So what's the plan going forward now?

[Henkka]

Xavier Ouellet officially bought out.

It's kind of favor for a player, because this move has bigger caphit penalty for the Team than just simple waivering would have done.

Caphit penalties split for 2 years:

1st year - 167k
2nd year 217k

Xavier Ouellet - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Just waivering him would have been 225k extra caphit for 1 season. Now that will be 385k combined.

 

[iDangleDangle]

Trade Howard, go through the next season with a horrible netminding duo. Bottom out, draft a 1C/1D.

Later utilize the winger surplus via the trade market if possible.

 

[ricky0034]

https://www.mlive.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/06/cc338b19d81040/will_red_wings_trade_a_forward.html



DeKeyser + ? <> Faulk

McDavid?

 

[Shaman464]

I think our future D core is this:

Cholowski - XXX
DeKeyser - Hronek
McIsaac/Hicketts - XXX (Jensen short-term)

Neeed two righties (1 ELITE, or at least elite on PP like Faulk) to pan out or got from free agency/trade.

Cholowski's chances of being a #1 defenseman are remote. I would pencil him in at as #4 at this point.

 

[shanman]

Cholowski's chances of being a #1 defenseman are remote. I would pencil him in at as #4 at this point.

kind of weird to just cast off the idea of a 1st round pick being anything more than a number 4 guy. 20th overall selection no slob there. We shall see how he progresses

 

[Shaman464]

kind of weird to just cast off the idea of a 1st round pick being anything more than a number 4 guy. 20th overall selection no slob there. We shall see how he progresses

His tools don't point to a top pairing guy. What all of the scouting reports I've seen, and what I have seen all agree with this; "Reliable two-way second pairing defenceman that can effectively play in the top four." All of the reports, scouts, and how he's looked to this point say he's going to be a solid second pairing guy who can help run a PP. That's not a bad pick up with the pick they traded back to.

Some more quotes: "very solid second pairing defenseman at the NHL level."

"Expect him to emerge as a solid, second-pairing defender who plays a polished, smart game."

 

[shanman]

His tools don't point to a top pairing guy. What all of the scouting reports I've seen, and what I have seen all agree with this; "Reliable two-way second pairing defenceman that can effectively play in the top four." All of the reports, scouts, and how he's looked to this point say he's going to be a solid second pairing guy who can help run a PP. That's not a bad pick up with the pick they traded back to.

to me that doesnt screw number 4, merely he prob won't be the next lidstrom.

And i could really see the wings rocking more of a balanced defensive rotations vs a top heavy defensive rotation. Would really prefer that vs the old fashioned idea of a top pairing that has to dominate everything/

 

[Shaman464]

to me that doesnt screw number 4, merely he prob won't be the next lidstrom.

And i could really see the wings rocking more of a balanced defensive rotations vs a top heavy defensive rotation. Would really prefer that vs the old fashioned idea of a top pairing that has to dominate everything/

And the top players in the league would love to burn a team full of #3-4 defensemen. You might prefer it, but there's a reason why no team does it. A good example of that is what the Wings looked like just after Lidstrom retired, that was a team with a lot of middle pairing guys, and the team was pretty shit.

The team needs a top defender. If they can find a franchise #1 then they can have 3 #3's behind him and that's okay, but defense by committee when that committee is all #3's is how you end up being a bubble team.

 

[shanman]

And the top players in the league would love to burn a team full of #3-4 defensemen. You might prefer it, but there's a reason why no team does it. A good example of that is what the Wings looked like just after Lidstrom retired, that was a team with a lot of middle pairing guys, and the team was pretty ****.

really no team does it? Not even say perhaps the vegas knights who just made it to the finals?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

That top 9 when we get Lafreniere and Hughes the next two years

Lafreniere Hughes Zadina
Mantha Larkin Ras
Berggren Veleno Bertuzzi

 

[Shaman464]

really no team does it? Not even say perhaps the vegas knights who just made it to the finals?

Catching lightning in the bottle, superior coaching and a goaltender posting a 93% save percentage and Schmidt emerging as a top pairing guy went a long way towards that. And to give you an idea, their defense wasn't very good, they were as close to the top defensive team as the Wings were to the Knights in GA. They didn't play world burning defense, but instead scored a lot of goals (they tied with Pittsburgh and outscored Washington in the regular season) and had a goalie that played like a man on fire the whole season. There are very few people who think having every player click every game is a tenable model.

