TSN: Sittler left off all time TSN list of our LEAFS?

[JT AM da real deal]

What do you think?

To me my top 4:
1. Teeder
2. Keon
3. Apps
4. Sundin

I don't have him in. I would take Gilmour over him too.

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[ACC1224]

The All-Time 7: TSN's Toronto Maple Leafs All-Time Team - TSN.ca

 

[ACC1224]

These type of lists are tough. I would say the majority here don't go back further than Sundin/Gilmour era.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

These type of lists are tough. I would say the majority here don't go back further than Sundin/Gilmour era.

Yeah for sure ... I can't see Matty on it either ... he likely will be but right now not for me

Salming all day everyday ... between him and Horton for best Leaf defense ever

Vaive for me is not a great Leaf either ... one of best slappers yes ... but his skating was weak

Goalies maybe only ones everyone can agree on

 

[Cor]

Yeah for sure ... I can't see Matty on it either ... he likely will be but right now not for me

Salming all day everyday ... between him and Horton for best Leaf defense ever

Vaive for me is not a great Leaf either ... one of best slappers yes ... but his skating was weak

Goalies maybe only ones everyone can agree on

Matthews on it because for some reason they made it a thing that all of these teams have to have a current player on it.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Matthews on it because for some reason they made it a thing that all of these teams have to have a current player on it.

Thanks for clarification ... when I saw him above Keon I started to laugh ... Keon was best Leaf I ever saw ... but my dad saw Teeder and he said he carried team on his back many a night to win Cup games ... he said it was close for him but he would give coin flip to Teeder

 

[hamzarocks]

Sittler >>> Clarke and Vaive, Mcdonald, Pulford, and Matthews(for career as a leaf for now since matthews only played 4 years)

 

[Mickey Marner]

Given the criteria Sitler was the odd man out.

TSN All-Time Team Eligibility Criteria
□ Team: two goalies, six defencemen, 12 forwards and one foundational player
□ Members must have played at least 225 games with the Maple Leafs
□ At least one member of the all-time team must be from the 2019-20 Maple Leafs
□ Players are slotted in positions they played with the Maple Leafs
□ One line must be comprised of defensive standouts, aka a checking line
□ One pair must be comprised of suffocating defenders, aka a shutdown pair
□ Lines and pairs are put together because they fit together, not because they are necessarily the first, second and third best at their positions
□ Foundational players are defined as players part of the fabric – the DNA – of a franchise
□ Last cuts by position are exactly as advertised, the players who just missed selection to the all-time team

 

[rimshot]

Yeah for sure ... I can't see Matty on it either ... he likely will be but right now not for me

Salming all day everyday ... between him and Horton for best Leaf defense ever

Vaive for me is not a great Leaf either ... one of best slappers yes ... but his skating was weak

Goalies maybe only ones everyone can agree on

I am with you there. For many years of list making, that I can remember, it has been Apps,Keon and then Kennedy with the argument being whether Keon should appear above or below Kennedy. I have trouble choosing between Sittler and Sundin for the last centre position. I would drop Vaive completely and call either Sundin or Sittler a right winger though.

 

[TakeTheBody]

No defenceman for thirty years? That explains a few things.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I am with you there. For many years of list making, that I can remember, it has been Apps,Keon and then Kennedy with the argument being whether Keon should appear above or below Kennedy. I have trouble choosing between Sittler and Sundin for the last centre position. I would drop Vaive completely and call either Sundin or Sittler a right winger though.

Sittler actually played LW for most of his first two years.

 

[MSZ]

I have read their criteria, but Dougie has to be on that list over Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

Matthews on it because for some reason they made it a thing that all of these teams have to have a current player on it.

I think they made that rule up specifically so a guy like Auston Matthews would pop up on a list like this. Way more sizzle than Sittler/Gilmour.

That said, I don't know how I feel about Rick Vaive. I was too young to have seen him play and he certainly has those great 80s numbers, namely the 50 goal seasons. Relevant because Matthews is in the hunt to break his record, but he nalso ever broke 100 points(in the 80s!) and had relatively few seasons over 80 points. I kind of feel like Phil Kessel may have been the better age adjusted RW option here.

 

[Stephen]

No defenceman for thirty years? That explains a few things.

True, but I also kind of think having three Leafs from the 60s dynasty on defense is a bit default too. It would have been interesting to have found a spot for Tomas Kaberle, as weird as that sounds.

