So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Martin Skoula]

Well, when your team starts missing Hyman the way the Leafs have this year, it’s pretty obvious we are missing a certain ingredient that these economy sized forwards aren’t bringing. So why collect more of them?

Because they cost under a million each? Where are you finding Hymans for that money? Best you're gonna get is guys like Shore.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think Marner can exist on the same team as Matthews, for some reason I believe that they really dislike each other. The contracts and subsequent fallout has made its way onto the ice.

Management has to trade one of them.

Hot take I know but just watching the body language between them.

They’re supposed to be best buds but I do get a certain feeling of resentment from the Marner camp. Like Marner feels like Matthews stole all the adoration and money originally earmarked for them.

 

[Stephen]

Because they cost under a million each? Where are you finding Hymans for that money? Best you're gonna get is guys like Shore.

And again, whose fault is that? Marner’s.

 

[Martin Skoula]

And again, whose fault is that? Marner’s.

Why do you want expensive 13th forwards?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Well, when your team starts missing Hyman the way the Leafs have this year, it’s pretty obvious we are missing a certain ingredient that these economy sized forwards aren’t bringing. So why collect more of them?

lol not having Hyman isn't the reason we're losing.

 

[Legendary]

The players egos are bigger than Babcocks. These contracts sent them into overdrive

 

[67leafs]

Coaching millennials ain’t easy.
Wake up, Eat, Uber to rink, skate, video games, nap, put on fancy suit, play hockey, interview, eat, video games, go nightly nite,....wash rinse repeat.

 

[stickty111]

It was probably unintentional

True, maybe that tweet came up and without noticing, he liked it. I have a hard time believing he would do that on purpose, considering his account being professional. Some of his activity is really just retweeting about his brother.

 

[Peiskos]

You can have all the talent in the world, but with no heart you’ll never win anything in the NHL.

Our so called best players have already proven they value $ more than a championship. You know who they are. It’s quite honestly a very unlikable bunch, doesn’t help either that they being coached by a coach from the stone ages.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Babcock And Dubas have to go.

Dubas doesn’t understand how to build a team. You can’t have all talent and skill with no grit, character and muscle. There has to be a balance. It’s apparent that he doesn’t understand this concept.

Dubas has been the GM for a little over 1 season . That's hardly enough time to "build" a team when it was already essentially built when he took over. I'm baffled that you don't seem to know that. The Leafs biggest concern was the defence and their lack of depth and quality, it was a major concern that everyone knew. Dubas in less than 1 year, went out and acquired Muzzin, Barrie and Ceci to help solidify the back end and did so without having to give up much in the process. You can't ignore the good because you're mad right now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You can have all the talent in the world, but with no heart you’ll never win anything in the NHL.

Our so called best players have already proven they value $ more than a championship. You know who they are.

There are very very few players who make the NHL without loving hockey and to compete, and they really stand out. I don't think any of our players are like that

 

[thewave]

I am so happy we have the Raptors. I go to Raps games on occasion but basically never watched them on TV because I love live experience. This Championship team is so inspiring and uplifting I was watching both last night and my eyes were probably more on the Raps. Isn't the Raps team culture supposed to be what these Leafs were supposed to have?

I am a Leafs fan but I can't support this management group. They need to purge EVERYTHING at MLSE regarding Hockey. They can keep the others on staff but all the advisors and all the hands need fired out of the collective cookie jar and build this team back with Focus. I don't care if they do it now, but firing Babcock could be the start, if that doesn't work I think you need to fire Dubas and then, you're on to Shanny. 3 years max, a new management team should be in place to negotiate with our future.

Add... I mean purge all the dead wood and all the 90 year olds and people nobody knows who is related to so and so. They all need to go. That's the problem, too many hands on the wheel here.

 

[moon111]

Have to ask, which would bring the Leafs more success right now:
-Pat Burns as coach
or
-Passionate team leaders like Gilmour and Clark.

Honestly think Muzzin should of been made an Assistant Caption for a dimension he's bringing.

 

[Walshy7]

I wouldn’t mind a top 10 pick if Shanahan doesn’t fire him.

yeah if we miss the playoffs we need to really miss the playoffs. 11-14 is the absolute worst case scenario a nightmare scenario really.

