So Braden Holtby is a back up now?

Peen

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Demko wasn't (and still isn't) a goalie you can run into the ground - the Canucks needed a competent 1B to take pressure off him. Holtby was kind of in the range with other 1B options. Goalies were actually at a premium this offseason despite covid.

Obviously, there was hope that he could have a resurgence under Ian Clark and that didn't work.
Holtby hadn't been a good goalie for years.

There's washington fans telling you this here.

Your best upside was he performs at a 1b level equivalent to what his contract pays him. The downside was what we've gotten which is a continuation of bottom of the league goaltending.
 

Canuck Luck

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Neat, but none of those are goalies
1. You completely missed of the point the poster you’re quoting. He said had we signed a cheaper replacement we’d have had cap space for upgrading this roster.

If you’re asking what better goalies signed for cheaper here’s a list:
Hutchinson signed for 722k per for 2 years,
Smith signed for 2M for 1 year
Khudobin signed for 3.33M per for 3
Talbot signed for about 3.7M per for 3 years
elliot signed for 1.5M for 1 yr
Brossoit signed for 1.5M for 1 yr

that’s basically every nhl caliber goalie that signed this past offseason asides the top 2 in Lehner and markstrom.

2. you act like it’s 100% written in stone Seattle takes holtby. With how he’s currently playing, they don’t take him. This is coming from someone who also was confident holtby was they player they would take
 
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Regal

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Holtby hadn't been a good goalie for years.

There's washington fans telling you this here.

Your best upside was he performs at a 1b level equivalent to what his contract pays him. The downside was what we've gotten which is a continuation of bottom of the league goaltending.

His numbers were actually pretty good in 18-19. 8th in the league in goals saved above expected, and 12th in dFSV%. There was some hope he could bounce back, but obviously that didn't happen.
 

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1. You completely missed of the point the poster you’re quoting. He said had we signed a cheaper replacement we’d have had cap space for upgrading this roster.

If you’re asking what better goalies signed for cheaper here’s a list:
Hutchinson signed for 722k per for 2 years,
Smith signed for 2M for 1 year
Khudobin signed for 3.33M per for 3
Talbot signed for about 3.7M per for 3 years
elliot signed for 1.5M for 1 yr
Brossoit signed for 1.5M for 1 yr

that’s basically every nhl caliber goalie that signed this past offseason asides the top 2 in Lehner and markstrom.

2. you act like it’s 100% written in stone Seattle takes holtby. With how he’s currently playing, they don’t take him. This is coming from someone who also was confident holtby was they player they would take
1. I asked what better goalie options we could’ve signed for cheaper and he listed a bunch of players at other positions so no, I didn’t miss the point.
2. Realistically we didn’t have a chance at most of those goalies, Smith(lol). Khudobin and Talbot don’t belong as the cap hit isn’t that far off from Holtby
 

Canuck Luck

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1. I asked what better goalie options we could’ve signed for cheaper and he listed a bunch of players at other positions so no, I didn’t miss the point.
2. Realistically we didn’t have a chance at most of those goalies, Smith(lol). Khudobin and Talbot don’t belong as the cap hit isn’t that far off from Holtby
I listed the goalies and you lol at smith but he’s been a much better goalie compared to holtby this season as well as last season. Fact is khudobin and talbot still signed for cheaper so why couldn’t the Canucks sign holtby for cheaper?

we had a chance at pretty much any of those goalies. Edmonton didn’t even want smith back, Winnipeg fans were of the mind brossoit would leave for a team with more of an opportunity to offer, talbot went to a similar situational team in minnesota, khudobin went on the radio I believe it was and mentioned Vancouver as place he’d look at signing with

at this point you’re just posting without any facts to back up your opinions
 
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Three On Zero

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I listed the goalies and you lol at smith but he’s been a much better goalie compared to holtby this season. Fact is khudobin and talbot still signed for cheaper so why couldn’t the Canucks sign holtby for cheaper?

we had a chance at pretty much any of those goalies. Edmonton didn’t even want smith back, Winnipeg fans were of the mind brossoit would leave for a team with more of an opportunity to offer, talbot went to a similar situational team in minnesota, khudobin went on the radio I believe it was and mentioned Vancouver as place he’d look at signing with
Canadian teams will always pay a premium for players. Income tax is unfortunately a thing.

Neither Talbot nor Smith are upgrades. Khudobin was never going to leave Dallas, it’s was all hard ball
 

Canuck Luck

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Canadian teams will always pay a premium for players. Income tax is unfortunately a thing.

