So what's the plan going forward now?

CLK Wolverines

Registered User
Jun 29, 2017
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I have never had this feeling for this team. When I was kid they were just plain horrible and I never won.

How has this team fallen so fast and so badly.

I can’t see the playoffs any time soon.
 

SirloinUB

Registered User
Aug 20, 2010
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Another way of saying that is the Wings have used less than half of the picks that might actually do something in the NHL on defensemen. When the existing group is this bad, and there are no prospective top pair kids in the system, that's not prioritizing the need enough.

There's nothing wrong with being thrilled over landing Zadina. But unless it's an OMG 1st line center at the top of the draft (Hughes or otherwise), the next 12 months need to highly prioritize quality for the blue line.

In general I agree, We need to inject talent, especially at top of the draft

But rebuilds are dynamic and you never know what opportunities will present themselves Zadina and Veleno sliding for example. It’s important to be flexible when rebuilding and I’m a big believer in BPA especially in the top 10.
 

JoesuffP

Registered User
Feb 3, 2016
521
278
Part of me wants Holland to go after Faulk and Green and make the playoffs but I know tanking another year would be the better in the long run. Them being a bottom feeder team also means Mantha and Larkin aren’t growing which is concerning
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,959
8,711
Part of me wants Holland to go after Faulk and Green and make the playoffs but I know tanking another year would be the better in the long run. Them being a bottom feeder team also means Mantha and Larkin aren’t growing which is concerning
It's completely possible for both Larkin and Mantha to push for a (deserved) All Star nomination, while the defense is porous enough and the rest of the offense anemic enough to keep them a bottom 5 team.
 

odin1981

There can be only 1!
Mar 8, 2013
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Canton Mi
Say we win the draft next year and get Hughes :help:. The next 1-2 years we have to go hard after top 2 potential pairing defenders. Though the one good thing is if some of the newly drafted centers get to a top 6 or better level we can then potentially package 1, plus a pick, plus a salary offset for a guy like Faulk, Doughty or similiar veined defender.

Centers have value in trades to get top 2/4 defenders where as wingers unless elite really don't. So from a positive perspective hopefully we can acquire at least 1 good d-man from a second contract rfa center.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
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I have never had this feeling for this team. When I was kid they were just plain horrible and I never won.

How has this team fallen so fast and so badly.

I can’t see the playoffs any time soon.

You do understand that it's extremely rare for a team to last as long on top as Detroit did, right?

We were due for awhile. This draft put a boost on the rebuild. Detroit will be back in it in 3-5 years.
 

JoesuffP

Registered User
Feb 3, 2016
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I don’t see how Detroit could acquire another 1st rounder next year unfortunately... Maybe Nielsen if they retain some salary or Nyquist has 40 goals at the TDL but I doubt it. They’ll probably end up with more picks than last year though
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
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I don’t see how Detroit could acquire another 1st rounder next year unfortunately... Maybe Nielsen if they retain some salary or Nyquist has 40 goals at the TDL but I doubt it. They’ll probably end up with more picks than last year though

Depending on what the winger market looks like at next years deadline, Nyquist could easily pull in a late 1st.

IMO, it won't be a 1st, but they can probably get a surprising return for Jensen too.
 

shanman

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
171
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Depending on what the winger market looks like at next years deadline, Nyquist could easily pull in a late 1st.

IMO, it won't be a 1st, but they can probably get a surprising return for Jensen too.

i think nyq has a legitimate shot at getting a 1st from a contending team at the deadline. Think they will feel he is a 50 point scorer that would do much better being surrounded by better talent. Really feel his pretty good overall game would mesh well, and he always has a high amount of assists considering the scoring problems we have had last couple of years it seems. They might see his 30 assists or so he gets here as something they could add on easily, plus he has potential for 20-30 goals if he were to be playing with better teammates. Just saying what they might feel about him.

