Snow/Wang Must Go!

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Lek

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Nov 25, 2006
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snow has built up a great farm system of high level prospects. right now the islanders d-core has a ton of depth. it's the coach that's the problem, something i've been saying. the islanders d has talent comparable to other lesser talented teams like phoenix but they perform worse because of poor coaching and bad matchups.

In so far as Snow's abilities....Yes, he has done a very good job with player personal acquisitions within the realm of possibilities.

No... he is failing in so far as assembling a proper coaching staff. Failing even more in not doing something about before the season slips away.

I find it amazing that most everyone sees that a coaching change is needed if even for the sake of change as nothing else seemingly has made a difference (not that there is a hell of a lotta something else having been done).
 

19NYSports91

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Sure, one might come out polished enough to be called elite by age 27 or so, but right now we only have 1.

I would like to point out that your notes about defensemen taking time is precisely one of my issues with this club. We still have a significant wait for the prospects to make in into the top 4, and deserve to be there. There is a lot of chatter in here about our blueline woes being solved by next season. I don't see it. If Donovan is the best or even in the same zipcode as the rest, we are in for a more normal wait period - 3 to 5 years.

That says to me rather loudly that they have to trade for a defenseman. And I don't see this as a new revelation unless the front office is populated by idiots and morons on par with Wang's hockey knowledge. So why no trade for a decent vet defenseman, locked up for 3 to 5 years by now? Hello elephant.

What if the Isles had the #4 pick instead of the #5 in the 2008 draft? They would have most likely took Alex Pietrangelo. A defenseman like Pietrangelo would make our defense MUCH MUCH better. Pietrangelo and Hamonic in the same draft would have been awesome. Two legit top 4 dman for a long time.

I really don't have an answer to the bold. Everyone sees all the moves they do and how Wang is so cheap. They traded for Visnovsky, but needed to do more than that especially with a bunch of young guys back there. Every offseason I wanted a top 4 dman, never really got one besides Visnovsky. I really want to believe that he will go after a top 4 dman and #1 goalie, but who knows. This is the time to do it, no question about it.
 
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stranger34

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Mar 6, 2007
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Here's another one...

I was absolutely clamoring for snow to go out and trade for one of the 3 Ottawa goalies last year. They ultimately took conacher for bishop. Niño and a pick wouldn't have got it done? Me thinks snow didn't kick the tires
 

Felix Unger

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Aug 2, 2005
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look, i don't agree with saying that Snow did the best that he could, given the circumstances, but i also disagree with stating the inverse. none of us (that i am aware of) are privy to such information with respect to Garth's options. i just don't get all the Yosemite Sam imitations.

Did you forget that there's a reason we never get any information? That Snow has enacted a media embargo as if he's Bill Belichick?

if i were to look back at the posts for the last few months, would i be able to quote you as stating that Snow could have done better?

It appeared that way to me, to be sure. Of course, I don't know. How could I? But I do know that he failed to improve the team. Given that, factors must be given to mitigate that understanding.

This is not a court of law. I do not need specific information to blame the GM for failing to improve the team when there were specific and obvious needs.
 

Brunomics

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Sep 2, 2006
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we got to the playoffs in his first year with one of the worst playoff rosters in recent memory and would have beaten the sabres if it wasn't for some questionable calls.

we would have beaten the penguins last year if they didn't have the refs in their back pocket.

snow has built up a great farm system of high level prospects. right now the islanders d-core has a ton of depth. it's the coach that's the problem, something i've been saying. the islanders d has talent comparable to other lesser talented teams like phoenix but they perform worse because of poor coaching and bad matchups.

They beat the Isles in 5. There were some bad calls but there is no way the Isles would have won that series.
 

Brunomics

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What if the Isles had the #4 pick instead of the #5 in the 2008 draft? They would have most likely took Alex Pietrangelo. A defenseman like Pietrangelo would make our defense MUCH MUCH better. Pietrangelo and Hamonic in the same draft would have been awesome. Two legit top 4 dman for a long time.

I really don't have an answer to the bold. Everyone sees all the moves they do and how Wang is so cheap. They traded for Visnovsky, but needed to do more than that especially with a bunch of young guys back there. Every offseason I wanted a top 4 dman, never really got one besides Visnovsky. I really want to believe that he will go after a top 4 dman and #1 goalie, but who knows. This is the time to do it, no question about it.

Didn't they obtain the Hamonic pick by moving back in the draft those two times?
 

blitzkriegs

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Here's another one...

I was absolutely clamoring for snow to go out and trade for one of the 3 Ottawa goalies last year. They ultimately took conacher for bishop. Niño and a pick wouldn't have got it done? Me thinks snow didn't kick the tires

Maybe OTT wanted a ROY candidate that was already producing at the NHL lineup they could put directly into their lineup. That was not Nino by any means.

So, while I understand it may seem like to fans as 'the best deal, how does OTT not do that????' - reality is that OTT identified what they wanted: a young forward already producing at the NHL level.

The package you describe does not fit what OTT ultimately received for Bishop - no matter whether you may think the Nino + is a better 'offer.'
 

Wedregast

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Mar 26, 2009
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This is a nonsense thread.

