Slava Voynov on your team

[Captain Bowie]

No. God No. No. No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[Captain Bowie]

If people were ready to give O'Reilly another chance then I'd give Voynov another chance

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I value the safety of human lives more than the siding of buildings. Just a little.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

What he did there's no justification for. However i'd be lying if i said im forever angry at him for what he did, it's really none of my business and i know nothing about what his wife did to make Slava snap like that. I've personally been part of a messy relationship and seen stuff happen to people close to me. Things are rarely simple and in the heat of the moment people can do things they will regret for the rest of their lives, especially if alcohol or drugs are involved.

Based on the fact that him and his wife are still together and apparently everything is good between them means they got it sorted out and Voynov learned his lesson. If his wife forgave him and there's been no other incidents reported, that's good enough for me.

Im not going to act like i'd enjoy winning the cup any less if Voynov helped my team to do that. Although from what i understand the Kings would still have to be compensated for acquiring his rights, his return would have to be approved by all 31 teams and then there's also the media.. so that does sound like a big hassle.

 

[Captain Bowie]

What he did there's no justification for. However i'd be lying if i said im forever angry at him for what he did, it's really none of my business and i know nothing about what his wife did to make Slava snap like that. I've personally been part of a messy relationship and seen stuff happen to people close to me. Things are rarely simple and in the heat of the moment people can do things they will regret for the rest of their lives, especially if alcohol or drugs are involved.

Based on the fact that him and his wife are still together and apparently everything is good between them means they got it sorted out and Voynov learned his lesson. If his wife forgave him and there's been no other incidents reported, that's good enough for me.

Im not going to act like i'd enjoy winning the cup any less if Voynov helped my team to do that. Although from what i understand the Kings would still have to be compensated for acquiring his rights, his return would have to be approved by all 31 teams and then there's also the media.. so that does sound like a big hassle.

Yikes.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Yikes.

Care to elaborate ?

 

[greasysnapper]

Unless you're getting him at an incredibly cheap deal like minimum contract, it's probably not worth the headache. In this PC climate, you'd not only see backlash on social media, and in the press, but you could potentially lose money from advertisers because of that backlash. Look what's happened to people like Samantha Bee over a tweet, she lost advertisers because people were hounding her sponsors. Roseanne lost her show. Imagine what could happen to an NHL team when SJW's figure out they signed someone who beat a woman into hospitalization.

 

[Territory]

I'd rather not have the headache.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I value the safety of human lives more than the siding of buildings. Just a little.

Agreed. I don't think getting behind the wheel of a truck and going for a joyride while intoxicated screams "I value other human lives" though.

 

[Leafidelity]

chill out. he only had 1 action, not multiple, and it happened in the heat of the moment. quite a ridiculous statement. also, how are you going to know if he has actually changed?

He only beat his girlfriend bloody one time, chill out guys



Keep this loser away from my team.

 

[cgf]

F*** no.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Care to elaborate ?

Your post is teetering on the edge victim blaming, and just because the wife is still with him doesn't necessarily mean everything is all good and sorted out, or that Voynov learned anything.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Your post is teetering on the edge victim blaming, and just because the wife is still with him doesn't necessarily mean everything is all good and sorted out, or that Voynov learned anything.

Where im coming from is i know a couple who had something similar happen to them. Long story short, if i told you what she did, and the timing of what was going on with his life at the time of finding out, it would make anyone give even a little bit of sympathy towards the guy. It doesn’t erase what he did, but he paid the price and today years later they are still together and happy as ever. This one incident doesn’t take away from them as human beings, both are great people.

So when thinking about this case i can’t help but to think it could be similar. Or maybe not, maybe Voynov is a piece of shit and his wife is still with him for money or for kids. Or perhaps his wife assaulted him first provoking violence but there was nothing Voynov could do to prove it. Literally anything is possible, we only know the end result.

Bottom line is, we don’t know the details and a lot of the time they can change the story a lot. It’s hard not to sound like victim blaming when bringing this stuff up but i choose to stay neutral when i don’t know exactly what happened, others want to be more black and white which is fine.