Neither Talbot nor Smith are upgrades. Khudobin was never going to leave Dallas, it’s was all hard ball
Is that why smith and talbot have better numbers than holtby over the last 2 years? How come Winnipeg didn’t have to pay a premium to sign brossoit? How come Calgary didn’t pay a premium to sign markstrom?

once again posting more baseless opinions without any facts to support them
 

Three On Zero

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Is that why smith and talbot have better numbers than holtby over the last 2 years? How come Winnipeg didn’t have to pay a premium to sign brossoit?

once again posting more baseless opinions without any facts to support them
Holtby - .911, .897
Smith - .898, .902
Talbot - .893/.881, .919(

tell me again how smith and Talbot have been better the last couple years ? (Outside the small sample size for Talbot

Brossoit hasn’t had a season over 21 NHL games played, and was already on a Canadian team
 
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GrkFlyersFan

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Holtby probably hasn't been an elite goalie since 2017. He won the Cup in 2018 following a bad regular season, began those playoffs on the bench because his backup Grubauer was in better form, did get in, and took the Caps through the playoffs to their long-awaited Cup. A couple more unremarkable years, and they decide to pay Backstrom instead of him, good decision in retrospect. So now here he is in Vancouver, named the starter before the season but now 1b at best. At best he's meant to be a bridge from Markstrom and Demko. I don't even think Seattle wants him to be their first starter.
 
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Canuck Luck

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Holtby - .911, .897
Smith - .898, .902
Talbot - .893/.881, .919(26 games)

tell me again how smith and Talbot have been better the last couple years ? (Outside the small sample size for Talbot)
As I said in the post before by last 2 years I mean this season and last. If we are talking about 2018-2019 seasons we may as well say burns is still a top 5 dman based off what he did then, or Domi could still develop into a 1C.

If you want to say they don’t compare since they aren’t goalies, okay so is dubynk still a starter and better than these goalies because he was still good in 2018 but heavily declined after that? Does Florida still think bobrovsky is better than most goalies? because they signed him after his 2018-2019 season. What about Matt Murray? He put up top goalie stats back in 2018 so is he still an above average goalie now?

but okay let’s throw holtby a bone and include 2018-2019 and make it 3 seasons including this current season. Notice how holtby is the one trending down the most? Notice how both smith and talbot are trending up?
 
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Three On Zero

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As I said in the post before by last 2 years I mean this season and last. If we are talking about 2018-2019 seasons we may as well say burns is still a top 5 dman based off what he did then, or Domi could still develop into a 1C.

If you want to say they don’t compare since they aren’t goalies, okay so is dubynk still a starter because he was still good in 2018 but heavily declined after that? Does Florida still think bobrovsky is worth every penny because they signed him after his 2018-2019 season. What about Matt Murray? He put up top goalie stats back in 2018 so is he still a top goalie now?

but okay let’s throw holtby a bone and include 2018-2019 and make it 3 seasons including this current season. Notice how holtby is the one trending down the most? Notice how both smith and talbot are trending up?
Sure count a very small sample size to make your point.... :laugh: the entire Vancouver team trended downwards this year and it isn’t because of Holtby. You’re really reaching
 

Chimpradamus

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Considering the Canucks didn't re-sign Markström and lost him for nothing @6m - and Toffoli @4,25m - it's absolutely mindboggling that they signed Holtby for 2 years @4,3m cap hit. They also lost Tanev and Stecher. So they saved 4 years and $1,7m going from top 5 goaltending to bottom 5 goaltending. I was dead sure Holtby was signed to a 1 year/ $1m contract, so my jaw dropped when I saw the crap contract the Canucks actually signed him for. Holtby isn't stealing any games, he's merely costing the team games instead by allowing ill-timed, weak goals in basically every game.

The silver lining for Vancouver is they can leave half their team unprotected and Seattle won't pick a single VAN player in the draft.
 
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Canuck Luck

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Sure count a very small sample size to make your point.... :laugh: the entire Vancouver team trended downwards this year and it isn’t because of Holtby. You’re really reaching
Okay so what about 2019 season for holtby? What happened there? How come Demko’s stats aren’t being dragged down too? Demko has better numbers in this small sample compared to last season. How come his numbers aren’t being affected?

why ignore questions about dubynk, Murray, bobrovsky whom all were still good goalies in 2018 like holtby but have significantly trended down since?
 
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Three On Zero

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Okay so what about 2019 season for holtby? What happened there? How come Demko isn’t being dragged down? Demko has better numbers in this small sample compared to last season. How come his numbers aren’t being affected?

why ignore questions about dubynk, Murray, bobrovsky whom all were still good goalies in 2018 like holtby but have significantly trended down since?
Did you not see the numbers Demko put up in his first 3 starts ? Luckily he’s been able to bounce back
And I’m ignoring your blatant attempt to derail the thread with nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic
 

Peen

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The guy who is ignoring a five year sample of a downward trend since 2016 is making fun of another poster for a short sample size.

