size

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by neg marron, Feb 5, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. neg marron

    neg marron Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    radio dj
    Location:
    gatineau quebec
    Home Page:
    with the emergence of players like simon gamache,pm bouchard , steve sullivan, martin st louis, trevor daley,daniel briere,and soon sidney crosby... does size still matter in the nhl today
     
    Last edited by moderator zoidberg: Feb 5, 2004
  2. X-SHARKIE

    X-SHARKIE Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Janesville Wisconsin
    Home Page:
    I have to agree. I had the pleasure of sitting front row at a Sharks vs Blackhawks game this year and I realized that yes size is nice, but skill is the deciding factor. I still believe that small players can score, but you still need some size in your lineup.
     
  3. Gwyddbwyll

    Gwyddbwyll Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,759
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    171
    You could add Marc Savard and Mike Comrie to that list.

    Come playoff time I'd much rather have a Shane Doan on my team though.
     
  4. neg marron

    neg marron Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    radio dj
    Location:
    gatineau quebec
    Home Page:
    mind set

    what if crosby lives up to the hype gretzky loves this kid afterall records are meant to be broken remember before gretz most people thought howe's records would last forever...it would be nice to see if gretz records are broken by crosby what the mind set will be then btw gretz was small by today's standards 6ft 1 180 soaking wet :D
     
  5. Gwyddbwyll

    Gwyddbwyll Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,759
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    171
    Ohh Crosby good point :)

    Well he's special but I dont think he's really small is he? He's 5'10 or something? Could get bigger.
     
  6. PhoPhan

    PhoPhan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,724
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Size means little. However, size helps. A lot of guys who are big wouldn't be in the NHL if they were smaller. They are different. You don't have to be big, but size often helps.
     
  7. Spiffy

    Spiffy Guest

    Talking about size... Jarmo Jokila :bow:
     
  8. Cariboux

    Cariboux Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Rimouski
    Home Page:
    A good exemple is Mike Ribeiro from the Habs. With his 6' and 175 pounds, everyone said that he hasn't the size to success and he's having a great season. He's small and not a fast skater, so the most important thing to develop for these players IMO is to have a good puck protection and a good positionning
     
  9. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Calgary
    Home Page:
    Size definitely has an impact. Those guys you listed are doing well in the NHL because they have elite skill levels which make up for their lack of size. If you are a small player you have to better in many areas or the bigger player will be better. It is a disadvantage to be smaller and weaker. A disadvantage that not every skilled small player can overcome. Generally the small guys have to be fast, extremely strong for their size and more determined than some in order to make it in the NHL. You know you're going up against 6'2+ 200+ lb defensemen every night and you have to have a way to beat them whether it be pure skill or speed.

    Size will always matter in a physical game like the NHL.
     
  10. Lard_Lad

    Lard_Lad Registered User

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Messages:
    6,678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Kelowna
    Home Page:
    I also think we can do without the 'aryan master race' comments

    Agreed with what FDW said. The little guys I've seen make it out of the WHL to the NHL generally have had amazing skills to compensate for their size - Ronning and Fleury come to mind. Nigel Dawes looks like he might be the next one, but behind him are guys like Tyler Mosienko who put up good numbers but don't really have the overwhelming skillset that eliminates the need for them to muscle past a big defenceman.
     
    Last edited by moderator zoidberg: Feb 5, 2004
  11. Vagrant

    Vagrant The Czech Condor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,260
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Home Page:
    Size is the single most overrated aspect of prospect watching. It's the same principal that saw Zack Parise go untouched down the draft boards last year. When it all comes down to it, the NHL today is about playing mistake free hockey. With all the trapping, clutching, and grabbing, any physical advantages can be negated by the more cerebral players in the game. Under that ideology, size can sometimes be a detriment when you're discussing the play of forwards. Strength, on the other hand, can't be denied. People often confuse size with strength. If you're 6'5 but you play like you're 5'10, you're going to get tossed around and pushed into the corners. If you're 5'10 and play like you're 6'5, you're going to have success despite how big you. That's the name of the game these days, from what i've gathered.
     
