TSN: Sittler left off all time TSN list of our LEAFS?

[Stephen]

He is, but Baun shouldn’t be there either.

What about Turnbull? Not a dynasty era Leaf obviously but he had some great numbers in the 70s on respectable Leafs teams. On the same tier as Kaberle and McCabe.

I think O’Dog made a great point. Bryan Berard probably would have made his way onto that list. Sort of the original Morgan Rielly with more physicality. Imagine the defense corps the Leafs would have had with him and Kaberle and McCabe in the 2000s.

 

[The Iceman]

Vaive seems more relevant because of the Matthews goal record hunt this year but I agree. Doesn’t feel like he should be there.

Back to back to back 50+ goal seasons on some pretty weak teams. 7 seasons as a Leaf with 32 goals being his worst goal output.
1st season as a Leaf 33 goals and 229 pims as a 21 year old.

He deserves to be there. Great Leaf captain.

 

[Stephen]

Could Sundin not be argued over Sittler? Led the team in scoring 12 times, holds numerous franchise records including points, goals, game winning goals, overtime goals, and powerplay goals.

While Sittler has higher per game averages with the Leafs, it came in a decade that saw a rather drastic climb in scoring leading into the shooting gallery that was the 80s

Sundin and Sittler were at a pretty similar level. I wouldn’t argue for one over the other other than the fact that I actually watched Sundin and feel like the Quinn era was the high point of modern Leaf history.

 

[Dreakmur]

What about Turnbull? Not a dynasty era Leaf obviously but he had some great numbers in the 70s on respectable Leafs teams. On the same tier as Kaberle and McCabe.

I think O’Dog made a great point. Bryan Berard probably would have made his way onto that list. Sort of the original Morgan Rielly with more physicality. Imagine the defense corps the Leafs would have had with him and Kaberle and McCabe in the 2000s.

Turnbull never received any serious Norris consideration.

 

[ToMaLe]

What about Turnbull? Not a dynasty era Leaf obviously but he had some great numbers in the 70s on respectable Leafs teams. On the same tier as Kaberle and McCabe.

I think O’Dog made a great point. Bryan Berard probably would have made his way onto that list. Sort of the original Morgan Rielly with more physicality. Imagine the defense corps the Leafs would have had with him and Kaberle and McCabe in the 2000s.

Loved Potvin, but man I don't know if I was ever so happy about a trade, getting Berard. His skating was right up there with Mogilny IMO. Still hate Hossa!

 

[Stephen]

Turnbull never received any serious Norris consideration.

Sure didn't, but did Baun ever receive that kind of consideration?

 

[Duke Silver]

It's not the best 20 Leafs, it's the best Leafs team. Thus why they had a checking line and shutdown pair on there, which is why guys like Pulford made the team.

Forcing a 19-20 Leaf in there was weird criteria, but Salming-Turnbull and Stanley-Horton were both excellent defensive pairings.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sure didn't, but did Baun ever receive that kind of consideration?

Yes

 

[Morbo]

I think O’Dog made a great point. Bryan Berard probably would have made his way onto that list. Sort of the original Morgan Rielly with more physicality. Imagine the defense corps the Leafs would have had with him and Kaberle and McCabe in the 2000s.

Berard could still play in the NHL with one eye. That is incredible talent.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

What about Turnbull? Not a dynasty era Leaf obviously but he had some great numbers in the 70s on respectable Leafs teams. On the same tier as Kaberle and McCabe.

I think O’Dog made a great point. Bryan Berard probably would have made his way onto that list. Sort of the original Morgan Rielly with more physicality. Imagine the defense corps the Leafs would have had with him and Kaberle and McCabe in the 2000s.

I'll never forget the lead up to the Potvin trade. Probably one of the most anticipated trades in Leaf history, where they were working with both the luxury of time and a power of position. I remember the rumours of getting Brian Savage from Montreal or Rob Niedermayer from the Panthers. Then bam, Quinn pulls the trigger getting the silky smooth skating, extremely talented Berard.

He had the makings of being a long-term Leaf. That unfortunate injury derailed what would have been a very good career. And yes, he would have become one of the best d-men in Leafs history.

 

[Stephen]

I'll never forget the lead up to the Potvin trade. Probably one of the most anticipated trades in Leaf history, where they were working with both the luxury of time and a power of position. I remember the rumours of getting Brian Savage from Montreal or Rob Niedermayer from the Panthers. Then bam, Quinn pulls the trigger getting the silky smooth skating, extremely talented Berard.

