Speculation: So what should we give up to get Nikita Gusev back?

[DaBolts]

An interesting perspective at PHT but if Point is given an absurd offer sheet (say $11 million x7) from Montreal or Detroit, should we trade one or two of the #1 picks to Vegas to get him back or?

Golden Knights could give up a gem if they trade Gusev

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[These Are The Days]

Pick and prospect. They can otherwise f*** off if that's not acceptable because he will just go back to the KHL if VGK keep messing him around. They cannot possibly sign him and we have more to give in futures (which is all VGK can take) than any team in the NHL.

Something like Raddysh+2nd is more than generous. Gusev ain't gonna wait forever. He can go back to Russia and get filthy rich there

 

[Armchair GM]

Gusev to Avs bois.

 

[Master P]

Nothing. I don't think he is worth the risk. I would rather add a forward with size. I don't trust him to stay in the NHL either.

 

[DaBolts]

Nothing. I don't think he is worth the risk. I would rather add a forward with size. I don't trust him to stay in the NHL either.

I hope you're wrong because if Kuch spends more time with him, we could set up a Russian Assassin line with those two together that could last for several years.

Or better yet...

The KGB line:

Kucherov-Gusev-Braden

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Meh.

 

[God King Fudge]

Not a thing. It'd be awful asset management to give the guy away to protect Slater f'n Koekkoek and then turn around and spend assets to get him back.

The ship has sailed. Gusev isn't going to play in Tampa.

 

[These Are The Days]

I hope you're wrong because if Kuch spends more time with him, we could set up a Russian Assassin line with those two together that could last for several years.

Or better yet...

The KGB line:

Kucherov-Gusev-Braden

We have that with Gourde and it's pretty friggin sweet too. That is a legitimately good line and a good complement to Stamkos/Johnson, who usually play well together.


But what to do about effing Palat...

 

[These Are The Days]

Don't forget boys this guy is likely Panarin levels of good. You put him with Stamkos and it'll be fireworks. It is absolutely worth considering.

You put Point with Kucherov on the other line and you're good to go

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Can we stop the Point offer sheet he's not going anywhere

 

[DaBolts]

We have that with Gourde and it's pretty friggin sweet too. That is a legitimately good line and a good complement to Stamkos/Johnson, who usually play well together.


But what to do about effing Palat...

Can we trade Palat to the KHL?

 

[These Are The Days]

Can we trade Palat to the KHL?

Sometimes I wish

 

[DFC]

We already have like five of those.

 

[ccman68]

A small mediocre skater has no place in the NHL. There is a reason we only ever offered him an ahl contract.

 

[Todd1a]

When can’t afford him

 

[LightningStrikes]

Too small, too expensive.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

This guy proved insane chemistry with the MVP of the league and somehow it is a bad move to reacquire him. If it makes the team better you go get him, baffles me that people rather go acquire a plug like Simmonds instead of him. If TB scouting team followed that mentality we would have never signed Johnson, drafted Kuch, Point...
I guess we better spend 7 millions on Ferland so we are more physical on the playoffs (not the reason we lost but hey, if that makes you sleep better at night, so be it)

 

[LightningStrikes]

Gusev is an interesting case. He dominated the KHL and international tournaments. But couldn't make the NHL with Tampa or Vegas. There also seems to be a little bit of entitlement going on with him, refusing to play and establish himself in the AHL (as opposed to Kucherov for example - and all it took him was 17 games) before coming to the NHL. Then again, if an elite KHL team like SKA waves at you with their big paycheck who can blame him for going there instead of Syracuse. He'll earn more there, it's his home country, he's a (local) star over there and not just some (unknown) kid with potential, gets to play with other (local) stars, 1st class travel and hotels instead of bus rides etc.

 

[FinnLightning26]

Would love to get Gusev back. Him and Kucherov could be one of the deadliest duos in the league. I read somewhere he wants 4M on a two year contract. IMO that's a risk worth taking if we can clear space. Even if he isn't cut out for NHL, we could easily mutually terminate the contract so he can go back to KHL. He'll make money regardless if he plays in the NHL or KHL.

 

[Todd1a]

We don’t need another Smurf

 

[DFC]

There's plenty of skill on this team already. We need a little more balance.

 

[These Are The Days]

Gusev is an interesting case. He dominated the KHL and international tournaments. But couldn't make the NHL with Tampa or Vegas. There also seems to be a little bit of entitlement going on with him, refusing to play and establish himself in the AHL (like Kucherov - and all it took him was 17 games) before coming to the NHL. Then again, if an elite KHL team like SKA waves at you with their big paycheck who can blame him for going there instead of Syracuse. He'll earn more there, it's his home country, he's a (local) star over there and not just some (unknown) kid with potential, gets to play with other (local) stars, 1st class travel and hotels instead of bus rides etc.

Entitlement? The guy was 24 years old and just destroyed a league better than the AHL. We had no idea what we had in Kucherov on the other hand. The guy was nothing more than a prospect with a chip on his shoulder. What kind of sales pitch would it be if the Angels told Ohtani, who was the best non-MLB player in the world, "We know how good you are. But we want you to start in AAA. But wait! Wait! Then you're gonna be a featured member of our team!" No dude. Stop. Players are perfectly capable of developing outside of the AHL and North America itself. The fact that Gusev did so to such a degree is what made himself special in the first place. I know Ohtani is not the best comparison but I know the guy wasn't gonna come from the other side of the world for bus rides in the minors. When we didn't come to an agreement, Gusev hedged his bets on himself, went back and did EVEN BETTER.... and now the guy is worth even more than what he would have been years ago. For as much as an organization may not like it, when players prove themselves to that level you have to treat them differently. For a guy that played with the likes of Fedorov I would've thought Yzerman knew that and understood that. Dude went straight to the Wings and NEVER looked back. Amazing how he was good enough eh?

