So is everyone opposed to expansion?

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Profit potential is key to luring investors. They never live in reality.

then why haven't they booted the Moose out if Chipman essentially built MTS Centre for the Moose then if the NHL wants so bad TO BE BACK in Winnipeg, NO One fan here has answered the question to any satisfaction why would Mark Chipman dump his own franchise and major tenant for a return to the NHL, OTHERWISE Winnipeg Arena WOULD STILL BE here and not a parking lot.

No one here has answered the question where do u move the current Manitoba Moose and then how do u deal with Vancouver and their prospects if they're not in Winnipeg

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That's bang on correct....not to mention the new MTS Center currently hold 15,505 and has 45 suites. The building can be expanded to to 17,505 and they can add another 20 suites because that was built into the original design of the building.

Winnipeg is a perfect hockey market and so is Quebec City if they ever could build a new building.

Wildcat:

Where do u move the Moose to then have to deal w/ the Canucks why have the Moose been accepted in a building that was designed for them, not the NHL,

 

[saskganesh]

Wildcat:

Where do u move the Moose to then have to deal w/ the Canucks why have the Moose been accepted in a building that was designed for them, not the NHL,

please use English. its a wonderful language.

if you remember: few cared about the fate of the Moose when the Wild got their franchise. further, minor-league affiliation agreements are always renegotiated. not an issue.

Nonis said Moose governor Mark Chipman's interest in pursuing NHL hockey is not a deterrent to signing a new agreement

"If the NHL returns to Winnipeg, then God bless them," said Nonis.

Winnipeg Sun

anyway, dollar for dollar, I am sure there are more compelling expansion options elsewhere.

 

[OG6ix]

Winnipeg will never get a NHL franchise again.

 

[HansH]

No one has EVER pointed to a credible source for the claim that the MTS can be expanded to 17,505 -- every single source used has been shown to be counting floor seats for concerts, not seats used when ice is in the arena.

So, can we please kill that myth once and for all?

 

[wildcat48]

No one has EVER pointed to a credible source for the claim that the MTS can be expanded to 17,505 -- every single source used has been shown to be counting floor seats for concerts, not seats used when ice is in the arena.

So, can we please kill that myth once and for all?

It's not a myth -- When the building was constructed, it was constructed with what was called a "soft ceiling"...

They can lift the roof and add 2,000 seats.

It was part of the building plans that the City of Winnipeg has on file, in fact at last year's ASG...They gave the media a tour of the facility and that was one of the big points they spoke too in hope of landing a NHL franchise.

Hutch,

MTS Centre wasn't built primarily with the Moose in mind, it was built to replace an aging Winnipeg Arena....That place as special as it was, it was falling apart.

Also the Moose moved from Minnesota to Winnipeg so they can move anywhere else and Vancouver can either go or not.....If Chipman can lure an NHL team, he could give a rats-booty where the Moose go.

 

[jamiebez]

It's not a myth -- When the building was constructed, it was constructed with what was called a "soft ceiling"...

They can lift the roof and add 2,000 seats.

It was part of the building plans that the City of Winnipeg has on file, in fact at last year's ASG...They gave the media a tour of the facility and that was one of the big points they spoke too in hope of landing a NHL franchise.

As far as I know, this is not true. Sorry. If so, I'm sure it would have been reported in the media by now, and I haven't seen it out there. Please correct me if I'm wrong and you can find a source, since I was a big supporter of a bigger arena to begin with....

They can't just raise the ceiling, they have to expand "out" as well, so the seats in the upper deck don't pitch forward too steeply. The building is crammed into a downtown city block, so in order to do that, they have to annex one or more city streets. And, it's not a question of just lifting the ceiling, but the entire roof. The roof trusses are designed for the existing structure, so this would be very expensive.

What is true, however, is they have a plan to add another row of 12 luxury suites below the current row of press boxes, bringing the total to 60. There are a few other extra places in the existing building where they could cram more seats, but probably about 500 at most.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It's not a myth -- When the building was constructed, it was constructed with what was called a "soft ceiling"...

They can lift the roof and add 2,000 seats.

It was part of the building plans that the City of Winnipeg has on file, in fact at last year's ASG...They gave the media a tour of the facility and that was one of the big points they spoke too in hope of landing a NHL franchise.

Hutch,

MTS Centre wasn't built primarily with the Moose in mind, it was built to replace an aging Winnipeg Arena....That place as special as it was, it was falling apart.

Also the Moose moved from Minnesota to Winnipeg so they can move anywhere else and Vancouver can either go or not.....If Chipman can lure an NHL team, he could give a rats-booty where the Moose go.

big ? Wildcat is If and why would Chipman buy into the Moose if he does acquire an NHL Franchise for Winnipeg IF HE DIDN'T care about buying the Moose they'd need another owner if Chipman acquires an NHL franchise but why would he turn his back on Winnipeg if he believes the NHL can work in Winnipeg---it would be akin to the Jets leaving for Phoenix, then Glendale, it would make more sense to retain the Moose in Winnipeg.

