Confirmed Signing with Link: [SJS] Sharks sign Kevin Labanc (1 year, $1M)

JeremyTB

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Mar 16, 2007
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Y’all really chirping Burns’ and Couture’s contracts? Really? Burns is a ****ing steal and Couture is literally the best playoff performer of the past decade.

You wanna make fun of Evander Kane’s contract, sure. But Burns and Couture? Get out of here. :laugh:

Yeah right now both Couture and Burns are bargains. Couture is better than Duchene and he makes less than him and Duchene's contract is considered a bargain. I am not even sure Vlasic and Kane are overpayed right now considering what other forwards and Dmen are getting.
 
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TomasHertlsRooster

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Sure but you shouldnt pay for PP production

PP production has value. The Sharks would’ve been knocked out in the first round without Labanc’s game 7 PP production that was so good that it was literally unprecedented. You pay for that. You just shouldn’t pay as much for it as you would for even strength production. But generally, players get based on production regardless of where it comes from.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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PP production has value. The Sharks would’ve been knocked out in the first round without Labanc’s game 7 PP production that was so good that it was literally unprecedented. You pay for that. You just shouldn’t pay as much for it as you would for even strength production. But generally, players get based on production regardless of where it comes from.

Paying for 1 powerplay is even worse
 

PG Canuck

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Y’all really chirping Burns’ and Couture’s contracts? Really? Burns is a ****ing steal and Couture is literally the best playoff performer of the past decade.

You wanna make fun of Evander Kane’s contract, sure. But Burns and Couture? Get out of here. :laugh:

I had to go look at their contracts to see what the fuss was about - I burst out laughing. Couture is probbaly underpaid by around 1-1.5M-ish and Burns is underpaid by probably 3M.

Kane is overpaid by like 1M so not really a big deal.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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Paying for 1 powerplay is even worse

Over the past two regular seasons, there are 276 players who have played at least 200 minutes on the PP. Labanc’s PP scoring rate - 6.11 points per 60 minutes, or roughly one point every 5 power plays - ranks 28th. Even if you look at just his overall output and don’t adjust for ice time, he still ranks 71st with 37 PP points.

PP production like that over two season sample size gets you paid. The 4 minute outburst is just an example of the on-ice value of strong PP production and an example of the sauce which Labanc possesses.
 

Alwalys

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May 19, 2010
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I had to go look at their contracts to see what the fuss was about - I burst out laughing. Couture is probbaly underpaid by around 1-1.5M-ish and Burns is underpaid by probably 3M.

Kane is overpaid by like 1M so not really a big deal.
and kane being overpaid is iffy, as a player who has not yet reached his ceiling at 30 goals
cheaper than kevin hayes yo
 

Yackiberg8

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Mar 11, 2016
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Y’all really chirping Burns’ and Couture’s contracts? Really? Burns is a ****ing steal and Couture is literally the best playoff performer of the past decade.

You wanna make fun of Evander Kane’s contract, sure. But Burns and Couture? Get out of here. :laugh:
Coutures been great in the playoffs but there’s no case for him being a better playoff performer than Crosby.
 

Juxtaposer

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Coutures been great in the playoffs but there’s no case for him being a better playoff performer than Crosby.

In terms of raw points, maybe, but Couture’s scoring rate increase from regular season to playoffs is insane. Even superstars drop off. Couture doesn’t.
 

Pinkfloyd

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In terms of raw points, maybe, but Couture’s scoring rate increase from regular season to playoffs is insane. Even superstars drop off. Couture doesn’t.

That’s because Cooch to some extent saves himself for the playoffs. He doesn’t exert himself to the same extent during the season. He plays at like 80-85% during the season and kicks it up for the playoffs.
 

Juxtaposer

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That’s because Cooch to some extent saves himself for the playoffs. He doesn’t exert himself to the same extent during the season. He plays at like 80-85% during the season and kicks it up for the playoffs.

Definitely. He visibly coasts through the regular season. But I’m absolutely okay with that so long as he keeps crushing the playoffs.
 

Mr Fahrenheit

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Over the past two regular seasons, there are 276 players who have played at least 200 minutes on the PP. Labanc’s PP scoring rate - 6.11 points per 60 minutes, or roughly one point every 5 power plays - ranks 28th. Even if you look at just his overall output and don’t adjust for ice time, he still ranks 71st with 37 PP points.

PP production like that over two season sample size gets you paid. The 4 minute outburst is just an example of the on-ice value of strong PP production and an example of the sauce which Labanc possesses.

Build a top 6 of PP specialists and see how that works out
 

NJ DevLolz

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- Couture and Vlasic both took heavy discounts immediately after their ELCs. Couture at ~4.5% of the cap over two years and Vlasic at ~5.5% of the cap over 4 years.

- Karlsson took less than the average Norris Trophy winner has taken in the post-lockout era on their first contract after winning. When you adjust for cost relative to production, Karlsson’s contract is significantly cheaper than every other Norris Trophy winner.

- Burns technically did not have his Norris when he signed his contract, but he was coming off a 75 point season, 24 point/24 game playoff run, and was in the middle of his Norris campaign. If you include Burns in the list of Norris Trophy winners, his contract blows every other winner (including Karlsson) out of the water in terms of cost relative to production.

- The other players who have taken discounts are well documented. The most absurd of all was Jonathan Cheechoo taking $15M/5Y in the middle of a Rocket Richard campaign. (Era-adjusted, that’s around $6.25M today.)



