot in the nhl, if the WHA never collapse, maybe Gretzky play all is career outside the nhl, he would still have been a generational talent.
Nonsense. How many guys were spectacular players as teenagers but that never translated to the NHL.
some examples:
1)Pavel Brendl
He scored 73 goals and 134 points for the WHL's Calgary Hitmen during the 1998-99 season. Brendl followed that up with 59 goals and 111 points in 1999-00. Played just 78 NHL games.
2) Daniel Tkachuk
The 1999 World Junior Championships boasted some pretty impressive names, including Brian Gionta and Simon Gagne. One name you might not recognize is Daniel Tkaczuk. The young center led Team Canada in scoring and went on to be selected sixth overall by the Flames in the 1997 draft. Tkaczuk also excelled in the OHL during this time. He scored 145 goals and 334 points in 238 games for the Barrie Colts. He played a total of 19 NHL games.
3) Nail Yakupov - 1st OA pick
OHL
First All-Rookie Team2011[9]
Rookie of the Year2011[9]
CHL Rookie of the Year2011[10]
CHL Top Draft Prospect Award2012
Third All-Star Team2012
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

hoglund

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Dec 8, 2013
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I'm GenX. Richard's regular season is just too weak. Playoffs Richard would be. I often think about adding Hasek but never do. He has an astounding peak, I just don't know how to compare goalies and skaters to comfortably put him there.
Goalies should be there too like Hasek, Price, Joseph and Belfour.
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Nonsense. How many guys were spectacular players as teenagers but that never translated to the NHL.

Well it is semantic, the did not prove it yet part is not to be skip.


Talent is the natural ability/aptitude of someone:

Definition of TALENT
Definition of talent
1a: a special often athletic, creative, or artistic aptitude
b: general intelligence or mental power : ABILITY
2: the natural endowments of a person

Gretzky was a once in generation level of talent at 11, 13, 16, 17 is natural aptitude and top ceiling that was possible to achieve with is body-brain to play the sport of hockey never changed, what changed was proven it, say the WHA never fold and he play is career with them, that change nothing to is talent, just how much it is proven and demonstrated to the world change.

Also none of your example are close to teenage Gretzky here, Gretzky scored 182 points, completely dominated is team scoring by more than 50%:
Soo Greyhounds 1977-78 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com
Player NamePos.GPGAPtsPIMGPGAPtsPIMBirthplaceAge
Wayne GretzkyC637011218214 ONT: Brantford16
Dan LucasW61506711790 BC: Powell River19
Paul ManciniL6754379129 ONT: Scarborough19
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Has a 16-17 year's old.

That a tier different than Brendl:
#Player NamePos.GPGAPtsPIM+/-GPGAPtsPIMBirthplaceAge
8Pavel BrendlL68736113440682021254618Czech Rep.: Opocno17
20Brad MoranC71605811896552117254226BC: Abbotsford19
2Matt KinchD68146983165021723308ALTA: Red Deer18
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gretzky in is 17-18 year's old season he was close to lead a league of professional adult in scoring.


I am not sure there is a single example of Gretzky level of spectacular that did not turned out great, but that a bit of different question anyway.
 

Goomba

Mario is a Devils fan
May 7, 2021
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Lmao at Matthews and Bednard’s inclusion

Only guys currently in the league that are generational are Crosby, Ovi, and McDavid
Im most certainly not a Tampa Bay fan, but id argue Vasilevskyi is getting there

we sometimes forget but theres been a generational goaltender at most points in the NHLs existence. Id even argue Lundqvist was one.
 

Boxscore

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Obviously you don't know what a slap shot to the face and a serious neck injury can stop guaranteed awards.
Right. Yet Orr won 8 consecutive Norris Trophies, some of them while playing on badly injured knees. Mario couldn't even tie his skates and dominated. Heck, Mario battled cancer, missed time for treatments, and still returned to win the scoring title -- scoring at Gretzky's 215 point-per-game pace.

But Crosby got injured over a couple of seasons and that's why he only won 2 titles? Take his 2 titles, and throw out the 2 years he was seriously injured -- that's 4 years out of a 15 year career so far. How about the other 11? Or was Sid just being outscored by other players then? I mean, Ovechkin is 30+ years old and still had a stranglehold on the Rocket Richard until a year ago.

If we're going with the injury excuse, then let's label Lindros and Bossy generational.

Like I said, Crosby will go down as one of the best players to ever play -- but he's not on the level of Howe, Orr, Gretz, Mario and those guys. He never was and never will be. Those guys are generational -- they come along once in a lifetime.
 
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DueDiligence

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Nov 16, 2013
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I am not sure there is a single example of Gretzky level of spectacular that did not turned out great, but that a bit of different question anyway.
Not sure what you are saying here? I am quite sure that 98% of the great players in the NHL were great players when they were young. My point was that many more players were great players when young but didn't amount to much as a pro let alone become a generational talent. The jury is out on Connor Bedard; he is tracking to be a great player but can't be labeled a generational talent yet.
 

iamjs

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Oct 1, 2008
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You can be a generational talent, you just didn't prove it yet..

That's nonsense. If that's the case, 98% of the league could be generational.

We're just waiting for them to prove it, right?
 

koyvoo

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Nov 8, 2014
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Mackinnon
Ovechkin
Crosby
Matthews
Draisatl
McDavid

are generational
Generational players, in or out of generational form currently playing in the NHL-

Sidney Crosby
Alexander Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Connor McDavid
 
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MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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That's nonsense. If that's the case, 98% of the league could be generational.

We're just waiting for them to prove it, right?

Are you suggesting that Wayne Gretzky would have died in a car crash at 18, that Wayne Gretzky didn't had a level of talent that occur very rarely, once in a generation or less type of frequency ? And that we would just have never known for sure ?
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Not sure what you are saying here? I am quite sure that 98% of the great players in the NHL were great players when they were young. My point was that many more players were great players when young but didn't amount to much as a pro let alone become a generational talent. The jury is out on Connor Bedard; he is tracking to be a great player but can't be labeled a generational talent yet.

Great but not Gretzky rare, at every level he was a tier rarely seen (if ever)...My point is that generational talent is inherent to the DNA and brain of the individual, talent is something you are in big part born with, what you do with your career is proof it, would you have never played in the nhl (thing the soviet) at all or die very young or retire has nothing to do with it.
 

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