Size comparison of metropolitan areas with at least one major league team

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
Montreal and Vancouver are very under-represented in the major sports. Should see at least another MLB and NBA team in Canada. Montreal should have one of each, Vancouver should have one.

Also, if you look at the Golden Horseshoe (31k sq/km) (similar area that is done for Chicago at 29k sq/km), Toronto's population should be 9,245,438. Toronto should be on the radar for an NFL team in the future.

Seems Houston would be a good candidate for the NHL. Wonder if they're next on the list if Arizona has to move.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

Registered User
Feb 4, 2018
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Tatooine
Also, if you look at the Golden Horseshoe (similar area that is done for Chicago), Toronto's population should be 9,245,438. Toronto should be on the radar for an NFL team in the future.

Too far down the list. They don't want to expand past 32 and won't since no owner (as they should) wants to let anyone else sit at the big boy table. Highly doubt anyone would want to relocate to Toronto. London and then Mexico City are their two main international goals and offer a lot more than Toronto ever could.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
I'd love to know what the basis for his numbers are. For Raleigh, for instance, using MSA's deceptive since Raleigh and Cary are in one MSA while Durham and Chapel Hill are in another and the Raleigh-Durham-Cary CSA is a more accurate stat (and based on the 2018 estimate it stands at a little north of 2M people).
 
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smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
Too far down the list. They don't want to expand past 32 and won't since no owner (as they should) wants to let anyone else sit at the big boy table. Highly doubt anyone would want to relocate to Toronto. London and then Mexico City are their two main international goals and offer a lot more than Toronto ever could.
I'm not huge on the NFL, but what do those cities offer that Toronto doesn't?

Almost all of my buddies are huge NFL fans. There's a major passion for the league here. Do London and Mexico City have a well established NFL fanbase already?
 
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Barclay Donaldson

Registered User
Feb 4, 2018
2,531
2,058
Tatooine
I'm not huge on the NFL, but what do those cities offer that Toronto doesn't?

Almost all of my buddies are huge NFL fans. There's a major passion for the league here. Do London and Mexico City have a well established NFL fanbase already?

London offers much a much bigger stadium. Wembley in London is 90,000 and the biggest in Canada is the Olympic Stadium in Montréal which is well under 60,000. There are only 8 home games, so 30,000 seats is a gigantic difference. London is the banking center of Europe, although with Brexit that may end so the corporate support from Toronto would be good but possibly not as good as London. London metro area also has more people than the entire population of Ontario. They have an established population of local fans that have sold out the NFL games played there in minutes.

Mexico City offers North America's second largest metro area at more than 20 million people and the Azteca Stadium set the NFL attendance record set in 1994 with something like 110,000 people. There was a turf issue a few years ago that took the wind out of the sails slightly, but with 20 million people, it's a huge market.
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
They aren't 1-2 hours away from an NFL team already?
They are. It's not the same as having a team based in your city though. A Canadian team would bring together a lot of the Canadian market and would probably be a pretty valuable addition.

Would you, as a Sabres fan, be happy if your closest team was located in Toronto? It's only 1-2 hours up the road.
 

smitty10

Registered User
Aug 6, 2009
9,805
2,643
Toronto
London offers much a much bigger stadium. Wembley in London is 90,000 and the biggest in Canada is the Olympic Stadium in Montréal which is well under 60,000. There are only 8 home games, so 30,000 seats is a gigantic difference. London is the banking center of Europe, although with Brexit that may end so the corporate support from Toronto would be good but possibly not as good as London. London metro area also has more people than the entire population of Ontario. They have an established population of local fans that have sold out the NFL games played there in minutes.

Mexico City offers North America's second largest metro area at more than 20 million people and the Azteca Stadium set the NFL attendance record set in 1994 with something like 110,000 people. There was a turf issue a few years ago that took the wind out of the sails slightly, but with 20 million people, it's a huge market.
True, I can imagine that a legit NFL bid would result in a large NFL stadium being built in Toronto though. Corporate support wouldn't be an issue in this city either.
 

Mightygoose

Registered User
Nov 5, 2012
5,586
1,382
Ajax, ON
I would include MLS teams too. With expansion teams going over 300 million now, it's getting harder to call it minor these days.

As it grows it will continue to compete for the same discretional and corporate dollars as the traditional big 4 do. This would put Austin on the list next year.
 