But for me, i won’t crucify anyone and say they shouldn’t play the sport they love because something that happened years ago that i don’t even know the full details of.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Where im coming from is i know a couple who had something similar happen to them. Long story short, if i told you what she did, and the timing of what was going on with his life at the time of finding out, it would make anyone give even a little bit of sympathy towards the guy. It doesn’t erase what he did, but he paid the price and today years later they are still together and happy as ever. This one incident doesn’t take away from them as human beings, both are great people.ay the sport they love because something that happened years ago that i don’t even know the full details of.

I could tell you stories about the woman doing nothing wrong and the man just being a violent drunk asshole as well, but neither have anything to do with this story. Bringing it up makes you look like you want to give Voynov the benefit of the doubt and assume "she had it coming" even if that was not your intention, and he certainly does not deserve any benefit of the doubt, considering he pleaded no contest and accepted his deportation.

Yes, one incident certainly can take away from someone as a human being. You could have two guys who are very nice, but if one guy beat the **** out of his wife one time, that takes away from his character.

So when thinking about this case i can’t help but to think it could be similar. Or maybe not, maybe Voynov is a piece of **** and his wife is still with him for money or for kids. Or perhaps his wife assaulted him first provoking violence but there was nothing Voynov could do to prove it. Literally anything is possible, we only know the end result.

And since we don't know exactly what happened, speculating does nothing to help the situation. I could be wrong, but I don't recall hearing any indication of anything that would suggest she provoked him, or anything else like that. So let's just stick with the facts as we know them. He put her the mother of his children in the hospital.

Bottom line is, we don’t know the details and a lot of the time they can change the story a lot. It’s hard not to sound like victim blaming when bringing this stuff up but i choose to stay neutral when i don’t know exactly what happened, others want to be more black and white which is fine.

Well at least you acknowledge that you sound like you are victim blaming in your attempt to stay neutral. I certainly see no reason to stay neutral on a case like this. One person was clearly in the wrong. Why should I consider his side as much as hers? He does not deserve that.

But for me, i won’t crucify anyone and say they shouldn’t play the sport they love because something that happened years ago that i don’t even know the full details of.

To be clear, the thesis of this thread is not about whether he should be able to play hockey again. He has been doing that for the last 3 years, hasn't missed a season. In his home country no less. The issue is whether the USA and Canada should allow him to live/work in their countries again, considering the crime he committed. Should he get special treatment over a normal guy who did the same thing and was sent back to his home country, but now wants to come back?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Wrong, but you're entitled to your wrong opinion in the name of simplification, and I'm glad you won't ever be my lawyer

Still love you though.

he's not wrong. there's no need to attack his credentials just so you can defend Voynov's character

 

[cgf]

Where im coming from is i know a couple who had something similar happen to them. Long story short, if i told you what she did, and the timing of what was going on with his life at the time of finding out, it would make anyone give even a little bit of sympathy towards the guy. It doesn’t erase what he did, but he paid the price and today years later they are still together and happy as ever. This one incident doesn’t take away from them as human beings, both are great people.

So when thinking about this case i can’t help but to think it could be similar. Or maybe not, maybe Voynov is a piece of **** and his wife is still with him for money or for kids. Or perhaps his wife assaulted him first provoking violence but there was nothing Voynov could do to prove it. Literally anything is possible, we only know the end result.

Bottom line is, we don’t know the details and a lot of the time they can change the story a lot. It’s hard not to sound like victim blaming when bringing this stuff up but i choose to stay neutral when i don’t know exactly what happened, others want to be more black and white which is fine.

But for me, i won’t crucify anyone and say they shouldn’t play the sport they love because something that happened years ago that i don’t even know the full details of.

Nah. We don't need to talk about your friend because I've done this, and she also stayed with me, refusing to press charges like her family kept yelling at her to, and I tried to make it up to her every day...we even stayed friends after breaking up a few years later & she's still really close with my mom.

But none of that changes how f***ed up it was or that I should never be given a public platform to be a role model for children because of that one night. Regardless of how shockingly out of character it was for me, the surrounding circumstances, how it still haunts me, or any other excuse you've got other than she was coming at your buddy with a knife, and knew how to use it.

It can be so much easier for a victim to just forgive someone for the horrible thing that happened to them...even when it should be unforgivable...especially when the love is intense & it's happened to the victim before. That's why we can't give the abuser the benefit of the doubt anymore unless we have a very good reason to do so in that specific case...which simply isn't what's going on with Voynov. Our species needs to break cultural norms that mess with all genders, and that means that 'erring on the side of caution until we know all the fact' or any other iteration of that notion, is not going to cut it.