 

[octopi]

I'm completly exposed to expansion. As it is, some teams don't even play each other once in the season. Oh, and watered down talented pool....

 

[wildcat48]

As far as I know, this is not true. Sorry. If so, I'm sure it would have been reported in the media by now, and I haven't seen it out there. Please correct me if I'm wrong and you can find a source, since I was a big supporter of a bigger arena to begin with....

They can't just raise the ceiling, they have to expand "out" as well, so the seats in the upper deck don't pitch forward too steeply. The building is crammed into a downtown city block, so in order to do that, they have to annex one or more city streets. And, it's not a question of just lifting the ceiling, but the entire roof. The roof trusses are designed for the existing structure, so this would be very expensive.

What is true, however, is they have a plan to add another row of 12 luxury suites below the current row of press boxes, bringing the total to 60. There are a few other extra places in the existing building where they could cram more seats, but probably about 500 at most.

Then the city of Winnipeg lied to the media, because I was part of the tour and they made it a point to show us the ceiling and process by which they would go through in order to add seats.

Either way, I see Winnipeg as a viable NHL hockey market.


Hutch,

HUH?

A) Why and how is Chipman turning his back on Winnipeg? If he acquires into an NHL franchise isn't he improving the hockey in Winnipeg?

B) Minor league franchise are bought and sold all the time...It part of the reason why these owners buy them. Because they are investments that earn value and can be sold for a profit.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Then the city of Winnipeg lied to the media, because I was part of the tour and they made it a point to show us the ceiling and process by which they would go through in order to add seats.

Either way, I see Winnipeg as a viable NHL hockey market.


Hutch,

HUH?

A) Why and how is Chipman turning his back on Winnipeg? If he acquires into an NHL franchise isn't he improving the hockey in Winnipeg?

B) Minor league franchise are bought and sold all the time...It part of the reason why these owners by them. Because they are investments that earn value and get be sold for a profit.

Because you haven't said Wildcat everytime someone brings up Winnipeg as a viable NHL Market, no one here has stated what is the future of Chipman's current tenants, the Moose, If Chipman didn't care about the viability of the Moose, as a whole entity, would MTS Centre ever been built to replace Winnipeg Arena?

Wouldn't Chipman if he ever got involved in an NHL franchise have to be forced to sell the Moose under current league by-laws it happened in Worcester & Bridgeport in the Roy Boe case did it not? You can not have control over two franchises nor be involved in one in either league.

Chipman has already demostrated that hockey in Winnipeg can work but this in fact is subjective and what would be the backlash in Winnipeg if Chipman cannot promise an NHL franchise a la the Jets announcement they were heading to Arizona and that PR Nightmare ie "Lame Duck".

Why take another professional team out of Canada that has proven to be a success, and does anyone want to go back to the days of an empty Winnipeg Arena instead of MTS Centre. Where has Chipman stated he wants an NHL team but why hasn't it happened----"If" is not a term he takes lightly---you haven't proven that Winnipeg deserves a franchise to return, maybe some are happy to have hockey in Winnipeg, some are not.

 

[grego]

If Winnipeg gets and NHL team they can move the Moose to another city.

This is a lot like Toronto leafs brought the Marlies to Toronto, and countless other AHL teams have been moved to another city.

It works very similar to how you move teams in the NHL. The AHL would not object to moving a team if the NHL came to the city, because the know they couldn't compete with the NHL. And there is absolutely no agreement between the AHL and NHL that says they can not put teams in cities of the other league.

 

[Hawker14]

Because you haven't said Wildcat everytime someone brings up Winnipeg as a viable NHL Market, no one here has stated what is the future of Chipman's current tenants, the Moose, If Chipman didn't care about the viability of the Moose, as a whole entity, would MTS Centre ever been built to replace Winnipeg Arena?

Wouldn't Chipman if he ever got involved in an NHL franchise have to be forced to sell the Moose under current league by-laws it happened in Worcester & Bridgeport in the Roy Boe case did it not? You can not have control over two franchises nor be involved in one in either league.

Chipman has already demostrated that hockey in Winnipeg can work but this in fact is subjective and what would be the backlash in Winnipeg if Chipman cannot promise an NHL franchise a la the Jets announcement they were heading to Arizona and that PR Nightmare ie "Lame Duck".

Why take another professional team out of Canada that has proven to be a success, and does anyone want to go back to the days of an empty Winnipeg Arena instead of MTS Centre. Where has Chipman stated he wants an NHL team but why hasn't it happened----"If" is not a term he takes lightly---you haven't proven that Winnipeg deserves a franchise to return, maybe some are happy to have hockey in Winnipeg, some are not.

why do you put so much value in a $ 3 million investment that chipman made (for the moose), in that it would somehow impede him bringing in a $ 100 million NHL franchise ? the arena was made for concerts (as winnipeg is a top 20 north american market in terms of gross revenues for non-hockey related events). the moose just get people in the building 40 nights a year which is better than it sitting empty, so you are making a mistake if you believe the moose are the main, or even the major, revenue producer for the mts centre.

nobody needs to say what will happen to the moose, because an ahl franchise is a non factor compared to an nhl franchise.

and there are absolutely no by-laws forbidding ownership of an nhl and ahl team. the leafs own the marlies, the oilers own the roadrunners.

you seem fixated on the moose, since being a "professional" team, somehow makes them valuable to the canadian hockey fan. the fact is major junior hockey is more popular than the AHL in canada, and no one will bemoan the loss of an ahl team because an nhl team comes to canada.