And think jensen would be worth a decent amount, considering his contract and value.
 

odin1981

There can be only 1!
Mar 8, 2013
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Depending on what the winger market looks like at next years deadline, Nyquist could easily pull in a late 1st.

IMO, it won't be a 1st, but they can probably get a surprising return for Jensen too.

If Nyquist waives I hope we can snag a 1st of a team that looks to be a 1st round elimination so we can get a pick in the high teens/low 20's.
 

Killerjas

Registered User
Mar 6, 2017
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Step 1: Tank for another top 5 pick in the 2019 draft
Step 2: Trade Nyquist and AA for a 1st or a 2nd round pick (per player) in the 2019 draft
Step 3: With your 2 or 3 1st round picks, draft some quality players in the 2019 draft
Step 4: Offload your ageing players who have massive contracts
Step 5: In Free Agency, look for some players who can help our young forward develop. Have some veteran or friendly contracts (1 to 3 years max)
Step 6: Be competitive in the 2019-2020 season
 

Outl4w

Registered User
Dec 16, 2011
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Step 5: In Free Agency, look for some players who can help our young forward develop. Have some veteran or friendly contracts (1 to 3 years max)
Vanek will be resigned.
 

obey86

Registered User
Jun 9, 2009
8,013
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Step 1: Tank for another top 5 pick in the 2019 draft
Step 2: Trade Nyquist and AA for a 1st or a 2nd round pick (per player) in the 2019 draft
Step 3: With your 2 or 3 1st round picks, draft some quality players in the 2019 draft
Step 4: Offload your ageing players who have massive contracts
Step 5: In Free Agency, look for some players who can help our young forward develop. Have some veteran or friendly contracts (1 to 3 years max)
Step 6: Be competitive in the 2019-2020 season

I would add one thing, go after Erik Karlsson in free agency next offseason if he makes it. Sure, it's unlikely he comes here, but you have to try IMO. They will have the cap space to do so. Nyqvist (4.75), Vanek (3), Kronwall (4.75), and Howard (5.2) all come off the books after this season.

A team with say, Jack Hughes (we got lucky), added to the forward group and Erik Karlsson is good IMO.
 
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NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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I would add one thing, go after Erik Karlsson in free agency next offseason if he makes it. Sure, it's unlikely he comes here, but you have to try IMO. They will have the cap space to do so. Nyqvist (4.75), Vanek (3), Kronwall (4.75), and Howard (5.2) all come off the books after this season.

A team with say, Jack Hughes (we got lucky), added to the forward group and Erik Karlsson is good IMO.
If we get Hughes and Karlsson then the rebuild is over.
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,474
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I have never had this feeling for this team. When I was kid they were just plain horrible and I never won.

How has this team fallen so fast and so badly.

I can’t see the playoffs any time soon.

Its been a long slow death since 2010. Were you in a coma? lol
 

Heaton

Moderator
Feb 13, 2004
22,548
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Auburn Hills
I feel good about our forwards now, but we need to focus on the defense. Holland needs to make an effort and actually make something happen to start fixing the defense. He's been sheepish making trades, but now's the time to use some of our assets to address an issue.
 

shanman

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
171
35
Amazing how quick holland killed any momentum moving forward from the draft. We are now looking at a spot here and there to integrate youth. Ridiculous for a rebuilding team. And before anybody comes in with we can't just throw youth out there and get them caved in and destroy them crap, just don't. Our youth guys know it will be a challenge, but at some point you have to get them in there and let them learn by doing. As for trades, until i see holland be proactive on a larger scale than a move here or there, im not holding my breath. Especially when he goes out and just brings players backs, or adds to the veteran count. Man cannot help himself in free agency.

There is now pretty much no chance, assuming z comes back of course, that we see ras, zadina, and svech all up to start, when arguably all 3 should be. Ras shouldn't go back to juniors, svech has seen enough up and down GR time and needs to be given a legitimate shot at the nhl level-not playing on some dumbass 4th line, and zadina needs to be up with the team that couldn't score consistently last season.