 

[Cor]

No defenceman for thirty years? That explains a few things.

I feel like Kaberle should be there

 

[robertmac43]

I don't have him in. I would take Gilmour over him too.

Sittler has to be in there ahead of Gilmour imo. He had a longer more consistent Leafs career.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I did a series of threads a few years ago where we voted on the Leafs All-Time Team for the 100th anniversary season. Leafs All-Time Team Vote: Final Results

This is what we ended up with:

Mahovlich-Sundin-Conacher
Clark-Gilmour-Armstrong
Jackson-Sittler-McDonald
Andreychuk-Keon-Vaive

Salming-Horton
Clancy-Day
Kaberle-Thomson

Bower
Broda​

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

As for the team TSN came up with, Clark ought to be knocked off the list since there were a handful of players better than him at LW. Glad Syl Apps is getting respect on this list, based on everything I've read about him his position as the top pivot is well earned. Don't have much problem with anyone else. Matthews is obviously out of place right now and is only here because of the "current player" stipulation, but I can't think of anyone else on the current roster who would be on the team.

Also that 225 games threshold is pretty random. Three full 82 game seasons is 246 games.

 

[Dreakmur]

I did a series of threads a few years ago where we voted on the Leafs All-Time Team for the 100th anniversary season. Leafs All-Time Team Vote: Final Results

This is what we ended up with:

Mahovlich-Sundin-Conacher
Clark-Gilmour-Armstrong
Jackson-Sittler-McDonald
Andreychuk-Keon-Vaive

Salming-Horton
Clancy-Day
Kaberle-Thomson

Bower
Broda​

If you’re missing two of the top 3 Leafs, that’s a problem, right?

Syl Apps is the best offensive player ever to wear the uniform. 5 straight years as a Hart finalist. He captained the team to a Stanley Cup, then served in WWII, and came back to win more Cups.

Ted Kennedy is certainly the best playoff performer among Leafs, and is among the all-time elite. He has 3 retroactive Conn Smythe Trophies, as selected by a HHOF committee. His Hart Trophy win was more of a “career achievement” award than an MVP, but that says a lot too.

 

[Dreakmur]

True, but I also kind of think having three Leafs from the 60s dynasty on defense is a bit default too. It would have been interesting to have found a spot for Tomas Kaberle, as weird as that sounds.

Tough to justify a guy who was never top-10 in Norris or All-Star voting.

Bryan McCabe would be more likely, since he as least landed two top-10s, including a second team all star and a stint with Team Canada’s Olympic squad.

 

[Stephen]

Tough to justify a guy who was never top-10 in Norris or All-Star voting.

Bryan McCabe would be more likely, since he as least landed two top-10s, including a second team all star and a stint with Team Canada’s Olympic squad.

Sure, but I'm not sure if Stanley and Baun were individual star players either. More like role guys on a dynasty.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sure, but I'm not sure if Stanley and Baun were individual star players either. More like role guys on a dynasty.

Baun, sure.

Stanley was a 3 time second all star for the Leafs. That’s one hell of a role guy.

That left side is a lock - Salming, Clancy and Stanley. The right side is Horton, Thomson... and somebody. Harry Cameron maybe. Red Horner was a decent pick. I’d probably go with Hap Day.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If you’re missing two of the top 3 Leafs, that’s a problem, right?

Syl Apps is the best offensive player ever to wear the uniform. 5 straight years as a Hart finalist. He captained the team to a Stanley Cup, then served in WWII, and came back to win more Cups.

Ted Kennedy is certainly the best playoff performer among Leafs, and is among the all-time elite. He has 3 retroactive Conn Smythe Trophies, as selected by a HHOF committee. His Hart Trophy win was more of a “career achievement” award than an MVP, but that says a lot too.

This board skews young so unfortunately that meant guys like Apps and Kennedy were overlooked in favour of more contemporary Leafs greats. I agree that Apps and Kennedy should be on any All-Time Leafs team, but that was just a fun vote. A lot of the older guys on here tried in vain to tell people about older Leafs greats but were just outvoted.

 

[nsleaf]

Hard to compare/rate players from different eras but I would question Vaive on the list, there are just too many players that were better. Credit to him though, he played on a really bad Leafs team and still managed to rack up the goals.

 

[deletethis]

If there are only 4 centers, those 4 were bigger stars.