For as long as Yzerman tells the Gusev's of the world "Yeah so you're gonna have to play in Grand Rapids first" he's gonna get the finger. If the guy pulls a Panarin we're gonna look like total idiots. If he pulls a Plotnikov not a soul on earth is gonna be crying about it, they'll be surprised because he's better than Plotnikov could have ever hoped to be.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Entitlement? The guy was 24 years old and just destroyed a league better than the AHL. We had no idea what we had in Kucherov on the other hand. The guy was nothing more than a prospect with a chip on his shoulder. What kind of sales pitch would it be if the Angels told Ohtani, who was the best non-MLB player in the world, "We know how good you are. But we want you to start in AAA. But wait! Wait! Then you're gonna be a featured member of our team!" No dude. Stop. Players are perfectly capable of developing outside of the AHL and North America itself. The fact that Gusev did so to such a degree is what made himself special in the first place. I know Ohtani is not the best comparison but I know the guy wasn't gonna come from the other side of the world for bus rides in the minors. When we didn't come to an agreement, Gusev hedged his bets on himself, went back and did EVEN BETTER.... and now the guy is worth even more than what he would have been years ago. For as much as an organization may not like it, when players prove themselves to that level you have to treat them differently. For a guy that played with the likes of Fedorov I would've thought Yzerman knew that and understood that. Dude went straight to the Wings and NEVER looked back. Amazing how he was good enough eh?

For as long as Yzerman tells the Gusev's of the world "Yeah so you're gonna have to play in Grand Rapids first" he's gonna get the finger. If the guy pulls a Panarin we're gonna look like total idiots. If he pulls a Plotnikov not a soul on earth is gonna be crying about it, they'll be surprised because he's better than Plotnikov could have ever hoped to be.

Re: the bold part: You have to consider draft position (= scouting reports), the time line and some other factors though. I'll try:

Kucherov was a 2nd round pick in 2011 after one season in the KHL. He played 2011-12 in the KHL, then 2012-13 in the QMJHL and in 2013-14 he played in the AHL. After 17 games he 'earned' a call-up and ultimately became a regular on the Lightning lineup (on the bottom-6 mind you). It wasn't until 2014-15 when he eventually fought his way onto our top-6 and became part of the notorious Triplets / TKO line.

Gusev was a 7th round pick in 2012 after two seasons in the KHL. He didn't really break out as a star in the KHL until maybe 2015/2016. Four to five years later. A small kid with lots of skill and potential, but also with lots of open questions surrounding him. Efforts by the Lightning to bring him over to North America failed. In 2016-17 he broke the point-per-game plateau in the KHL and established himself as one of the best active players outside of the NHL. That's also when Yzerman & Co. again failed to lure him over to NA and eventually traded him to Vegas to keep their actual roster intact during the expansion draft.
Even with Vegas holding his rights he stayed in Russia until April 14, 2019 - so not even three months ago - when Vegas signed him to a 1-year ELC. In their seven playoff games he did not dress though.

Judging from draft position alone, Kucherov was easily the safer bet between the two. Kucherov also almost immediately came over to NA and fought his way thru the QMJHL to the AHL and eventually to the NHL and then up the lineup. Gusev never showed that kind of determination or even willingness until a mere three months ago. And even then he was a big enough question mark for Vegas to not play in a single game for them.

 

[DFC]

Entitlement? The guy was 24 years old and just destroyed a league better than the AHL. We had no idea what we had in Kucherov on the other hand. The guy was nothing more than a prospect with a chip on his shoulder. What kind of sales pitch would it be if the Angels told Ohtani, who was the best non-MLB player in the world, "We know how good you are. But we want you to start in AAA. But wait! Wait! Then you're gonna be a featured member of our team!" No dude. Stop. Players are perfectly capable of developing outside of the AHL and North America itself. The fact that Gusev did so to such a degree is what made himself special in the first place. I know Ohtani is not the best comparison but I know the guy wasn't gonna come from the other side of the world for bus rides in the minors. When we didn't come to an agreement, Gusev hedged his bets on himself, went back and did EVEN BETTER.... and now the guy is worth even more than what he would have been years ago. For as much as an organization may not like it, when players prove themselves to that level you have to treat them differently. For a guy that played with the likes of Fedorov I would've thought Yzerman knew that and understood that. Dude went straight to the Wings and NEVER looked back. Amazing how he was good enough eh?

For as long as Yzerman tells the Gusev's of the world "Yeah so you're gonna have to play in Grand Rapids first" he's gonna get the finger. If the guy pulls a Panarin we're gonna look like total idiots. If he pulls a Plotnikov not a soul on earth is gonna be crying about it, they'll be surprised because he's better than Plotnikov could have ever hoped to be.

There's a long list of guys who put up very good numbers in the KHL who couldn't do the same in the NHL. Gusev might transition easily. He might not. Removing the AHL option was not the best move at the time, and might still not be.

But regardless, numbers aren't our problem. Gusev would just be more of the same. If teams are shutting down Point and Kucherov 5v5, they're sure as hell going to shut down Gusev and Kucherov.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The over hyping of Gusev is absolutely unreal.