Confirmed Trade: [SJS/PHI] Sharks trade RD Justin Braun to the Flyers for 2019 2nd and 2020 3rd

[weastern bias]

You wish Fletcher had the same common sense to...suddenly make Karlsson and Burns appear on his team?

Wilson had the common sense to do so

Burns and Karlsson were traded for

Devin Setoguchi
Charlie Coyle
Zach Phillips
Chris Tierney
Dylan DeMelo
Rudolphs Balcers
3 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

That's a no brainer for sure

Why couldn't Flecher do that (outside of being a completely different team in a different situation with different owners and not having any of those particular players but pffffft whatever)

 

[TheKingPin]

Yes, there are examples of KHL players failing miserably. That's why it's probably not good to say something like "players like Gusev automatically score 80 points and win you playoff rounds."

However, nobody said that. What you said was this:



Seeing as Gusev's KHL production is superior to Panarin's when he came over, and guys like Panarin unquestionably win you playoff rounds, there's certainly a chance that a guy like Gusev could be the difference between winning and losing a playoff round. There is significantly more evidence, such as Gusev's estimated scoring rate through tools like NHLe, to suggest that guys like Gusev do win you playoff rounds.

At this stage of their careers, given every single factor we know - age, traditional aging curves, style of play, NHL scoring rates, NHL estimated scoring rates, style of play, estimated WAR, etc. - I think it's probably safer to suggest that Gusev is much more likely to win playoff rounds for his team than Braun is.

If you look at which teams advance and which teams do not, it’s the one with the deeper D. Toronto can’t win a round. Cbus had a Gusev ceiling level hope in Panarin and won one round which was fluky anyway. Look at St. Louis D. If Braun is tagged for the correct slot as he is in philly then you have a better shot at winning a series than with a likely middle 6 winger. For the flyers, I think it prob gives them the best shot to win a series given their roster.

Wilson had the common sense to do so

Burns and Karlsson were traded for

Devin Setoguchi
Charlie Coyle
Zach Phillips
Chris Tierney
Dylan DeMelo
Rudolphs Balcers
3 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

That's a no brainer for sure

Why couldn't Flecher do that (outside of being a completely different team in a different situation with different owners and not having any of those particular players but pffffft whatever)

Wow that’s just crazy.

 

[Limekiller]

Wow that’s just crazy.

Don't forget, Doug Wilson also turned Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, and Wayne Primeau into Joe Thornton, on top of the aforementioned trades to acquire Burns and Karlsson. If there's any other GM in the NHL that's better at taking a few nickels and trading them for a $20 bill, I'm not aware of them. For this trade, though, I really think that it's a win-win for both teams. San Jose got exactly what it needed and wanted out of the deal, as did Philly. Gusev may end up being great, but he may very well flame out and turn into nothing, too. Right now he's just a bunch of magic beans. Besides, Philly needed a middle-pairing RD way more than they needed a top/middle-6 winger, so acquiring Gusev instead of Braun really makes no sense for them.

PS: if you want evidence of the East Coast bias in Hockey Media, just look at how little attention Doug Wilson gets for the GM of the Year award every year.

 

[TheKingPin]

Don't forget, Doug Wilson also turned Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, and Wayne Primeau into Joe Thornton, on top of the aforementioned trades to acquire Burns and Karlsson. If there's any other GM in the NHL that's better at taking a few nickels and trading them for a $20 bill, I'm not aware of them. For this trade, though, I really think that it's a win-win for both teams. San Jose got exactly what it needed and wanted out of the deal, as did Philly. Gusev may end up being great, but he may very well flame out and turn into nothing, too. Right now he's just a bunch of magic beans. Besides, Philly needed a middle-pairing RD way more than they needed a top/middle-6 winger, so acquiring Gusev instead of Braun really makes no sense for them.

PS: if you want evidence of the East Coast bias in Hockey Media, just look at how little attention Doug Wilson gets for the GM of the Year award every year.

That plus things like convincing players to sign near league min to “bet on themselves”. I mean the player is an idiot as he easily could have gotten 3 mill for one year and it be a good all around deal. I’m surprised he lost out on JT. Otherwise, he wins every discussion it seems.

I think it’s a good trade. It’s clear the flyers want to give guys like Myers and morin more ice time, but not at the cost of losing. A one year deal on a good player like Braun makes sense. The cost was pretty high, but it was early in the offseason and they had to make moves to set the roster as this is a massive year for the flyer franchise. If it would have been 3rd + 3rd you see a lot less complaining. Plus he made up for it in a big way getting Yam Cork and Brink in the draft.

 

[Broad Street Buddies]

That plus things like convincing players to sign near league min to “bet on themselves”. I mean the player is an idiot as he easily could have gotten 3 mill for one year and it be a good all around deal. I’m surprised he lost out on JT. Otherwise, he wins every discussion it seems.