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garbageteam

Registered User
Jan 7, 2010
1,403
641
MLS should definitely be on there now. Sports columnists and elitists can continue to dig their head in the sand but barring a severe decline MLS team valuations and team payrolls will ascend at a much quicker rate than any of the big four. If the NHL can be talked about in the same tier as the NFL, the MLS can be roped in with the NHL as it'll be the NHL's little brother soon enough (especially once they hit 32+ teams).

But even with their respective MLS teams (some of the worst performers and valuations in the entire league), Montreal and Vancouver are still heavily underrepresented given their size and influence and can easily support an NBA team (in Vancouver's case) and an MLB team (in Montreal's case).
 

sabresfan65

Vegas HAS Hockey!!
Sponsor
May 23, 2004
1,893
348
Vegas
They are. It's not the same as having a team based in your city though. A Canadian team would bring together a lot of the Canadian market and would probably be a pretty valuable addition.

Would you, as a Sabres fan, be happy if your closest team was located in Toronto? It's only 1-2 hours up the road.

I have dealt with the closest MLB team and my favorite team being in Toronto for years, even if I currently live in Las Vegas. Which was awesome for me when the Jays AAA team was the 51s even if it wasn't great for the team.

While I agree with you about this, this is a consideration when looking at new markets. Mexico City and London have no easily accessible teams but people in Toronto do.
 
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KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,007
3,239
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
It's humorous to me that San Francisco plays in San Jose, which the government CSA stats (which are about commuting to work) say are different markets.

And yet, Candlestick to Levis stadium is a shorter drive for me to get to the Coyotes arena or Cardinals stadium, And I'm on the northern part of the East valley.

After going to the Coyotes game last night, I'm thoroughly convinced that the Phoenix market is just fine for hockey if they could have built an arena downtown, or if Talking Stick was big enough for the NHL and could accommodate both.
 

gstommylee

Registered User
Jan 31, 2012
14,400
2,742
umm that chart has an error it doesn't show Seattle having a mlb team. Either intentionally (Seattle's MLB is terrible) or just forgotten.

Edit

It was corrected in a later tweet.

 
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PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,852
564
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
It's humorous to me that San Francisco plays in San Jose, which the government CSA stats (which are about commuting to work) say are different markets.

And yet, Candlestick to Levis stadium is a shorter drive for me to get to the Coyotes arena or Cardinals stadium, And I'm on the northern part of the East valley.

After going to the Coyotes game last night, I'm thoroughly convinced that the Phoenix market is just fine for hockey if they could have built an arena downtown, or if Talking Stick was big enough for the NHL and could accommodate both.

Please google "Google Busses" when referencing Bay Area commuting. And don't be surprised about commuters from Sacramento and Stockton and Tracy into the Bay Area, because they silly like that.

And I said "google google" and didn't get swallowed by a Kraken nor died from laughing at my work. So there's that.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,007
3,239
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
Please google "Google Busses" when referencing Bay Area commuting. And don't be surprised about commuters from Sacramento and Stockton and Tracy into the Bay Area, because they silly like that.

And I said "google google" and didn't get swallowed by a Kraken nor died from laughing at my work. So there's that.

I know, I was one of them. I've been to almost all the arenas/stadiums in the Bay Area. It's not bad to drive from Stockton to Dublin, hop on the BART and be delivered to Oracle/Coliseum, or to downtown SF and walk a bit to AT&T or whatever it's called this week. So much better than driving to a Sharks game.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
It's humorous to me that San Francisco plays in San Jose, which the government CSA stats (which are about commuting to work) say are different markets.

And yet, Candlestick to Levis stadium is a shorter drive for me to get to the Coyotes arena or Cardinals stadium, And I'm on the northern part of the East valley.

After going to the Coyotes game last night, I'm thoroughly convinced that the Phoenix market is just fine for hockey if they could have built an arena downtown, or if Talking Stick was big enough for the NHL and could accommodate both.

San Jose and San Francisco are in the same CSA - the San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland CSA. They *are* different MSAs, though, which goes back to what I was saying about wanting to know where his numbers come from.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
76,590
4,549
Behind A Tree
Thanks for this, I think you'll see Nashville get a MLB team if that league expands. Would like to see another NBA team in this country for sure.
 

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