The GM position, whether it is Neil Smith, Garth Snow or anyone else, is mostly meaningless on the Islanders. The GM position is a glorified errand-boy. At the very best, Snow gets to run the draft. Wang pulls the strings for almost everything else. It's delusional to think Snow is the problem and not Wang, when we have no idea what Snow can do, wants to do, or would do if given the reins like an actual GM gets to do on 29 other teams not named the Islanders. :shakehead
 

A Pointed Stick

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Dec 23, 2010
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What if the Isles had the #4 pick instead of the #5 in the 2008 draft? They would have most likely took Alex Pietrangelo. A defenseman like Pietrangelo would make our defense MUCH MUCH better. Pietrangelo and Hamonic in the same draft would have been awesome. Two legit top 4 dman for a long time.

I really don't have an answer to the bold. Everyone sees all the moves they do and how Wang is so cheap. They traded for Visnovsky, but needed to do more than that especially with a bunch of young guys back there. Every offseason I wanted a top 4 dman, never really got one besides Visnovsky. I really want to believe that he will go after a top 4 dman and #1 goalie, but who knows. This is the time to do it, no question about it.

2008 draft - don't even get me started. We needed to come out of that with one of the top defensemen but wound up with Bailey, Ness, and Petrov. Fail.

Snow going after a top 4 defenseman has been a priority for years. All I hear from people on this board is "No one wants to give one up." For years. Ever. If that is the case then every year we should just draft defensemen because their **** can be traded for Stamkos and Crosby, based on the "No one will trade one ever" crowd. I think it is far more likely that this organization is ignorant to their value and Wang won't pony up the money a real top 4 costs. That is the only way to explain why they think they can compete for the playoffs with our current blueline.
 

blitzkriegs

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2008 draft - don't even get me started. We needed to come out of that with one of the top defensemen but wound up with Bailey, Ness, and Petrov. Fail.

Snow going after a top 4 defenseman has been a priority for years. All I hear from people on this board is "No one wants to give one up." For years. Ever. If that is the case then every year we should just draft defensemen because their **** can be traded for Stamkos and Crosby, based on the "No one will trade one ever" crowd. I think it is far more likely that this organization is ignorant to their value and Wang won't pony up the money a real top 4 costs. That is the only way to explain why they think they can compete for the playoffs with our current blueline.

It's the Angelos disease. Got burned by a big contract, has a cable deal, go into rebuild mode forever, attendance slides (no big deal), and eventually that rebuild will get you close. however, the economics of the game have passed the team by in a MAJOR spending division.
 

Wedregast

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2008 draft - don't even get me started. We needed to come out of that with one of the top defensemen but wound up with Bailey, Ness, and Petrov.

Didn't we get Hamonic in that draft as well? While he isn't Pietrangelo, he is one of the best defensemen taken in that draft.
 

19NYSports91

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2008 draft - don't even get me started. We needed to come out of that with one of the top defensemen but wound up with Bailey, Ness, and Petrov. Fail.

Snow going after a top 4 defenseman has been a priority for years. All I hear from people on this board is "No one wants to give one up." For years. Ever. If that is the case then every year we should just draft defensemen because their **** can be traded for Stamkos and Crosby, based on the "No one will trade one ever" crowd. I think it is far more likely that this organization is ignorant to their value and Wang won't pony up the money a real top 4 costs. That is the only way to explain why they think they can compete for the playoffs with our current blueline.

Bailey, Hamonic, Martin, Donovan, Ullstrom, Poulin, Spurgeon isn't what you call terrible.

Take a look at the draft again, what defenseman got picked after #4 that is clearly better than Hamonic besides Karlsson of course.

2- Doughty
3- Bogosian (I don't think he's clearly better than Hamonic)
4- Pietrangelo
15- Karlsson (many teams passed on him)

All of these players got picked before Hamonic:
Schenn, Myers, Teubert, Gardiner, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Cuma, Carlson, Voynov, Goloubef, Josi, Ness, Sauve, Wiercioch, J. Schultz, Robak, Gaunce, Burlon
 

Fantom

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Jan 5, 2006
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It actually is true. If we are picking a top ten pick this year, we can keep it and give Buffalo our #1 for next season instead.

Oh thats a nice little tidbit i did not know about.
SO if we pick in the top 10 we keep the first. that makes the trade a little bit better
 

OlTimeHockey

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Dec 5, 2003
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Ill bite.
I assume this is sarcasm. Or did that actually happen ?

Yes....but I assume he meant it sarcastically.....as in, Snow put a clause in that allows him to pick whatever lubricant is available in the prison shower....which makes him a visionary.
 

blinkman360

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Dec 30, 2005
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I think a lot of the heat Snow takes is unwarranted, TBH.

I think if we had an owner that wasn't so 'hands on', the NYI GM position would be pretty highly sought after. I mean, you're coming into an organization with a handful of quality young NHLers that includes a legit franchise player; a top-5 system that includes 3 blue-chip prospects; a team that isn't locked in to any crippling contracts; and more cap-space than pretty much any team in the league.