I’m still convinced we will make the playoffs though

 

[thewave]

yeah if we miss the playoffs we need to really miss the playoffs. 11-14 is the absolute worst case scenario a nightmare scenario really.

I’m still convinced we will make the playoffs though

If we don't, we have some serious issue. There is no way this team on paper should miss the PO. It suggests there is a massive disconnect on the team and it's completely dysfunctional

 

[Walshy7]

Theres no getting around the fact that office politics (and economics) kept Babs job safe with the transition to a new GM. But there's a shelf life on the safety net.

If the team is looking lackluster by adecbwr then Dubas likely has enough ammonto push for a change to Shanny and the board. Its when the Pens changed coaches back in 2015 prior to their cup run.

Babs is going to have to kick his stubborness and start adapting.

if the team still looks bad in adecbwr we are really screwed. That would mean a new month had been invented and I can’t see the need for that r at least another century probably closer to a thousand years

 

[Walshy7]

You are aware we don't have a first rounder thanks to Babcock's obsession, Patrick Marleau, right?

we do if it’s top 10

 

[Peiskos]

There are very very few players who make the NHL without loving hockey and to compete, and they really stand out. I don't think any of our players are like that

You’re forgetting that hockey in Canada today isn’t how it used to be, do you have any idea how many amazing potential hockey players in Canada never become players? Why? Because hockey today is a rich game.

Tons of average blue collar families and their children are more and more unable to participate, Marner, Matthews, Nylander all had well off families growing up. These aren’t blue collar kids, they were rich kids.

That’s the difference.

 

[thewave]

You’re forgetting that hockey in Canada today isn’t how it used to be, do you have any idea how many amazing potential hockey players in Canada never become players? Why? Because hockey today is a rich game.

Tons of average blue collar families and their children are more and more unable to participate, Marner, Matthews, Nylander all had well off families growing up. These aren’t blue collar kids, they were rich kids.

That’s the difference.

I never thought about that. Interesting point for sure.

 

[biotk]

Tons of average blue collar families and their children are more and more unable to participate, Marner, Matthews, Nylander all had well off families growing up. These aren’t blue collar kids, they were rich kids.

While it is certainly true that it is increasingly difficult for children from blue collar families to play hockey at a high level when they are growing up, do we have any evidence that either Marner or Matthews were rich kids? I know nothing about the income that either set of parents made when those two were young.

 

[Stephen]

Why do you want expensive 13th forwards?

There's no need to throw out a strawman either about cheap 13th forwards or justifying a top heavy cap structure.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

yeah if we miss the playoffs we need to really miss the playoffs. 11-14 is the absolute worst case scenario a nightmare scenario really.

I’m still convinced we will make the playoffs though

This is about the most un-tanky team I've seen in decades.

We aren't going to miss the playoffs, and if we do it won't be by much and it won't be by design.

This is not a tanking team or a tanking moment in any way.

 

[Lightsol]

Honestly, our fourth line has played way too close to our first this year. Wouldn't say our ice time is "even" or that he's rolling lines either.

So you seriously expect 40 goals out of the fourth line guys? Or 90 points?

Can we actually be serious and admit that our first and second line guys DO have talent, whether they are playing up to it at the moment or not?

 

[Bomber0104]

Coaching millennials ain’t easy.
Wake up, Eat, Uber to rink, skate, video games, nap, put on fancy suit, play hockey, interview, eat, video games, go nightly nite,....wash rinse repeat.

Video games and nighty night?

Clearly you haven't partied at Marbl when the Leafs/Marlies are there..

 

[Martin Skoula]

There's no need to throw out a strawman either about cheap 13th forwards or justifying a top heavy cap structure.

You are upset about Petan/Carcone/Ennis being too small, all of whom didn't even hold down permanent 4th line spots. You justified this by saying the team is missing a Hyman-like presence, as if a 4th liner playing every 3 games makes any difference at all.

Our 4th line is good, and no team is going to have a 2+ million dollar Hyman-level player sitting in the pressbox just in case.

The cap structure isn't good, but small 13th forwards are an insane thing to be this upset about. It doesn't matter whether it's Petan, Lindholm, or Martin sitting in the pressbox.

We need a Tkachuk in the top 6. We can't afford a Tkachuk in the top 6 whether Marner is making 11 mil or 9. Even if we had the money, we don't have the assets to bring one in without making a hole somewhere else.