  12. Habs4Life

    Habs4Life Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    146
    Location:
    Saint John, NB
    The kid is only 16 year's old!
    Let the kid grow a little!!!!!
     
  13. Teemu

    Teemu Trick question?

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    26,101
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    Trophy Points:
    243
    its never a pleasure to watch the hawks play :p
     
  14. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    Crosby is 16... he'll hit atleast 6'0 when he's finished growing.

    Sullivan is like 28 or 29... he's not young.
     
  15. Heathen

    Heathen Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    ATM Technician
    Location:
    Medicine Hat
    Home Page:
    I wish it didn't matter.... that way Chris St Jaques of the Medicine Hat Tigers might have a chance.
     
  16. RE-HABS

    RE-HABS Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    14,885
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    CANADA
    Mats Naslund and Theo Fleury were great small players both an exagerated 5'6"...probably closer to 5'4".

    Corey Locke could be a decent small player too if he keeps it up in the pro game.
     
  17. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    770
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Size probably is the most overrated aspect of prospect watching. I know I'm guilty of it, but it's one of the most obvious factors when comparing players. You don't even have to watch them play! If two players are equally effective in Junior then it's a good bet the bigger guy would be better in the NHL, especially down the road, say when they hit 25. (it works just as well the other way- if you compare two equally effective 25 year olds, injury free, you can bet the smaller guy was probably better in Junior) When checking stats it's awfully tempting to check out height and weight (even though they might not be totally accurate). If there was a "speed" or "strength" column I would weigh them more but its harder to gauge and other "intangibles" even harder. Take Gilbert Brule and Guillaume Latendresse, approximately equally effective players in Junior with Latendresse's size already factored in (otherwise Brule would be clearly better). I was not surprised Brule out shone Latendresse at the U17's, and I would not be surprised if Latendresse goes ahead in the draft: Not to say Latendresse will be better come draft time (he might) but I think the scouts will go with size unless Brule is "clearly better" at that time.
     
  18. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    48,464
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    South Cackalacky
    Size is not as big a deal now as it was in the decade after Eric Lindros was drafted, when being big alone could often get you picked in the first round (see Zultek, Matt). While it's still a reasonably useful asset, teams are not afraid to take smaller, skilled players with high picks anymore.
     
  19. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    33,602
    Likes Received:
    1,525
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    Blasting the bull***
    simon gamache,pm bouchard , steve sullivan, martin st louis, trevor daley,daniel briere

    FDW is right, size + skill is better than just skill. As good as these players are how good would they be if they were 6'2" 210 with the same skill level? I'd say quite a bit better and they could afford to be meaner.

    Imagine 6'4" 230lb wrecking ball in Tootoo, just how much would he trade for at the deal line?

    Theo Fluery the little ball of hate, now imagine if he was a Bertuzzi sized ball of hate. He might not have scored any more points as a giant, but he'd have left a trail of bodies in his wake.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2004
  20. AJ1982

    AJ1982 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New York
    Home Page:
    The fact is smaller guys are more likely to have elite skills than big guys, smaller guys tend to be more faster and more agile.
     
  21. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    Messages:
    11,186
    Likes Received:
    770
    Trophy Points:
    169
    I tend to agree with this, but I think the smaller guys also develop sooner and the "elite skills" suit the junior game "relatively" better and size and strength suit the NHL "relatively" better. (both are required at a higher level in the NHL, thus the "relative" term) This is at least partly because the rinks are the same size (therefore "relatively" smaller in the NHL with larger/faster players) leaving more room for skills in Junior than in the NHL. So all things being overall equal in Junior with size advantage and skill advantage factored in for the Junior game this leaves size the trump card switching to the NHL unless the rules are changed to reduce the clutch 'n grab or open up the game somehow.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"