He had the makings of being a long-term Leaf. That unfortunate injury derailed what would have been a very good career. And yes, he would have become one of the best d-men in Leafs history.

What a walk down memory lane! Potvin was my favourite Leaf as a kid growing up but by the time Cujo took his job and he walked out on the Leafs it was time to go. I still remember the wild swings in speculative trade value. Like you said. It ranged from Rob Niedermayer to Brian Savage to just crap. Although what’s also weird is I think the season before the Leafs signed Cujo there was some speculation Potvin could be traded for Pavel Bure.

But yeah, Bryan Berard. Rough around the edges but a recent first overall franchise defenseman, Calder winner, compared to Leetch and Chelios. He had stalled somewhat in New York with Milbury but was great right off the hop here in the Quinn system.

When he went down with the injury it was interesting how the Leafs were able to steal Bryan McCabe from Chicago. And if you all remember McCabe, Berard and Kenny Jonsson were once the core of the Islanders future super blueline. And Jonsson was stolen from us in that Clark and Schneider deal. But then Karpovtsev was acquired for Schneider and we got McCabe for Schneider a couple of years later.

But imagine what a Berard, McCabe, Kaberle trio could have done for us those years. Probably would have beaten Carolina and at least Philly once.

When we got Rielly I felt like we finally got that Berard 2.0.

Anyway I’m rambling like an old timer here but I guess that’s what these topics are meant to do!

 

[deletethis]

I think several of us missed that the team was meant to consist of a real team: scoring lines and a defensive line plus proper defensive pairs with left and right side defensemen including a shutdown pairing. Baun played the right side so there weren't that many alternatives. After thinking about it, I think a defensive shutdown pairing of Carl Brewer and Jim Thomson is a much better pairing than Stanley-Baun. Brewer and Thomson would have played more minutes on their respective teams. And Thomson won 4 Stanley Cups as the team's top defender. Thomson also did a lot for players' benefits along with Ted Lindsay and paid a personal price for it having his career end prematurely. Thomson is probably the most unsung star player in Leafs' history.

 

[Mess]

Sure didn't, but did Baun ever receive that kind of consideration?

Bobby Baun did score an OT game winning goal that eventually lead to a Stanley Cup winning season for the Leafs while playing on a broken ankle.

It was 1964. In Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit Red Wings, Leaf defenseman Bob Baun fell to the ice in excruciating pain after blocking a slap shot off his ankle late in the third period.

Baun was carried off on a stretcher and was presumed to be out for the remainder of the series. During the intermission, Baun refused to have his ankle X-rayed. Instead, he insisted it be frozen and, miraculously, he skated out for the overtime session.

The Maple Leafs, facing a three games to two deficit at the time, were in need of a hero to keep their Stanley Cup dreams alive. At the 1:42 mark of overtime, Baun drilled a shot from the point that beat Detroit netminder Terry Sawchuk, giving the Leafs a Game 6 victory.

Inspired by his heroics, the Leafs easily won Game 7, 4-0, giving the team a third consecutive Stanley Cup victory. It was not until after the series that it was discovered Bob Baun had scored that overtime winner on a fractured ankle.

 

[Stephen]

Bobby Baun did score an OT game winning goal that eventually lead to a Stanley Cup winning season for the Leafs while playing on a broken ankle.

It was 1964. In Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit Red Wings, Leaf defenseman Bob Baun fell to the ice in excruciating pain after blocking a slap shot off his ankle late in the third period.

Baun was carried off on a stretcher and was presumed to be out for the remainder of the series. During the intermission, Baun refused to have his ankle X-rayed. Instead, he insisted it be frozen and, miraculously, he skated out for the overtime session.

The Maple Leafs, facing a three games to two deficit at the time, were in need of a hero to keep their Stanley Cup dreams alive. At the 1:42 mark of overtime, Baun drilled a shot from the point that beat Detroit netminder Terry Sawchuk, giving the Leafs a Game 6 victory.

Inspired by his heroics, the Leafs easily won Game 7, 4-0, giving the team a third consecutive Stanley Cup victory. It was not until after the series that it was discovered Bob Baun had scored that overtime winner on a fractured ankle.

