Sportsnet: Simmonds is likely done as a Flyer

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Protest

C`est La Vie
Mar 28, 2008
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Flyer fan here. I think there have been some bad takes on his value here, and appreciate someone defending Simmer, but he was never really a "consistent 30 goal scorer" at any point in his career, if you are using the normal definition of consistent.

29, 28 in 75 games, 32, 31 in 4 straight years..

To a team that's consistent 30 goal production.
 

Starat327

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I don't understand this line of thinking and I think it's the exact opposite.

What have we missed out on by waiting? Is the player injured? No?

You're working yourself into a shoot and cracking under pressure thinking "quick! better take a 3rd now while we still can!"

The end game here is to hope a GM gets jittery towards the end of deadline after watching his rivals get better, and then he thinks "**** it. Big body presence and character of a Wayne Simmonds will put us over the top. Let's do it."

There is a 75% chance that scenario doesn't happen, and we end up taking the same basic deal that has ALWAYS been there for Wayne the last year or so: a 2nd +.

Teams have a finite number of assets, and a lot of teams have already spent said assets. Sure, Simmonds is a different product than 90% of the other rentals on the market, but at the end of the day, theres only so many assets to spend, and so many positions on the roster. While its nice to hope GMs get desperate and go your route, its also entirely feasible that Fletcher is left with the phone in his hand at the 11th hour and Tampa calls and says "he's still there, ill give you a 3rd so you dont lose him for nothing, or we're content to run with our roster as is."

It goes both ways, and im not rejecting the notion that we cant get a fair-ish value return ouright still, but i think the longer we wait, the lesser that chance becomes.
 
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405Exit

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Mar 15, 2018
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Teams have a finite number of assets, and a lot of teams have already spent said assets. Sure, Simmonds is a different product than 90% of the other rentals on the market, but at the end of the day, theres only so many assets to spend, and so many positions on the roster. While its nice to hope GMs get desperate and go your route, its also entirely feasible that Fletcher is left with the phone in his hand at the 11th hour and Tampa calls and says "he's still there, ill give you a 3rd so you dont lose him for nothing, or we're content to run with our roster as is."

It goes both ways, and im not rejecting the notion that we cant get a fair-ish value return ouright still, but i think the longer we wait, the lesser that chance becomes.

Agree. This trade deadline had to be the worst regarding first round picks given out equal to the players talent level.

Simmonds an amazing player. Likely should mandatory land a first. And Zuccarello and Dzingle couldn’t?

These GMs either don’t have one or holding on to it like Fricken gold. I wonder if they know something about this draft class that we don’t?
 

The Burdened

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May 1, 2017
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Teams have a finite number of assets, and a lot of teams have already spent said assets. Sure, Simmonds is a different product than 90% of the other rentals on the market, but at the end of the day, theres only so many assets to spend, and so many positions on the roster. While its nice to hope GMs get desperate and go your route, its also entirely feasible that Fletcher is left with the phone in his hand at the 11th hour and Tampa calls and says "he's still there, ill give you a 3rd so you dont lose him for nothing, or we're content to run with our roster as is."

It goes both ways, and im not rejecting the notion that we cant get a fair-ish value return ouright still, but i think the longer we wait, the lesser that chance becomes.
Boston, Tampa, & Nashville still have the assets tho. That's not even considering the 2-3 other teams that are also being linked.

It's good news for us that Boston & Nashville have done some shopping, but still have some 2019/2020 picks to play with.

My point is we have literally missed out on nothing by waiting. Waiting only increases our chances of maybe a GM getting anxious and decides to part with a late 1st. If not, take the same deal for a 2nd + or that has always been there.

I am glad Fletch is waiting and is not a Panicky Pete.
 

Starat327

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Boston, Tampa, & Nashville still have the assets tho. That's not even considering the 2-3 other teams that are also being linked.

It's good news for us that Boston & Nashville have done some shopping, but still have some 2019/2020 picks to play with.

My point is we have literally missed out on nothing by waiting. Waiting only increases our chances of maybe a GM getting anxious and decides to part with a late 1st.

Again, im not rejecting the notion outright. But yes, we have missed out. Winnipeg has already shipped out their first, so we missed out on that (if youre of the mindset Simmonds was going to return a first), in theory. Toronto already sent their first (or one of them, i cant remember which), so that has sailed.

You see it as a GM getting anxious and overpaying. I see it as other GMs see us sitting with a UFA that we dont want to re-sign, and taking advantage of that situation by offering less because having him here does nothing for us for the remainder of the year. Neither viewpoint is necessarily right or wrong, we just have a philosophical difference.
 
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405Exit

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Boston, Tampa, & Nashville still have the assets tho. That's not even considering the 2-3 other teams that are also being linked.

It's good news for us that Boston & Nashville have done some shopping, but still have some 2019/2020 picks to play with.