Still hasn’t acknowledged any of the statistics posted for this season. Like, Demko has been on the opposite end of the spectrum and they play for the same team.

Lots of copes lmao
 
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Canuck Luck

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Did you not see the numbers Demko put up in his first 3 starts ? Luckily he’s been able to bounce back
And I’m ignoring your blatant attempt to derail the thread with nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic
Says this season is a small sample size and not having merit and dude proceeds to use a 3 game sample LOL. Hey spin it to win it right? Not to mention picked the one and only time I wasn’t 100% careful with my words when asking for facts to back up claims and ignored every other one.

You are right about one thing though you should ignore my blatant attempts in my derailing this thread with the nonesense of trying to make you support your claims which you refuse to do
 
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Confused Turnip

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Holtby hadn't been a good goalie for years.

There's washington fans telling you this here.

Your best upside was he performs at a 1b level equivalent to what his contract pays him. The downside was what we've gotten which is a continuation of bottom of the league goaltending.
Holtby started sliding during the 2018 championship year, that regular season he was inconsistent and towards the end of the season pretty bad, although he obviously had a great playoff run after that.

But that's only a couple seasons and with his pedigree and the NHL history he has it's not like you're betting on a flash in the pan to spark twice, nor is he that old, this is a long time great player who hit a really rough patch after his peak and should still be in his prime seasons. It's totally reasonable to consider a possible return to his prime form as upside.
 

Confused Turnip

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The guy who is ignoring a five year sample of a downward trend since 2016 is making fun of another poster for a short sample size.

Still hasn’t acknowledged any of the statistics posted for this season. Like, Demko has been on the opposite end of the spectrum and they play for the same team.

Lots of copes lmao
As a Caps fan who was watching him constantly at the time I'd say late 2017-early 2018 is when his play began to falter.
 
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Peen

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As a Caps fan who was watching him constantly at the time I'd say late 2017-early 2018 is when his play began to falter.
Agree - I should have clarified that I included 2016-17 because it shows the cliff he fell from when he was elite - fell to average - and now is shit
 
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Three On Zero

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As a Caps fan who was watching him constantly at the time I'd say late 2017-early 2018 is when his play began to falter.
17/18 he declined, 18/19 he bounced back a bit, 19/20 he jumped off the cliff.

16/17 he had a .925 which immediately discredits the poster who says he was declining that year(which was better than the year before)
 
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Peen

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Holtby started sliding during the 2018 championship year, that regular season he was inconsistent and towards the end of the season pretty bad, although he obviously had a great playoff run after that.

But that's only a couple seasons and with his pedigree and the NHL history he has it's not like you're betting on a flash in the pan to spark twice, nor is he that old, this is a long time great player who hit a really rough patch after his peak and should still be in his prime seasons. It's totally reasonable to consider a possible return to his prime form as upside.

I don’t agree with this however.

The thought process of “well maybe he could be really good again” is not the logic teams should be using to make decisions on multi year, big dollar contracts.

The realistic “upside” was a return to 1b level. The realistic “downside” was he continues to be bad.

They paid him thinking he’d return to upper 1b level which is what his contract pays him.

They should have factored in the downside and/or likeliest outcomes in the cost and they didn’t.
 

Peen

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17/18 he declined, 18/19 he bounced back a bit, 19/20 he jumped off the cliff.

16/17 he had a .925 which immediately discredits the poster who says he was declining that year(which was better than the year before)
Not sure how I’m discredited for increasing the sample size to show the heights he fell from.
 

Three On Zero

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Not sure how I’m discredited for increasing the sample size to show the heights he fell from.
You claim he started to decline in 2016 which is false, 2016 was a better year than 2015. The decline started in 2017/2018
 

Three On Zero

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I don’t agree with this however.

The thought process of “well maybe he could be really good again” is not the logic teams should be using to make decisions on multi year, big dollar contracts.

The realistic “upside” was a return to 1b level. The realistic “downside” was he continues to be bad.

They paid him thinking he’d return to upper 1b level which is what his contract pays him.

They should have factored in the downside and/or likeliest outcomes in the cost and they didn’t.
Upside was a 1b with Seattle taking him.
Downside is a #2 that can mentor Demko and is off the books when DiPietro is hopefully ready.

Benning has done a lot of stupid things, Holtby isn’t one of them
 
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