 

[weezman]

It really depends on where.

Expand to Winnipeg: Sure.
Expand to Quebec: Sure.
Expand to KC: If they think they can fill the area.

Although I agree with the earlier posts, right now or next seson is not the right time.

 

[kdb209]

Wouldn't Chipman if he ever got involved in an NHL franchise have to be forced to sell the Moose under current league by-laws it happened in Worcester & Bridgeport in the Roy Boe case did it not? You can not have control over two franchises nor be involved in one in either league.

???

The league allows ownership of both an NHL and AHL Franchise.

Comcast owns both the Flyers and the AHL Phantoms.

The Sharks own and operate their AHL affiliate (Worcester).

 

[diggity-dank]

There just isn't a market for expansion right now.

We should be talking relocation of some of the US teams, not expansion into more none-hockey markets.

 

[jamiebez]

Then the city of Winnipeg lied to the media, because I was part of the tour and they made it a point to show us the ceiling and process by which they would go through in order to add seats.

I'm not doubting you, but like I said, this is the first I'd heard of it from someone who can actually claim a source.

On the "Return of the Jets" board there has been a LOT of discussion about the arena size since it was built. I heard it from someone who spoke to Chipman himself, who claimed the roof was only engineered for a 15,000 seat arena. Of course, anything on a message board should be taken with a grain of salt, so I guess my personal stance is back to "I don't know"

Either way, I see Winnipeg as a viable NHL hockey market.

I agree. An extra 2000 seats would make it easier, though.

 

[GSK*]

moving teams-yes
expansion-no

Agree here.


We got enough AHL in the NHL right now.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

???

The league allows ownership of both an NHL and AHL Franchise.

Comcast owns both the Flyers and the AHL Phantoms.

The Sharks own and operate their AHL affiliate (Worcester).

kdb:

Worcester was not owned by San Jose until 2001---when the Sharks bought the Lexington franchise to Cleveland---at the same time SVSE ALSO OWNED the Gund Arena (now Quicken Loans Arena) & the NBA Cavaliers.

the Ice Cats franchise was defaulted to St. Louis several years ago that is now in Peoria.

as for Winnipeg, why would True North want to alienate fans again like the Jets did should they acquire an NHL Franchise in Winnipeg akin to when the Moose came to town, and what of those fans who may not want to see the Moose shunted aside again for a possibility that may or may not happen.

It seems to me that there is no expansion coming in either the NHL or AHL by league mandate because the mandate is right now the AHL would like to have at least a 1-1 affiliate to affiliate instead of dual affiliates or in Edmonton's case 5 AFFILIATES to develop future players.

When the Phantoms were created it was allowed under the AHL by-laws then because the Flyers wanted to and at the same time they were moving essentially into a new arena, moving to their current home from the Spectrum so Philadelphia isn't really a good example to use.

Toronto isn't either because of the above example because that franchise until last year had been relatively stable in a single market---St. Catherines, Newmarket, to St. John's, now Toronto, only because Lyle Abraham basically defaulted on the lease in Toronto that's why Edmonton had to buy that franchise and was transferred very late and then has been dormant ever since the lockout.

AHL Bylaws specifically stated, and was proven most in the SPHL, Roy Boe was consulted when Bridgeport was in the planning stages, my point is u cannot own multiple teams in a single league, and Boe had to divest himself of Worcester before joining Bridgeport on AHL matters.

 

[HansH]

Which has nothing to do with your original point, Chris. The NHL is not the same league as the AHL, so all your handwaving has nothing to do with owning an AHL team (the Moose) and owning an NHL team (the not-going-to-happen rebirth of the Jets).

And you lost ALL your credibility when you tried to play the "alienate fans" card, indicating that fans wouldn't support an NHL team because it would replace an AHL team -- there are many OTHER reasons Winnipeg doesn't work, but your little red herring is laughable. Then again, we shouldn't be surprised.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for a link to a CREDIBLE report of the expansion plans for the MTS. If the media were given a tour, someone must have reported it, right?

 

[Rumblick]

Oh, and I'm still waiting for a link to a CREDIBLE report of the expansion plans for the MTS. If the media were given a tour, someone must have reported it, right?

Don't know if this helps, but I'll take a shot.

Wildcat is a member of the media. I've met him, and he has no agenda in relation to whether or not Winnipeg gets an NHL franchise. I would say he's definitely not one to make something like this up just to push a discussion.

Of course, you may not think I'm credible, so . . . . . . . .

Either way, I don't think WC or I will lose any sleep over it.

 

[190Octane]

I am an evil genius... 4 divisions, the 2 extra teams are coming soon.

My guess is Kansas City and Las Vegas.