 

[shanman]

Catching lightning in the bottle, superior coaching and a goaltender posting a 93% save percentage and Schmidt emerging as a top pairing guy went a long way towards that. And to give you an idea, their defense wasn't very good, they were as close to the top defensive team as the Wings were to the Knights in GA. They didn't play world burning defense, but instead scored a lot of goals (they tied with Pittsburgh and outscored Washington in the regular season) and had a goalie that played like a man on fire the whole season. There are very few people who think having every player click every game is a tenable model.

yet they still made it all the way. Besides this idea of long term success really isn't something a lot of teams have. Unless we are talking about the penguins, blackhawks, or maybe the kings going back like 10 years of cup wins. I merely disproved your statement that a team can't go far with a d corps that splits the duties evenly. Perhaps vegas takes a step back this year, or maybe they continue on and make playoffs yet again. Who knows. With how hockey season and playoffs are i dont quite buy the whole luck aspect. Vegas won a crapton of games. Playoff hockey is long and demanding. Hot goaltending has always been a playoff factor. We shall see if they can keep it up, but wouldn't count on them suddenly becoming a trash team in vegas.

 

[Shaman464]

yet they still made it all the way. Besides this idea of long term success really isn't something a lot of teams have. Unless we are talking about the penguins, blackhawks, or maybe the kings going back like 10 years of cup wins. I merely disproved your statement that a team can't go far with a d corps that splits the duties evenly. Perhaps vegas takes a step back this year, or maybe they continue on and make playoffs yet again. Who knows. With how hockey season and playoffs are i dont quite buy the whole luck aspect. Vegas won a crapton of games. Playoff hockey is long and demanding. Hot goaltending has always been a playoff factor. We shall see if they can keep it up, but wouldn't count on them suddenly becoming a trash team in vegas.

Their defense wasn't that good. The regular stats and the advanced stats point to them being carried by great team offense and a goaltender that wanted to prove he was still a top guy. As for long term success? Stringing together two good seasons isn't long term success. In the end pointing at Vegas as some model of the new way of building a defense (which you shouldn't for the reasons mentioned above), there isn't a team that tries to win with defense by committee.

 

[shanman]

Their defense wasn't that good. The regular stats and the advanced stats point to them being carried by great team offense and a goaltender that wanted to prove he was still a top guy. As for long term success? Stringing together two good seasons isn't long term success. In the end pointing at Vegas as some model of the new way of building a defense (which you shouldn't for the reasons mentioned above), there isn't a team that tries to win with defense by committee.

say whatever you want, use whatever excuses you want, i merely disproved your statement that no team has EVER done that. They did. Mainly because they didn't exactly have another option as an expansion team. Don't really feel like arguing about Vegas in depth.

And my point about long term success is every team of course wants to have stud dmen like a prime TPH. Yet all these teams who have what people call "#1" dmen really havent had much success winning cups lately. Best dman on a cup winning team of last decade is what duncan keith? Kris letang? Cups are being won with elite offensive talent like crosby/malkin or kane/toews, with a team built around that with as much talent as possible. Hence i'm not worried about what strategy the wings decide to use. Perhaps cholo hits carlson level and we ride him getting a huge point bump in a contract year like washington did with carlson.

 

[Shaman464]

say whatever you want, use whatever excuses you want, i merely disproved your statement that no team has EVER done that. They did. Mainly because they didn't exactly have another option as an expansion team. Don't really feel like arguing about Vegas in depth.

And my point about long term success is every team of course wants to have stud dmen like a prime TPH. Yet all these teams who have what people call "#1" dmen really havent had much success winning cups lately. Best dman on a cup winning team of last decade is what duncan keith? Kris letang? Cups are being won with elite offensive talent like crosby/malkin or kane/toews, with a team built around that with as much talent as possible. Hence i'm not worried about what strategy the wings decide to use. Perhaps cholo hits carlson level and we ride him getting a huge point bump in a contract year like washington did with carlson.

I never said no team has ever done it, I said no team does it when trying to contend. No one expected Vegas to contend this year. It was lightning in a bottle. And your 'they didn't have any other option' literally proves my point. No team tries to do it that way. For the exact reason why they didn't want to do it. So you didn't disprove anything, you just burned down your strawman.

And Doughty? Chara? And don't discount Keith, in his prime he was top 5 in the league. So basically since 2008 the team's that have won it's top defenders were Lidstrom, Keith, Chara, Doughty, Letang and Carlson. Out all the top defnders one is for sure not a hall of famer, and you might not say Letang is a top ten defender in the league. Seems like the teams that have won it over the last decade all had some pretty elite defenders anchoring their defense.

 

[jkutswings]

That top 9 when we get Lafreniere and Hughes the next two years

Lafreniere Hughes Zadina
Mantha Larkin Ras
Berggren Veleno Bertuzzi

From your lips to Bettman's ears. Hughes is gonna be crazy to see:

Why Jack Hughes is the top-ranked 2019 NHL draft prospect

 

[shanman]

I never said no team has ever done it, I said no team does it when trying to contend. No one expected Vegas to contend this year. It was lightning in a bottle. And your 'they didn't have any other option' literally proves my point. No team tries to do it that way. For the exact reason why they didn't want to do it. So you didn't disprove anything, you just burned down your strawman.