Love him or hate him, you have to admit that he's left his potential-successor in a pretty good situation... especially compared to when he came into his role as GM.
 

Hip Of Rick*

Snow Must Go!
Mar 17, 2007
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Anyone can make excuses for any GM in the NHL. As a fan I want to see a team that is competitive today and tomorrow. That has not been the case and the future is not nearly as bright as HF makes it out to be. In the 7 years Snow has been GM we have 3 PLAYOFF WINS. I will repeat 3 PLAYOFF WINS IN 7 YEARS. It takes 4 wins to win a series and in 7 years Snow has not even accomplished that pathetic feat.

People can make excuses all day for Garth, at the end of the day we suck and have sucked for the 7 years under Snows direction.

SNOW MUST GO!!
 

blitzkriegs

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Anyone can make excuses for any GM in the NHL. As a fan I want to see a team that is competitive today and tomorrow. That has not been the case and the future is not nearly as bright as HF makes it out to be. In the 7 years Snow has been GM we have 3 PLAYOFF WINS. I will repeat 3 PLAYOFF WINS IN 7 YEARS. It takes 4 wins to win a series and in 7 years Snow has not even accomplished that pathetic feat.

People can make excuses all day for Garth, at the end of the day we suck and have sucked for the 7 years under Snows direction.

SNOW MUST GO!!

You know CHI stunk for years. An original six team, with great jerseys, new arena, great fans, blah, blah, blah, blacked out it's own fans on TV, a budget inconsistent with its market ... all because of the owner.

Blame Snow all you want, but Wang controls. Wang ain't firing Snow.
 

Hip Of Rick*

Snow Must Go!
Mar 17, 2007
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You know CHI stunk for years. An original six team, with great jerseys, new arena, great fans, blah, blah, blah, blacked out it's own fans on TV, a budget inconsistent with its market ... all because of the owner.

Blame Snow all you want, but Wang controls. Wang ain't firing Snow.


Excuses for 7 years of losing. I have said countless times Wang is terrible and cheap. That should not stop us for placing blame on Snow. Snow is largely at fault for the mess we watch on a nightly basis.

Why is Snow given a free pass but Capuano is held accountable by this board... funny isn't it. Capuano is limited by a poor GM who failed to field a roster with NHL quality defense or goaltending yet Capuano gets destroyed nightly on here while Snow gets a free pass. Snow gets the Wang excuse so why not give Capuano the Snow excuse?

Capuano is under qualified and Snow hired him, yet we blame Capuano for failing in a situation he should not be in. Sounds alot like the players on the team like Amac, Hamonic, Bailey etc.. playing roles they are under qualified for. Yet Snow is blame free on here
 

A Pointed Stick

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Dec 23, 2010
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Bailey, Hamonic, Martin, Donovan, Ullstrom, Poulin, Spurgeon isn't what you call terrible.

Take a look at the draft again, what defenseman got picked after #4 that is clearly better than Hamonic besides Karlsson of course.

2- Doughty
3- Bogosian (I don't think he's clearly better than Hamonic)
4- Pietrangelo
15- Karlsson (many teams passed on him)

All of these players got picked before Hamonic:
Schenn, Myers, Teubert, Gardiner, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Cuma, Carlson, Voynov, Goloubef, Josi, Ness, Sauve, Wiercioch, J. Schultz, Robak, Gaunce, Burlon

Bailey/Ness/Petrov vs. any of them? I wouldn't give Hammer back for anything except Doughty, but I can pick a few names off the list I'd gladly give up the other three for today.
 

Le Grec

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Jun 28, 2011
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You know CHI stunk for years. An original six team, with great jerseys, new arena, great fans, blah, blah, blah, blacked out it's own fans on TV, a budget inconsistent with its market ... all because of the owner.

Blame Snow all you want, but Wang controls. Wang ain't firing Snow.

This.

The number one reason i defend Snow is the fact that he has somewhat stabilized this organization, with this owner.
Neil Smith would have been way worse. In fact, it might have been Mad Mike bad.

Snow might not have taken the best draft picks, but he certainly didn't take the worst. And the majority of them haven't been traded in lopsided deals.

Snow might not have been able to lure top FA, but he hasn't really lost any significant players, or over payed for an underachieving one. And the majority of what is considered the core, is signed to long term, affordable contracts.

Being better than Milbury isn't a great feat. But we all know what Wang is about. So i cut Snow some slack while Charles is still in charge.

Remember, Smith only accepted the job because he had no other offers. No one of value wants to work with Wang.
 
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Hip Of Rick*

Snow Must Go!
Mar 17, 2007
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This.

The number one reason i defend Snow is the fact that he has somewhat stabilized this organization, with this owner.
Neil Smith would have been way worse. In fact, it might have been Mad Mike bad.

Stabilized the organization, that is true. He has developed a culture of losing and has maintained it quite well.

So Smith would have automatically been bad why? Smith in one month brought in Sillinger, Witt, and Poti. They all played well and based on the sample size of 30 days Smith gave no reason to think he could possibly be worse than snow.

3 PLAYOFF WINS IN 7 YEARS. That is ****ing disgusting. Yet you blindly give Snow a free pass
 
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