I think it’s a good trade. It’s clear the flyers want to give guys like Myers and morin more ice time, but not at the cost of losing. A one year deal on a good player like Braun makes sense. The cost was pretty high, but it was early in the offseason and they had to make moves to set the roster as this is a massive year for the flyer franchise. If it would have been 3rd + 3rd you see a lot less complaining. Plus he made up for it in a big way getting Yam Cork and Brink in the draft.

We are quite lucky to have Yam Cork along with Foel Jarabee & Forgan Mrost.

 

[themelkman]

That plus things like convincing players to sign near league min to “bet on themselves”. I mean the player is an idiot as he easily could have gotten 3 mill for one year and it be a good all around deal. I’m surprised he lost out on JT. Otherwise, he wins every discussion it seems.

That was pretty much all on JT being super indecisive and making the sharks believe they were the serious option.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

As long as you dont expect offense you guys should be happy with Braun

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

As long as you dont expect offense you guys should be happy with Braun

He was never asked to score... playing shutdown with Vlasic limits your point totals..
Given the right condition, braun could post 25-30 pts

 

[hmc1987]

Don't forget, Doug Wilson also turned Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, and Wayne Primeau into Joe Thornton, on top of the aforementioned trades to acquire Burns and Karlsson. If there's any other GM in the NHL that's better at taking a few nickels and trading them for a $20 bill, I'm not aware of them. For this trade, though, I really think that it's a win-win for both teams. San Jose got exactly what it needed and wanted out of the deal, as did Philly. Gusev may end up being great, but he may very well flame out and turn into nothing, too. Right now he's just a bunch of magic beans. Besides, Philly needed a middle-pairing RD way more than they needed a top/middle-6 winger, so acquiring Gusev instead of Braun really makes no sense for them.

PS: if you want evidence of the East Coast bias in Hockey Media, just look at how little attention Doug Wilson gets for the GM of the Year award every year.

Its never a good look, in my opinion, when a KHL player is pricing themselves out. VGK prepared to offer $3 million for a tryout contract 1 year...not enough.

No reason for most clubs to take a chance in the cap era

 

[Sharksfan83]

Braun is a great pickup. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Braun may have his faults but he's indestructible. You'll see him take hits that would destroy normal players and get up like nothing happened. Real blue collar team guy. You guys will appreciate his toughness.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Wilson had the common sense to do so

Burns and Karlsson were traded for

Devin Setoguchi
Charlie Coyle
Zach Phillips
Chris Tierney
Dylan DeMelo
Rudolphs Balcers
3 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

That's a no brainer for sure

Why couldn't Flecher do that (outside of being a completely different team in a different situation with different owners and not having any of those particular players but pffffft whatever)

That doesn't seem right.

Burns came with a 2012 2nd for Setoguchi, Coyle, and the 28th overall in 2011.

Karlsson came with Perron for Norris, Balcers, Tierney, DeMelo, a first, and the triggered 2nd.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Wilson had the common sense to do so

Burns and Karlsson were traded for

Devin Setoguchi
Charlie Coyle
Zach Phillips
Chris Tierney
Dylan DeMelo
Rudolphs Balcers
3 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

That's a no brainer for sure

Why couldn't Flecher do that (outside of being a completely different team in a different situation with different owners and not having any of those particular players but pffffft whatever)

Doug Wilson was that kid in the 90's that would turn 2-3 less valuable cards into a charizard.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Braun is a great pickup. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

The Flyers have just had a bad run of "veteran blue collar good lockeroom presence tough stay at home dmen" in recent years. Guys like Schenn, MacDonald, Manning, Hagg, etc who played way too many minutes and struggled while our promising young D sat on the sidelines. We were told it was because these guys were "steady" or "heavy" or brought a "veteran calmness". Our broadcasters literally praised these guys on a regular basis when it was clear they were terrible. Funny thing is...none of those guys are even projected to be in an NHL top 6 next year.

Braun just sounds like that kind of player. The Flyers have already started the PR campaign for him which is never a good sign.

Hopefully the new coaches use him.as a 6 or a 7...but all signs point to him being in our top 4 which worries me.

 

[weastern bias]

That doesn't seem right.

Burns came with a 2012 2nd for Setoguchi, Coyle, and the 28th overall in 2011.

I did make a mistake, one of those firsts turned into Phillips, so his name shouldn't be on the list

Karlsson came with Perron for Norris, Balcers, Tierney, DeMelo, a first, and the triggered 2nd.

Didn't us resigning him kick in the second 1st round pick? Or did we need to make the 2019 finals as well?

Either way, point stands, we traded a couple 1sts, a 2nd, one impact player who was had already played his last good season, one prospect who turned into a top-6 player, a prospect we still don't know if he'll be any good, and some depth pieces for 2 Norris trophy level D men

 

[weastern bias]

Doug Wilson was that kid in the 90's that would turn 2-3 less valuable cards into a charizard.

