So... about the tank.

[MBH]

To me it's the kind of move you make when you win the lottery and add a Hughes/Kakko. No surprise both NJ and NYR made some significant moves this offseason. For us, the timing could be next offseason instead. If we are as bad as most think, we could have a good shot at Lafreniere or the other top guys. In a year, guys like Veleno, Zadina and Seider could also be ready to actually step in and be contributors, and Cholowski/Hronek/Rasmussen will also have more experience and development. That's when you could hit that "perfect storm" where the team takes a major leap. I think that's very unlikely this season, so adding Subban would just improve our chances of ending up in no-man's land, with no top 5 pick and no shot at playoffs.

Yeah, that's a crucial part of it. Getting that special youngster.
Still, what would having a Subban do for our youngsters looking for clean breakout passes, etc.
And I can't help but think of what a Subban brings to the Red Wings as a star African American in a predominantly African American city.

 

[MBH]

LOL.
I used to be the guy who rushed home and watched the whole game on DVR or whatever.
Have to admit, lots of times if I miss the game, I'm fine watching the NHL.com highlights.
Pretty sure I miss more than 10 games a year and I'm pretty damned diehard.

 

[MBH]

I have no respect for owners of a hockey franchise, that build a state sponsored arena and book it with concerts the first week of October, so the NHL team has to play its home opener a night after an away game, a week after the last preseason game.

I would have no respect for a GM that is more concerned with said business model, and is happy to build around a young face or two, and tbd and tba, rather than going out on a limb for his players and the fans.

Yzerman has a lot to prove to me at this point.

I think Yzerman has a lot to prove. But I doubt he has any control of the schedule.

 

[MBH]

That process really started as soon as we missed the playoffs which was important to the Ilitch family.

You work for your bosses and they loved the streak. I wish he had avoided a few of these contracts though for sure. By the way the other front office guy responsible for managing our cap and providing the figures is still here. Hopefully Yzerman doesn't listen as closely to Martin...

This seems to be along that "Mr I ordered Holland to pull out all the stops to keep the streak going" or "Mr I didn't let Holland rebuild because of the new arena" theory.

Two theories for which I've seen no evidence.
I always go back to Holland's painful locker-room clear-out day pressers.

Holland didn't rebuild because Holland doesn't like rebuilds because they take so long and because they're no guarantee they work.
He's said it.
His own words.

IMO, that's one reason why he's in Edmonton and not Seattle.

He's never suggested management pushed him in any direction.

 

[PullHard]

Why does that confuse you?

I read it as 75 Red Wings games specifically, but maybe you meant league wide.

 

[golffuul]

With the latest roster moves....the tank is on. And I have no problem with Yzerman's decision to play it safe and develop everyone just a bit more and have them win as a team in GR and then bring that to Detroit next year. Just going to be hard to watch knowing that the better players aren't on the big club.

 

[Winger98]

This seems to be along that "Mr I ordered Holland to pull out all the stops to keep the streak going" or "Mr I didn't let Holland rebuild because of the new arena" theory.

Two theories for which I've seen no evidence.
I always go back to Holland's painful locker-room clear-out day pressers.

Holland didn't rebuild because Holland doesn't like rebuilds because they take so long and because they're no guarantee they work.
He's said it.
His own words.

IMO, that's one reason why he's in Edmonton and not Seattle.

He's never suggested management pushed him in any direction.

And he's not really wrong. Even after Holland accepted how bad this team was and started making moves geared more towards rebuilding than trying to tread water, the Wings haven't exactly gotten a lot of breaks at the draft. If the Wings keep moving back two or three spots in every draft, they're going to have a hard time getting that one special youngster who routinely goes in the top2.

 

[vladdy16]

I think Yzerman has a lot to prove. But I doubt he has any control of the schedule.

I never implied that he did.

 

[MBH]

And he's not really wrong. Even after Holland accepted how bad this team was and started making moves geared more towards rebuilding than trying to tread water, the Wings haven't exactly gotten a lot of breaks at the draft. If the Wings keep moving back two or three spots in every draft, they're going to have a hard time getting that one special youngster who routinely goes in the top2.

But they have to be done.
You don't have to like your medicine. But you have to take it.
A rebuild was coming. One way or the other.

Go back to 2011 and reverse every picks trade and draft the highest-rated defenseman on the board.

in 2012 we get Motta, Mattheson Skjei, depending on the list.


But I'd real happy with Mattheson or Skjei on this team right now. These are the kinds of guys we need at the moment. The coming-into-their-own 25-year-olds who'll be veterans at 30 when a guy like Seider is 23.

I'm not even going to bother looking up all the seconds and thirds we traded. But there's a good chance there's a decent name or two in there.

 

[jkutswings]

Not watching as many games as when they were a top team, but that's mostly RL business. I'm happy with a lot of the development, the Yzerman hire, and the overall direction of the franchise. I'll take these players/prospects and a 30-52 season over the Abdelkaders of the world and a first round exit anytime.

With few exceptions, teams have tended to need at least two bona fide All Stars (surrounded by several other good players) to win a Cup. While there's no single way to accomplish that, I'll gladly take my chances chasing high draft picks until the core is stable enough to supplement via trade and free agency.