And Doughty? Chara? And don't discount Keith, in his prime he was top 5 in the league. So basically since 2008 the team's that have won it's top defenders were Lidstrom, Keith, Chara, Doughty, Letang and Carlson. Out all the top defnders one is for sure not a hall of famer, and you might not say Letang is a top ten defender in the league. Seems like the teams that have won it over the last decade all had some pretty elite defenders anchoring their defense.

Personally i dont consider letang, doughty, or chara anywhere near the level of lidstrom. Keith maybe being a step above the rest in closeness to TPH. Absolutely would not consider doughty HOF, think kings just have a good playoff system of defensive strategy plus playoff beas in quick. Not a huge fan of chara, and bruins only had the one cup anyways. Letang is so tough to figure out, IMO he merely complimented the system of the pens. Don't really see him as a stud HOF game by any means. Will have the cups on his resume but tough to figure out how much they are all riding on crosby.

And im not saying we dont want a stud dman. Of course we do. I merely think we should try and develop ours to their full potential, and then make minor tweaks to roster to supplement what we need. My main point/idea was that we shouldn't make drastic trades with our forwards in search of this idea that we have to get that stud guy at all costs.

 

[Henkka]

From your lips to Bettman's ears. Hughes is gonna be crazy to see:

Why Jack Hughes is the top-ranked 2019 NHL draft prospect

We will skip him for a defenceman.

 

[jkutswings]

Personally i dont consider letang, doughty, or chara anywhere near the level of lidstrom. Keith maybe being a step above the rest in closeness to TPH. Absolutely would not consider doughty HOF, think kings just have a good playoff system of defensive strategy plus playoff beas in quick. Not a huge fan of chara, and bruins only had the one cup anyways. Letang is so tough to figure out, IMO he merely complimented the system of the pens. Don't really see him as a stud HOF game by any means. Will have the cups on his resume but tough to figure out how much they are all riding on crosby.

And im not saying we dont want a stud dman. Of course we do. I merely think we should try and develop ours to their full potential, and then make minor tweaks to roster to supplement what we need. My main point/idea was that we shouldn't make drastic trades with our forwards in search of this idea that we have to get that stud guy at all costs.

You're correct in saying that it's possible to build a very good roster without an elite #1D. But while ratings are inherently subjective, I don't see a player or prospect in the system that I'd want to one day give 20 minutes a night, let alone 25-30.

 

[shanman]

You're correct in saying that it's possible to build a very good roster without an elite #1D. But while ratings are inherently subjective, I don't see a player or prospect in the system that I'd want to one day give 20 minutes a night, let alone 25-30.

we shall see. People seem to be high on carlson even though he was drafted lower in the first round than cholo and was pretty much a 37-39 point a season player until his contract year, despite playing with what was generally a good offensive team in washington. I hope cholo and hronek keep developing, and am excited to see what their level is. Just don't think we can pidgeonhole them into a certain role before they have even experienced the nhl. Maybe im being too optimistic, but just hoping that this time they hit their peaks

 

[Marky9er]

Bowen Byram?

 

[JoesuffP]

I think the Wings will acquire their #1 D as the final piece through trade or FA. If a Dougie Hamilton type D man popped up on the market 2-3 years from now they’d have the assets and be ready to win with a #1 in there prime. Right now it doesn’t make sense to go after a high end defensemen until they can afford to lose good assets and have the rest of the team figured out. Just keep hoping they get lucky with a D prospect and keep hoarding assets

 

[chances14]

khan says the wings will most likely trade for a top 4 dman with AA being the one most likely traded

https://www.mlive.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/06/cc338b19d81040/will_red_wings_trade_a_forward.html

 

[lilidk]

They could trade Svechnikov+Athanasiou+Ouellet for Faulk.

Then sign Vanek as a 1-year stopgap.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Bertuzzi
Rasmussen - Larkin - Mantha
Vanek - Nielsen - Zadina
Helm - Glendening - Abdelkader
(Witkowski, Turgeon, Pope)

DeKeyser - Faulk
Ericsson - Daley
Kronwall - Hronek
(Hicketts , Jensen)

Howard
Back-up

Put Vileno instead of Vanek

 

[Syckle78]

say whatever you want, use whatever excuses you want, i merely disproved your statement that no team has EVER done that. They did. Mainly because they didn't exactly have another option as an expansion team. Don't really feel like arguing about Vegas in depth.

And my point about long term success is every team of course wants to have stud dmen like a prime TPH. Yet all these teams who have what people call "#1" dmen really havent had much success winning cups lately. Best dman on a cup winning team of last decade is what duncan keith? Kris letang? Cups are being won with elite offensive talent like crosby/malkin or kane/toews, with a team built around that with as much talent as possible. Hence i'm not worried about what strategy the wings decide to use. Perhaps cholo hits carlson level and we ride him getting a huge point bump in a contract year like washington did with carlson.

Keith, Chara, doughty,lidstrom,pronger, Letang Carlson. Which team has won a cup without a legit number one franchise defenseman again?