With the Karlsson trade he was more like the scammer kid who drew on a Jigglypuff with jellypens and traded his "ultra rare" card for said Charizard

 

[Rich Nixon]

The Flyers have just had a bad run of "veteran blue collar good lockeroom presence tough stay at home dmen" in recent years. Guys like Schenn, MacDonald, Manning, Hagg, etc who played way too many minutes and struggled while our promising young D sat on the sidelines. We were told it was because these guys were "steady" or "heavy" or brought a "veteran calmness". Our broadcasters literally praised these guys on a regular basis when it was clear they were terrible. Funny thing is...none of those guys are even projected to be in an NHL top 6 next year.

Braun just sounds like that kind of player.

But he isn't "that kind of player" because he doesn't suck. Making that comparison is insulting to Braun, and is also kind of flashing a complete lack of knowledge about players on teams other than your own. He is a significantly better player than you're expecting.

 

[TheKingPin]

The Flyers have just had a bad run of "veteran blue collar good lockeroom presence tough stay at home dmen" in recent years. Guys like Schenn, MacDonald, Manning, Hagg, etc who played way too many minutes and struggled while our promising young D sat on the sidelines. We were told it was because these guys were "steady" or "heavy" or brought a "veteran calmness". Our broadcasters literally praised these guys on a regular basis when it was clear they were terrible. Funny thing is...none of those guys are even projected to be in an NHL top 6 next year.

Braun just sounds like that kind of player. The Flyers have already started the PR campaign for him which is never a good sign.

Hopefully the new coaches use him.as a 6 or a 7...but all signs point to him being in our top 4 which worries me.

He’s a D first guy, but he’s not like those players. He can skate and is an NHL dman. Seems to be a very good add at #4 slot. Also good to have a guy that can kill penalties.

 

[TheKingPin]

Wilson also appears to draft very well. The team has been competitive for a LONG time with not many high picks, but they have a lot young guys. Losing Pavs is a big deal, but not as big as it should be given their talent.

 

[themelkman]

Wilson also appears to draft very well. The team has been competitive for a LONG time with not many high picks, but they have a lot young guys. Losing Pavs is a big deal, but not as big as it should be given their talent.

I wouldn't call it Wilson on the drafting. Our former head scout Tim Burke (Now assistant GM) is crazy good at finding gems, and the hope is that hes passed on some of that knowledge to DW jr for the future. Our frequent non NHL FA signings also help alot, even looking at the sharks right now we have 4 guys who were signed directly from europe on the team next year, as well as 6 that could challenge for a spot.

 

[Adam Warlock]

But he isn't "that kind of player" because he doesn't suck. Making that comparison is insulting to Braun, and is also kind of flashing a complete lack of knowledge about players on teams other than your own. He is a significantly better player than you're expecting.

My point was the Flyers are selling him like they sold those other players...which is why many fans have low expectations for him.

Like I said...if Braun is used correctly, he will be a positive addition to the team. That said...he is not nearly the impact player as someone like Ghost so the ice time should reflect that.

 

[Rich Nixon]

My point was the Flyers are selling him like they sold those other players...which is why many fans have low expectations for him.

Like I said...if Braun is used correctly, he will be a positive addition to the team. That said...he is not nearly the impact player as someone like Ghost so the ice time should reflect that.

I don’t think you should read anything at all into NHL teams’ social media.

 

[mercury]

The Flyers have just had a bad run of "veteran blue collar good lockeroom presence tough stay at home dmen" in recent years. Guys like Schenn, MacDonald, Manning, Hagg, etc who played way too many minutes and struggled while our promising young D sat on the sidelines. We were told it was because these guys were "steady" or "heavy" or brought a "veteran calmness". Our broadcasters literally praised these guys on a regular basis when it was clear they were terrible. Funny thing is...none of those guys are even projected to be in an NHL top 6 next year.

Braun just sounds like that kind of player. The Flyers have already started the PR campaign for him which is never a good sign.

Hopefully the new coaches use him.as a 6 or a 7...but all signs point to him being in our top 4 which worries me.

Hagg and Manning were hardly veterans. And "he sounds like that kind of guy" is the weakest of sauces.

 

[Revelation]

Wilson had the common sense to do so

Burns and Karlsson were traded for

Devin Setoguchi
Charlie Coyle
Zach Phillips
Chris Tierney
Dylan DeMelo
Rudolphs Balcers
3 1st round picks
1 2nd round pick

That's a no brainer for sure

Why couldn't Flecher do that (outside of being a completely different team in a different situation with different owners and not having any of those particular players but pffffft whatever)

That's a ton of assets many of which busted later on but had high value at the time for two defensemen with a year on their contract that had question marks around them as well

 

[Erep]

That's a ton of assets many of which busted later on but had high value at the time for two defensemen with a year on their contract that had question marks around them as well

There are so many assets or even NHL quality players the Sharks have had over the years that they have traded or let walk and have immediately become busts.

At some point I'm concerned it will catch up with DW as other GMs realise that if DW is trying to trade me a guy he probably knows something I don't...