 

[Retire91]

I think the last time I really emotionally invested in the team before Yzerman took over was when they signed Alfredson. Maybe even before that. But around the Alfredson signing was when you knew the wings were going to continually sign vets and never going to rebuild until the rebuild happened organiacally because there was no further to fall.

IMO I will still stand on the point that the wings never intentionally started a rebuild, the rebuild just finally happened because Holland milked the roster until there was absolutely no way to make the playoffs no matter how many picks were traded and UFA's signed.

I hope we never become a team again that trades the future to elevate a declining team with no cup window just to make the playoffs.

 

[Gniwder]

I hope we never become a team again that trades the future to elevate a declining team with no cup window just to make the playoffs.

I believe Holland did it because Mr I wanted it. Considering what Mr I did for the team and the city, I'm OK with the wishes of a dying man. I have more of an issue with the generous veteran contracts that Holland gave.

But yeah, I hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[odin1981]

I was never a proponent of tanking especially not for the wings, but I would have liked to have seen some restraint from long term contracts to average players and bringing in average UFA's to extend an era of meaningless hockey. Holland's moves weren't designed to create a cup winner, they were designed just to try and get into the playoffs knowing full well that season after season the team's talent was degrading with nothing but long shots in the pipeline. This team could have been in great shape if they would have given up the streak promoted the kids and let the kids start from the bottom of the standings and work their way up all the while pocketing top 5 pick after top 5 pick. That is not tanking, that is just common sense asset management. What is the point of playoff appearances when your team has people like Neilson, Abby, Erickson like players all over the roster? I would have gladly given up the streak, gotten behind a team full of sink or swim rookies and watched the rebuild begin 6-7 years ago.

Yes bad management gets you to the bottom where you get great odds in the lottery, but so does common sense asset management and admitting when your cup window has closed and making moves accordingly. Things are looking bright now that we have a manager that understands that.

I get the feeling it was mandated from ownership to keep pushing for the playoff appearance record. But I agree it did more harm than good.

 

[Oddbob]

I believe Holland did it because Mr I wanted it. Considering what Mr I did for the team and the city, I'm OK with the wishes of a dying man. I have more of an issue with the generous veteran contracts that Holland gave.

But yeah, I hope it doesn't happen again.

It is one of the reasons I give Kenny a little more slack than some, because I truly believe that some of his moves were made because Mr. I wanted the streak to continue and adding veterans does help with that, even though it sucks for the rebuild. He still made his share of bad moves and signings, Dekeyser, Abdelkader and Nielsen though which were darn annoying.

 

[raymond23]

Based on the roster I’m probably not going to opening night. Would be my first time not doing so in 5 years. Just not worth the drive on a Sunday night from Grand Rapids.

That tells you all you need to know about my fandom at the moment.

 

[Gniwder]

Based on the roster I’m probably not going to opening night. Would be my first time not doing so in 5 years. Just not worth the drive on a Sunday night from Grand Rapids.

That tells you all you need to know about my fandom at the moment.

Why would you watch the WIngs when you live in GR? Most of us want to watch the Griffins this season.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Why would you watch the WIngs when you live in GR? Most of us want to watch the Griffins this season.

Because even a bad NHL team will play better hockey than a good AHL team.

e: same as how the 0-16 Detroit Lions or 0-16 Cleveland Browns would ****ing jackhammer the college national champion of those years. Or some rando high level high school boys basketball program would demolish whoever the wNBA champion is.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

On the topic of watchability, ESPN released a list of most to least watchable teams in the NHL.

Wings clocked in at #29. The lack of a blue line that could generate any offense was the biggest factor in why the Wings ranked so low. I thought their analysis was spot on.

Entire article for those that are interested.
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27689642/nhl-team-watchability-tiers-2019-20

 

[MBH]

On the topic of watchability, ESPN released a list of most to least watchable teams in the NHL.

Wings clocked in at #29. The lack of a blue line that could generate any offense was the biggest factor in why the Wings ranked so low. I thought their analysis was spot on.

Entire article for those that are interested.
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27689642/nhl-team-watchability-tiers-2019-20

Well, for me they're still #1.
But yeah.
AA and Larkin are the best reasons for me to watch a Red Wings game. Kind of a poor man's Datsyuk in that regard.
Neither guy makes every shift look dangerous... but they are both threats to do something special on any given shift.
Would have been nice to draft another guy like that in the last three years.

 

[Gniwder]

Because even a bad NHL team will play better hockey than a good AHL team.

e: same as how the 0-16 Detroit Lions or 0-16 Cleveland Browns would ****ing jackhammer the college national champion of those years. Or some rando high level high school boys basketball program would demolish whoever the wNBA champion is.

I'd rather watch my college team win than watch the 0-16 Lions (I actually went to a game that season). Likewise, I'd rather watch GR this year than the Wings because there's a higher likelihood of scoring and winning.

It is absolutely pointless to watch a hockey team that can't score, you might as well watch soccer.

 

[Oddbob]

Ottawa is up 1-0 in the tank race!