Brent Burns is making less than Oliver-Ekman Larsson. You are being completely ridiculous if you think he did not do the team any favors.
So, Wilson does well with his RFAs (like virtually every GM), then proceeds to dish out egregious term when you look at age? The AAVs are mostly fine, but how the hell are you dishing out 8 year deals to guys who begin these contracts in their 30s?
 

Pinkfloyd

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So, Wilson does well with his RFAs (like virtually every GM), then proceeds to dish out egregious term when you look at age? The AAVs are mostly fine, but how the hell are you dishing out 8 year deals to guys who begin these contracts in their 30s?

Because in that time, the AAV is flexible enough to balance out the term's egregiousness. 7 or 8 mil in 2024 means less than it does now.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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May 14, 2012
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So, Wilson does well with his RFAs (like virtually every GM), then proceeds to dish out egregious term when you look at age? The AAVs are mostly fine, but how the hell are you dishing out 8 year deals to guys who begin these contracts in their 30s?

Because they had aged well, they were underpaid in the earlier years of their contracts, and the AAV was fair or below market value relative to what they brought at the time they signed their contracts. He's probably betting on at least one compliance buyout in the new CBA and also betting on Seattle taking at least one of those contracts.

You're also being awfully dishonest by saying that virtually every GM does well with their RFAs. Haven't you been watching the mess that has been occurring in Toronto? That all started when Kyle Dubas' very first RFA contract paid William Nylander a higher percentage of the cap than Doug Wilson has EVER signed an RFA immediately after their ELC.
 

NJ DevLolz

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Sep 30, 2017
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Because in that time, the AAV is flexible enough to balance out the term's egregiousness. 7 or 8 mil in 2024 means less than it does now.
That is assuming more Labanc's, Meier's, and Hertl's are on the way. The Sharks have done a great job on hitting on their few high-ish first rounders in Meier and Hertl. Those three aforementioned obviously totally outperformed their ELCs and produced top 6 numbers. Where is the next crop of top six talent coming from in the next 3-4 years? Tough to do a lot if you're selling your firsts every year.
 

NJ DevLolz

The Many Saints of Newark
Sep 30, 2017
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Because they had aged well, they were underpaid in the earlier years of their contracts, and the AAV was fair or below market value relative to what they brought at the time they signed their contracts. He's probably betting on at least one compliance buyout in the new CBA and also betting on Seattle taking at least one of those contracts.

You're also being awfully dishonest by saying that virtually every GM does well with their RFAs. Haven't you been watching the mess that has been occurring in Toronto? That all started when Kyle Dubas' very first RFA contract paid William Nylander a higher percentage of the cap than Doug Wilson has EVER signed an RFA immediately after their ELC.
It is impossible to compare RFA deals in the last 12 months to what DW and most other GMs did in the past. The landscape is drastically changing. RFAs are using the little leverage they have much more nowadays. Look at the Nylander, Matthews, Trouba, and Aho situations. RFAs seem to be willing to sacrifice the long-term security for the two massive paydays.
 

Pinkfloyd

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That is assuming more Labanc's, Meier's, and Hertl's are on the way. The Sharks have done a great job on hitting on their few high-ish first rounders in Meier and Hertl. Those three aforementioned obviously totally outperformed their ELCs and produced top 6 numbers. Where is the next crop of top six talent coming from in the next 3-4 years? Tough to do a lot if you're selling your firsts every year.

Two years isn't every year and given who they traded those picks for and the subsequent signings of them, even if I have my criticisms of Kane and Karlsson, I will take 7-9 years of either of them over a mid to late 1st round pick every single time. They have plenty of forwards that will be given a look and likely one of them will secure a top-nine spot. Ryan Merkley is at the very least a trade chip now that Burns and Karlsson are locked in long term. They like what they got in Ferraro and he will likely be in the lineup for the 2020-21 season. Chekhovich and Chmelevski are likely players that will be regulars soon to go with Gambrell. They may not be at the level of Hertl or Meier but they don't have to be. They can be Labanc level and be perfectly valuable for the team. They'll be more than alright.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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May 14, 2012
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It is impossible to compare RFA deals in the last 12 months to what DW and most other GMs did in the past. The landscape is drastically changing. RFAs are using the little leverage they have much more nowadays. Look at the Nylander, Matthews, Trouba, and Aho situations. RFAs seem to be willing to sacrifice the long-term security for the two massive paydays.

The landscape is drastically changing, and yet...somehow DW got Timo Meier and Kevin Labanc signed for $7M combined. The two of them averaged the same number of points as Nylander did in his contract year, and signed for less than $0.04M more than Nylander AFTER Nylander signed his contract. Do you not see how you’ve proven my point with this post?
 
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SjMilhouse

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That is assuming more Labanc's, Meier's, and Hertl's are on the way. The Sharks have done a great job on hitting on their few high-ish first rounders in Meier and Hertl. Those three aforementioned obviously totally outperformed their ELCs and produced top 6 numbers. Where is the next crop of top six talent coming from in the next 3-4 years? Tough to do a lot if you're selling your firsts every year.
We had this conversation 5-7 years ago, then 3-4 years ago, and now today. Im sure in 2-3 years we will hear the same thing again "how oh how will the Sharks find a way to win with the age of their core? Hertl is almost 30! They are too old with no talent coming!"
 

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