So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

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7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
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The smoking gun for me is that the team has the same structural and systematic issues it's always had, despite year in year out turnover.

Except, funnily enough, his first year with the team, 2015-2016. That team was one of the best last place teams of the past decade. They played decent all-around hockey, just didn't have the horses.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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The smoking gun for me is that the team has the same structural and systematic issues it's always had, despite year in year out turnover.

Except, funnily enough, his first year with the team, 2015-2016. That team was one of the best last place teams of the past decade. They played decent all-around hockey, just didn't have the horses.
So is that Babcock or the talent?
 

CelticDruid

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Oct 23, 2013
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I don't think Marner can exist on the same team as Matthews, for some reason I believe that they really dislike each other. The contracts and subsequent fallout has made its way onto the ice.

Management has to trade one of them.

Hot take I know but just watching the body language between them.
 
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hockeywiz542

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31 Thoughts: Pressure mounting on the Toronto Maple Leafs - Sportsnet.ca
3. It is tense in Toronto. You could see the organization was curious how things would transpire without an injured John Tavares and his calming influence. They are 1-1-1, but it simply doesn’t look right. In last year’s playoff, during the three games in Toronto, Patrice Bergeron had 35 even-strength minutes and saw Tavares for 31 of them. Coach Mike Babcock gave us something fun last Saturday at home against the Bruins — a solid taste of the Mitch Marner/Auston Matthews combo, the second-most ice-time of Matthews’ career, and 11:24 against Bergeron at even-strength (in the re-match Tuesday in Boston, Bruins coach Bruce Cassidy showed he wasn’t afraid of keeping it that way).

I loved that Babcock made the challenge, but you can see he’s not ready to trust this full-time — especially when riddled with the kinds of mistakes that came Monday at home against Columbus. As of Wednesday, Matthews has taken just 17 defensive-zone draws (winning 29 per cent of them), one of which led directly to a Blue Jackets goal on Monday night. The improving Frederik Gauthier has taken 66, Nick Shore 62 — and both are over 60 per cent.

You can understand why Babcock is doing it this way, he’s got to win games in a much tighter division, and he believes prime time is earned, not given. That’s not wrong, but I wonder if these times call for something different. In Winnipeg, Patrik Laine clamoured for more responsibility, and the Jets made him a deal: “Fine, but we will take it away if you don’t compete hard enough to make it work.” Laine got the message, and the early season difference is noticeable. In Edmonton, the ice time for Leon Draisaitl and Connor McDavid is probably unsustainable, but the two have accepted a challenge and it is a big reason the start of their season feels so much more promising.

Toronto’s cap situation means their top players have to be the drivers, as both Babcock and Matthews indicated after the Boston loss. Is it time to fully unleash them and challenge them to make the necessary improvements without sheltering?

4. As the pressure mounts, there will be plenty of talk about Babcock’s future. One thing everyone should remember: he takes a lot of the heat. A lot of it. What I respect about him is that he recognizes it as part of the job. Where does it go if he’s gone?
 
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8816 others

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The smoking gun for me is that the team has the same structural and systematic issues it's always had, despite year in year out turnover.

Except, funnily enough, his first year with the team, 2015-2016. That team was one of the best last place teams of the past decade. They played decent all-around hockey, just didn't have the horses.
Fans of other teams like to claim they tanked for Matthews, but they rarely got blown out and lost most games by a goal or two. The effort was there.
 

stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Funny, it was the exact opposite thought last week.
Meh We have enough evidence to suggest he can't.
Babcock can still work with role players, but I don't think it's a good idea to reconstruct the roster just for him. You may as well get a coach that matches the roster.
 
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Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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Fans of other teams like to claim they tanked for Matthews, but they rarely got blown out and lost most games by a goal or two. The effort was there.


well they didn't (I meant hey did at the end. let's be clear), but i mean when Kadri couldn't score if you had a gun to his head, Bozak and JVR had broken bones, and the goaltending was complete poo (remember we sent Bernier down to the minors). i honestly think they were fine to finish wherever and the balls fall where they fall.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Keefe liked this tweet:laugh:


Did he really? Yikes! If I was Babcock, I'd be super pissed if I found about that. :laugh::laugh:

I'm surprised actually that Keefe liked this tweet, doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. It's one thing to think certain things but to go public with your thoughts is something else altogether.
 
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stickty111

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Jan 23, 2017
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Did he really? Yikes! If I was Babcock, I'd be super pissed if I found about that. :laugh::laugh:

I'm surprised actually that Keefe liked this tweet, doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. It's one thing to think certain things but to go public with your thoughts is something else altogether.
Yeah it surprised me as well. It doesn't seem like something he would do.
I guess he really wants the job lol.
 

egd27

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The last 2 full time coaches for the Leafs really bugged the hell outta me. Both are very stubborn and think that they know it all. That's the kinda of vibe I am getting from Babcock. "I know everything! How dare you question me?"

How do you possibly tolerate being here for 15+ years then?

I think that Babcock is probably out of touch with today’s young players. I don’t think our young players connect with him or vice versa.

I agree, it's almost impossible for them to get a "like" let alone a flame emoji on their posts from Babs. How does he possibly expect to get through to them?
 
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Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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The smoking gun for me is that the team has the same structural and systematic issues it's always had, despite year in year out turnover.

Except, funnily enough, his first year with the team, 2015-2016. That team was one of the best last place teams of the past decade. They played decent all-around hockey, just didn't have the horses.

That team sucked talent wise but they worked their asses off in all three zones and they gave a strong effort almost every night

If this team put that kind of effort in they would be world beaters
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Yeah it surprised me as well. It doesn't seem like something he would do.
I guess he really wants the job lol.

I'm sure he'd love to have the job. I'm also pretty sure liking this tweet doesn't help endear him to the organization. If I'm hiring, I'm docking him points for this tweet, not the sign of a team player. Babcock's still the coach and as long as he is, everyone in the organization should be standing behind him (at least publicly).
 

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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Did he really? Yikes! If I was Babcock, I'd be super pissed if I found about that. :laugh::laugh:

I'm surprised actually that Keefe liked this tweet, doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. It's one thing to think certain things but to go public with your thoughts is something else altogether.

Doesn't shock me lol.

Contrary to some of the nonsense you read around here, this is a superbly talented roster that many coaches around the world would LOVE to get a shot at working with.

Keefe knows there's a prominent possibility that he may just be the next one to get it, and he wants it real bad haha. For a little perspective, if the next guy who comes in gets this roster playing to their potential - they essentially upstage someone who's long been considered one of the best coaches in the world, so they're really gonna be coming out smelling like roses. Keefe knows this. I guarantee Keefe spends a lot of nights sitting in front of the TV fantasizing about what he could do with the Leafs.
 

HolyCrap

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Oct 2, 2015
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That's the timeline I'm thinking as well. Dubas didn't go All In with both Muzzin and Barrie only to watch Babcock **** everything up for yet another season. If this team is hovering just above or below .500 in late November, then Dubas will definitely fire Babcock.

I agree with this. Seems the most likely understandable scenario.
 
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