And seriously holland. You just couldn't help bringing Green back huh. God forbid we get that black-hole defense and 30-35 points. Just don't have enough veteran presence on the backline. What the hell was the point of the Daley signing? Dude can literally provide pretty much the same point-wise as green if we put him on the PP, and actually plays a little defense compared to green. Daley, Kronwall, Ericsson, and jensen just not enough veteran presence for you? Man just god forbid we have 2 youth guys in the starting lineup on the backline. Hate for them to get "caved in" (which never ever ever happened to our vet laden defense last year). Now we get to choose between one of hicketts, sulak, hronek, or cholowski this year. Until "injuries happen". Oh-but better hope it is a serious injury or else they will prob just put shitkowski back there.

Fine with bernier signing, needed a goalie and goalies are weird youthwise anyways.

But seriously. I don't want to hear the excuses for bringing back our failed veteran guys. We had plenty with a pretty damn veteran group already. If holland makes a trade or two i will revisit it, but i am just sick and tired of the status quo and not giving youth a chance to succeed-especially in the one area where we have consistently been one of the worst teams in the national hockey league.
 

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,872
891
London
Looking at the Red Wings FA signings this season, I don't have the same angst as some, in part because for both KH and the Red Wings organisation the word 'rebuild' was never going to be synonymous with 'tank'.
We know this because Holland has always maintained that a competitive environment with as few 'dead' games as possible is vital for player development and avoiding the decade plus slumps of Edmonton, Arizona and others. I suppose the altered odds of the lottery system make this an easier view to take. Certainly the only teams for who the fire-sale tank has worked have been those who have augmented existing top 10 picks with a generational or similar level prospect.
While I suspect most of us would fancy chasing Jack Hughes, there are other factors at play...
  • empty seats at LCA...no concourse is so interesting for 6 months.
  • Trying to convince Zetterberg to stay at least until Ras or Veleno are ready to be NHL centers
  • The team's contractual situation going forward.
The latter situation is the most interesting. The summer of 2019 will be the first one where the Wings start to climb out from under poor value contracts. It also gives more possible trading assets if the season mirrors the previous one.
Sure Kronner won't get traded, but Bernier's term greatly increases the chance of losing Howard as a rental if this team remains as far away as we think. Nyquist's situation is also interesting. We know Vanek has limited trade value at the deadline, but having seen the return for Tatar, the prospect of getting a late first or a second and a third for even a rental Nyquist is not implausible.
Much depends on the decision of our Captain. One has to assume that a decision not to return, or a mid season decision to call time on things come the summer would have several impacts.
Quite apart from it representing, along with the end of Howard, Nyquist and Kronwall's contracts, the dying embers of the Swedish dominated team of perennial contenders, it would also enforce a sea change.
With those departing it becomes the team of Larkin, Mantha, and which ever kids convince most this season. It also forces questions to be asked about those other guys, nearer the end than the start of their careers, who will never be team leaders. Helm, Abby, Ericsson, Daley.
Even without Z hanging up his skates, much of this potential roster change will be natural wastage given the contract situations, which is exactly why Wings fans need not panic about these signings. While it's likely that only 1 or 2 youngsters make the line-up on opening night, as Holland suggests, there is a good chance several see good NHL exposure this season, with 3-4 being regulars at the season's end. Unless the team shows major improvement and is clear into the playoffs, there is a good chance 2-3 established roster players will not be at the club in April. There's no way the wings re-up Howard or Nyquist on their current salaries, and Jensen will be looking over his shoulder too.
And that's ignoring the significant potential for injury on this roster given its age and the injury records of a number of the players.
I DO agree that Ras and Zadina, injury permitting should get at least the 9 games to be looked at, which should give us a good indication of their readyness, and if Z doesn't return, it gets easier to trade Nyquist from the organisation's standpoint.
I also think it's vital that Hronek and Cholo get at least a look, as come the summer of 2020 it might only be DDK of our current back line on the roster.
I am confident, however, that both these things will happen.
 

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