My point is we have literally missed out on nothing by waiting. Waiting only increases our chances of maybe a GM getting anxious and decides to part with a late 1st. If not, take the same deal for a 2nd + or that has always been there.

I am glad Fletch is waiting and is not a Panicky Pete.

We’ve seen Zuccarello and Dzingle not land a first. Not sure how Simmonds lands a first as the trade dead line expires. I think the longer you wait the likelihood of that first being there isn’t.

Teams who shipped out firsts did it already.
 

405Exit

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Mar 15, 2018
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Again, im not rejecting the notion outright. But yes, we have missed out. Winnipeg has already shipped out their first, so we missed out on that (if youre of the mindset Simmonds was going to return a first), in theory. Toronto already sent their first (or one of them, i cant remember which), so that has sailed.

You see it as a GM getting anxious and overpaying. I see it as other GMs see us sitting with a UFA that we dont want to re-sign, and taking advantage of that situation by offering less because having him here does nothing for us for the remainder of the year. Neither viewpoint is necessarily right or wrong, we just have a philosophical difference.

Mark Stone is my guess on last first round pick being traded for. Philadelphia and Ottawa are sitting there twiddling there thumbs for someone to bite.

And Mark Stone > Simmonds easily.
 

The Burdened

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May 1, 2017
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Again, im not rejecting the notion outright. But yes, we have missed out. Winnipeg has already shipped out their first, so we missed out on that (if youre of the mindset Simmonds was going to return a first), in theory. Toronto already sent their first (or one of them, i cant remember which), so that has sailed.

You see it as a GM getting anxious and overpaying. I see it as other GMs see us sitting with a UFA that we dont want to re-sign, and taking advantage of that situation by offering less because having him here does nothing for us for the remainder of the year. Neither viewpoint is necessarily right or wrong, we just have a philosophical difference.
But that's the thing: theoretically, the only way we were ever going to get a 1st is by preying on a GM making a panic move at the end of the deadline. We weren't going to get that 1st in December, or 2 days ago. You have to prey on GM's who may get anxious. Trade deadline sometimes makes GM's do silly things.

We've missed out on nothing. I commend the GM for doing his job and not underselling his players. GG to him for trying to get the most he can.

We both know he's likely not going to get that 1st and he's most likely going to go for the same price market had set for him (2nd +), but it hasn't cost us anything by waiting.

It was never Winnipeg or bust and I've never really thought of them as a Top 3 suitor for him. Still believe it's Boston, Nashville, or Tampa. The fact that Winnipeg got Hayes and not one of those other 3 teams is good news for us.
 

SpeakingOfTheDevils

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Jan 22, 2010
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Agree. This trade deadline had to be the worst regarding first round picks given out equal to the players talent level.

Simmonds an amazing player. Likely should mandatory land a first. And Zuccarello and Dzingle couldn’t?

These GMs either don’t have one or holding on to it like Fricken gold. I wonder if they know something about this draft class that we don’t?

Supply and demand.

The top-6 winger market is saturated as hell. Not all of them are going to return what they would return in a “normal” deadline year.

Economics 101
 

Starat327

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But that's the thing: theoretically, the only way we were ever going to get a 1st is by preying on a GM making a panic move at the end of the deadline. We weren't going to get that 1st in December, or 2 days ago. You have to prey on GM's who may get anxious. Trade deadline sometimes makes GM's do silly things.

We've missed out on nothing. I commend the GM for doing his job and not underselling his players. GG to him for trying to get the most he can.

We both know he's likely not going to get that 1st and he's most likely going to go for the same price market had set for him (2nd +), but it hasn't cost us anything by waiting.

It was never Winnipeg or bust and I've never really thought of them as a Top 3 suitor for him. Still believe it's Boston, Nashville, or Tampa. The fact that Winnipeg got Hayes and not one of those other 3 teams is good news for us.

The point is, who knows what we wouldve got? I dont think he was going to get a first, but i also wouldnt imagine Paul Gaustad getting a first either. The point is, there are/were a lot of wingers available on the market, and now theres not. Theres only so much need, and when that need dries up, prices tend to drop. Boston has no grabbed Coyle and Stempniak, so their 'need' is significantly less than it was a week ago, lowering the price theyd be willing to pay.
 

Canadienna

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Jan 27, 2015
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Dew drops and rainforest
Agree. This trade deadline had to be the worst regarding first round picks given out equal to the players talent level.

Simmonds an amazing player. Likely should mandatory land a first. And Zuccarello and Dzingle couldn’t?

These GMs either don’t have one or holding on to it like Fricken gold. I wonder if they know something about this draft class that we don’t?

I think the lack of 1st rounders being dealt was predicted going into the TDL.

I would bet it has less to do with this particular draft class, and more to do with the leagues recent shift to younger players. The first round pick you give up could end up playing in the league right away, and maybe with a comparable impact (or even more) as the player you acquired.
 
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