Btw, I'm coming from a very super small government, pro-free speech, anti-interventionism (military, financial or domestic) place politically...so this isn't just some partisan spiel meant to rally "my side" against "the enemy". This is a moral issue, and there's just no way for us to address it but aggressively. We've erred on the side of the accused for way too long already.

Sorry for the rant but this thread popped up in my alerts and it's a topic I struggle to bite my tongue on.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

he's not wrong. there's no need to attack his credentials just so you can defend Voynov's character

There's no need for you to make shit up but here we are.

And yes, he's oversimplifying. Not entirely wrong, but factually inaccurate.

Me and TMM have a pretty good working relationship here, not sure why you're white-knighting other than to get on your soapbox and attack me for something that didn't occur.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

There's no need for you to make **** up but here we are.

And yes, he's oversimplifying. Not entirely wrong, but factually inaccurate.

Me and TMM have a pretty good working relationship here, not sure why you're white-knighting other than to get on your soapbox and attack me for something that didn't occur.

Yes I figured you saying you love him meant you were familiar or something. That isn't really the point though

 

[The Macho King]

Yes I figured you saying you love him meant you were familiar or something. That isn't really the point though

Couples fight and say things they don't mean. It doesn't mean we're breaking up sweetie.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

If his wife and kids want a better life and want to come back to this country, and it was an isolated incident (which he knows if he repeats he'll pretty much commit career suicide), is it really up to the general public to decide what is best for his family?

Now if the abuse was ongoing for years and it continues, that is a different story. I don't know how many consider the position of his wife and children when they want to throw the book at Voynov and bar him from ever earning a living again.

This isn't to absolve him of his heinous acts, but if it was a one time incident fueled by alcohol, I think a second chance may be warranted here. But he'll be walking a fine line from here on out.

Look at what Kobe Bryant did to someone he had no prior relationship with, and apparently bygones are bygones there. The physical and emotional abuse Bobby Hull put his ex-wife through was also reprehensible. And there's also this story that is forgotten about, 4 CAPITALS ACCUSED OF RAPE

It's long forgotten about because it's from 1990, it was investigated, determined no criminal activity occurred, and no charges were filed.

What exactly does that have to do with Voynov?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's long forgotten about because it's from 1990, it was investigated, determined no criminal activity occurred, and no charges were filed.

What exactly does that have to do with Voynov?

Players and supposed legends commit scummy actions. Look at Dino’s history, he plead guilty to exposing himself. If those sitting in high chairs suggest Voynov should never be given a second chance, then why not throw others who committed heinous acts in the same regard?

Patrick Roy was charged with domestic violence and his wife divorced him. Ray Bourque rear ended a vehicle after driving drunk. He’s fortunate nobody was killed, which has happened with other NHLers who drove drunk. I guess they should be banned from entering the country based on the severity of the crimes, unless we’re dealing with double standards.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Players and supposed legends commit scummy actions. Look at Dino’s history, he plead guilty to exposing himself. If those sitting in high chairs suggest Voynov should never be given a second chance, then why not throw others who committed heinous acts in the same regard?

Patrick Roy was charged with domestic violence and his wife divorced him. Ray Bourque rear ended a vehicle after driving drunk. He’s fortunate nobody was killed, which has happened with other NHLers who drove drunk. I guess they should be banned from entering the country based on the severity of the crimes, unless we’re dealing with double standards.

You are citing American and Canadian players. Voynov has the extra step of being granted ability to live and work in North America again. Those guys, despite what they did, never had their citizenship taken away, so it's not the same thing.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Players and supposed legends commit scummy actions. Look at Dino’s history, he plead guilty to exposing himself. If those sitting in high chairs suggest Voynov should never be given a second chance, then why not throw others who committed heinous acts in the same regard?

Patrick Roy was charged with domestic violence and his wife divorced him. Ray Bourque rear ended a vehicle after driving drunk. He’s fortunate nobody was killed, which has happened with other NHLers who drove drunk. I guess they should be banned from entering the country based on the severity of the crimes, unless we’re dealing with double standards.

That doesn't explain why you chose to bring up a nearly 20 year-old incident where it was determined no criminal activity took place and no charges were filed.