Since Tavares’ departure, the Isles have gone further than the Leafs all 3 years

[notDatsyuk]

this is revisionism

he wasn't the best captain, he certainly lacked a certain charisma... but he was the consummate pro in terms of his demeanor, training, and competitive-edge, which set the tone for the rest of the team. The Isles locker-room obviously respected him, if they didn't perhaps "love" him the way they seem to adore Lee.

The fact that JT captained a team which won a playoff round means he isn't a "bad captain" IMHO

If winning one playoff round in twelve seasons means your not bad, what does winning five (and counting) in three seasons mean?

 

[saintunspecified]

It also doesn't happen if TOR doesn't decide not to resign their GM. Nobody disputes that.

Yes.

Which is all to say that John Tavares's decision to go to free agency set a chain of events in motion that allowed NYI to benefit from opportunities they were lucky to be presented with. It really illustrates how consequences, good and bad, are unforseeable. Still, it is not John Tavares's absence as a hockey player for NYI that explains NYI's success or Toronto's relative failures. It was forseeable *at the time* Tavares signed that Toronto was overinvesting in forwards. (I and many others said as much at the time.)

I'm not saying that they would have gotten him, but I do think that a hypothetical Toronto roster that were to contain Alex Pietrangelo instead of John Tavares would be a better playoff roster than the one that just failed, and also that I do not think that is an insult to John Tavares. Fit, and roster construction matters.

I thought, before that offseason (before 2018-2019), that Tavares should join the Blues. Obviously they got O'Reilly instead. I thought at the time that STL would have been JT's best shot at a cup.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yes.

Which is all to say that John Tavares's decision to go to free agency set a chain of events in motion that allowed NYI to benefit from opportunities they were lucky to be presented with. It really illustrates how consequences, good and bad, are unforseeable. Still, it is not John Tavares's absence as a hockey player for NYI that explains NYI's success or Toronto's relative failures. It was forseeable *at the time* Tavares signed that Toronto was overinvesting in forwards. (I and many others said as much at the time.)

I'm not saying that they would have gotten him, but I do think that a hypothetical Toronto roster that were to contain Alex Pietrangelo instead of John Tavares would be a better playoff roster than the one that just failed, and also that I do not think that is an insult to John Tavares. Fit, and roster construction matters.

I thought, before that offseason (before 2018-2019), that Tavares should join the Blues. Obviously they got O'Reilly instead. I thought at the time that STL would have been JT's best shot at a cup.

I certainly would not blame JT for Toronto's problems, just as I didn't blame Kessel or Phaneuf.

(I'm not thrilled by the way he left, but that's a separate issue.)

I'm also not saying he was 'the problem' in Ny

The topic is really about management styles between the teams. JT, going from one team to the other, is just the obvious demarcation. Komarov and Martin going the other way are possibly just as valid signs of the different philosophies, but not as flashy.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ctrl+F: Pajama

So then as far as my Boyhood Leafs Dream goes — just to set the record straight:
I absolutely was “Pajama Boy.”
You know, guilty as charged. And I absolutely deserve every bit of ribbing that I got on that one: I had the pajamas, I had the bedsheets, the blankets, the pillow cases. Man, it was just — it was an absurd, obsessed amount of Leafs stuff. And it was the time of my life.

Don't make me read any more. But it sounds to me like this is an afterthought type of article. He admits he's "Pajama Boy"

Don't think he coined that though.

Good on him for owning it anyway.

At least he grew up to help make the leafs do what they do best: disappoint

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Imagine Barry Trotz with the Leafs roster, that would be scary.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

At least he grew up to help make the leafs do what they do best: disappoint

And here I'm thinking "man, I hope JT is ok"

That's how much most Leafs fans care about the teams failures right now, and hockey in general.

 

[koyvoo]

What an odd way to judge "success".

I know as leaf fans we try to downplay actual results and pump up hypotheticals, but really, how would you suggest a better way to judge success in a direct comparison between these two teams since the transfer of a captain from one to the other?

I’m not even sure there was an attempt for anyone to judge success. Seems like it was just an illustration of how they’ve been better than us since it’s happened.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

Imagine Barry Trotz with the Leafs roster, that would be scary.

I dont think Barry could take a roster of cupcakes and win playoff games, tbh

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Imagine Barry Trotz with the Leafs roster, that would be scary.

Players have to buy in 100% to Trotz's system for it to work as well as it has for the Isles. What about that Leafs' core suggests they'd be willing to buy in to a defensive system that probably would affect their ability to pile up points?

 

[FlameChampion]

I'm not a Toronto or Islanders fan, but I personally give Trotz more credit rather than blaming Tavares. I think hes one of the few elite coaches.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Players have to buy in 100% to Trotz's system for it to work as well as it has for the Isles. What about that Leafs' core suggests they'd be willing to buy in to a defensive system that probably would affect their ability to pile up points?