Definitely a legendary moment in Leaf history. I guess it’s a balance between representing the dynasty era vs. representing players who filled more prominent roles on less competitive Leafs teams.

 

[Stephen]

Would also be interesting to do a “leftover” Leafs team with names like Gilmour, Sittler, Primeau, Drillon, Kessel, Bentley, Kelly, Ellis, Ullman, Damphousse, Leeman, Andreychuk, Roberts, Duff, Turnbull, Kaberle, McCabe, Brewer, Bailey, Thompson, Day, Parent, Potvin, Joseph, Lumley etc. to pick and choose from depending on eligibility.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Would also be interesting to do a “leftover” Leafs team with names like Gilmour, Sittler, Primeau, Drillon, Kessel, Bentley, Kelly, Ellis, Ullman, Damphousse, Leeman, Andreychuk, Roberts, Duff, Turnbull, Kaberle, McCabe, Brewer, Bailey, Thompson, Day, Parent, Potvin, Joseph, Lumley etc. to pick and choose from depending on eligibility.

I did that on page 2 of the thread near the bottom

 

[The Iceman]

I'll never forget the lead up to the Potvin trade. Probably one of the most anticipated trades in Leaf history, where they were working with both the luxury of time and a power of position. I remember the rumours of getting Brian Savage from Montreal or Rob Niedermayer from the Panthers. Then bam, Quinn pulls the trigger getting the silky smooth skating, extremely talented Berard.

He had the makings of being a long-term Leaf. That unfortunate injury derailed what would have been a very good career. And yes, he would have become one of the best d-men in Leafs history.

One of my biggest regrets as a Leaf fan was the breaking up of the young D from that era
Berard 22
Kaberle 21
Yushkevich 27
Markov 23
and the following year turning Karpotsev into a
25 year old McCabe

 

[Stephen]

I did that on page 2 of the thread near the bottom

We could also do an All-Mercenary Leaf team of good short term Leafs. Not sure what the cut off in tenure would be but that would be fun.

 

[Leaf Lander]

We did a a leaf players draft as welll

Mess made pics for all teams

This was 15 yrs ago when we were all teenagers
..right guys lol

 

[tmlms13]

Only way Sittler get in is if Morgan Reilly becomes the required active player instead of Matthews.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I feel like Kaberle should be there

I think I would put in Ian Turnbull in place of Baun (who I think is generally underrated) rather than Kaberle, but it's close.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think several of us missed that the team was meant to consist of a real team: scoring lines and a defensive line plus proper defensive pairs with left and right side defensemen including a shutdown pairing. Baun played the right side so there weren't that many alternatives. After thinking about it, I think a defensive shutdown pairing of Carl Brewer and Jim Thomson is a much better pairing than Stanley-Baun. Brewer and Thomson would have played more minutes on their respective teams. And Thomson won 4 Stanley Cups as the team's top defender. Thomson also did a lot for players' benefits along with Ted Lindsay and paid a personal price for it having his career end prematurely. Thomson is probably the most unsung star player in Leafs' history.

I played goal with/against both Stanley and Brewer, and I'd call it about even.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Considering the criteria, I don't really have a problem with the list. A couple of "maybe A instead of B", but nothing major.

My only objection is the one criterion that sticks out like a sore thumb: must have a current player. Why? To suck up to kids?

I understand why: without that, you have only two players selected who played in the last thirty years. And most of the arguments over who should or shouldn't be included emphasize that the team has been pretty bad for a long time.

 

[member 300185]

I seriously don't get the love for Sundin. Let me quickly count up his team awards and personal awards....that was quick....total of zero.

Just under a PPG player. The only thing he should be considered an award for is longevity. As a person who honestly never missed a leaf game since I started watching hockey 52 years ago Sundin is my least favourite leaf. He had all the tools to win including a big frame and he took it for granted and I can't tell you how many nights he took off. Thats a big list.

Yes, I know, he led this category and that category, but that's because he played for so long with the Leafs. He was a soft player that never liked the big game.

Imagine that 6'5 frame crashing and banging with a combination of his skill. He would have been something special but does not have the drive.

And then of course all the lies and deceit when he was leaving.

Anyhoo, Sittler should be ahead of Sundin. Gilmour should be ahead of Sundin.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't TSN slide a Center on another team to the wing just so they could fit another Center for that teams all time list ?