Because, to this point, Trotz has gotten all of his teams to buy into it. Washington had that same kind of rep before he got there.

 

[jfhabs]

There's no information whatsoever to suggest JT is a bad captain. Althought his record is very bad.
He's a good media guy as far as I can tell....

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Seems clear who won the Lamoriello/Tavares swap.

 

[Davenport]

Yes.

Which is all to say that John Tavares's decision to go to free agency set a chain of events in motion that allowed NYI to benefit from opportunities they were lucky to be presented with. It really illustrates how consequences, good and bad, are unforseeable. Still, it is not John Tavares's absence as a hockey player for NYI that explains NYI's success or Toronto's relative failures. It was forseeable *at the time* Tavares signed that Toronto was overinvesting in forwards. (I and many others said as much at the time.)

I'm not saying that they would have gotten him, but I do think that a hypothetical Toronto roster that were to contain Alex Pietrangelo instead of John Tavares would be a better playoff roster than the one that just failed, and also that I do not think that is an insult to John Tavares. Fit, and roster construction matters.

I thought, before that offseason (before 2018-2019), that Tavares should join the Blues. Obviously they got O'Reilly instead. I thought at the time that STL would have been JT's best shot at a cup.

BINGO!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because, to this point, Trotz has gotten all of his teams to buy into it. Washington had that same kind of rep before he got there.

The style the Caps played when they won the Cup isn't the same as the style he's got the Islanders playing. Similar requirements (ie. responsible defensively, forwards backchecking, etc.) but the Caps didn't play the same stingy defense that the Isles play.

With the Isles it's a full team buy-in to playing a stingy defense that clogs up the neutral zone and collapses to the front of the net to not allow a bunch of high quality chances in favor of outside quantity. With the Caps, it was more of a "okay, we'll let you do your thing offensively but I also want you to not ignore your defensive responsibilities".

It also ignores the fact that the Caps' core, particularly its captain, always showed up in the playoffs. Trotz isn't a magician. He can't magically turn playoff ghosts into playoff warriors.

 

[HabsQC]

Not really fair this year as he was injured in the very first game. It just tells how well the Islanders were managed since JT's departure more than anything else. Leafs are a joke, but we knew that already

TBH Leafs were really close to going further this year. Probably a JT away from the final four.

 

[Thrasymachus]

I dont think Barry could take a roster of cupcakes and win playoff games, tbh

idk, I disagree. I think a few of our own players were cupcakes before Barry sunk his teeth in this roster...

I bet he could sprinkle the same compete level on the leafs

hmmm surprisingly delicious turn of phrase

 

[notDatsyuk]

Seems clear who won the Lamoriello/Tavares swap.

I like to call it the Tavares/Komarov trade, but this works too.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

idk, I disagree. I think a few of our own players were cupcakes before Barry sunk his teeth in this roster...

I bet he could sprinkle the same compete level on the leafs

hmmm surprisingly delicious turn of phrase

Were they, though? Which of the current Islanders would you say were lacking drive/heart prior to Trotz arriving?

Most of the Isles that are getting it done in the playoffs are players who've always been hard working and showed good hustle. I guess the closest might be Eberle? Maybe Brock Nelson?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Were they, though? Which of the current Islanders would you say were lacking drive/heart prior to Trotz arriving?

Most of the Isles that are getting it done in the playoffs are players who've always been hard working and showed good hustle. I guess the closest might be Eberle? Maybe Brock Nelson?

Just off the top of my head? Nelson, Beau, Pelech and Pulock are miles better

 

[Raian]

Signing Tavares was the worst thing the Leafs did

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Just off the top of my head? Nelson, Beau, Pelech and Pulock are miles better

Better players. I'm talking strictly about work ethic/drive.

The issue with Toronto's players isn't "skill" or ability. It's they don't seem to have that extra drive to reach that next gear you need in the playoffs.

Nelson's probably the only guy on your list who came across as kind of "lazy" prior to Trotz coming onboard, and whose work ethic/drive has improved since then.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Players have to buy in 100% to Trotz's system for it to work as well as it has for the Isles. What about that Leafs' core suggests they'd be willing to buy in to a defensive system that probably would affect their ability to pile up points?

Yeah, it doesn't help when these guys have the Toronto media to run to and provide cover and remind them how great they all are. I can't imagine if these guys had to face the kind of scrutiny Phil Kessel got there, all because the GM made a dumb trade.

 

[rangersfansince08]

The usual argument from leafs and Habs fans qhen they have nothing else. But we is older than your team.

Loser argument. I'd absolutely cringe if any of my fellow Rangers fans made such a dumb argument.

 

[SI90]