Sidney Crosby surpassing Alexander Ovechkin in career points watch (UPD: Ovechkin ahead by 6)

[Hockey4Lyfe]

To get an assist, someone has to score a goal.

So what in the hell is the difference between 30G 50A and 50G 30A?

No matter what way you spin it, the team scored 80 goals.

And why do you trust a 50G scorer over a 50A guy? They are both producing at the same rate. A goal will be scored at the same rate for the given team.

 

[Fallschirmyager]

Nobody in their right mind would have ever thought Ovechkin would still have more points than Crosby this far into their careers. Everyone believed that Crosby would lead in points and Ovechkin would lead in goals. That's about to take place. So?

 

[Revelation]

To get an assist, someone has to score a goal.

So what in the hell is the difference between 30G 50A and 50G 30A?

No matter what way you spin it, the team scored 80 goals.

And why do you trust a 50G scorer over a 50A guy? They are both producing at the same rate. A goal will be scored at the same rate for the given team.

There are 2 assists possible per goal and an average of 1.7 assists per goal scored. 50 goals is on par with 85 assists.

Also you could be put in the NHL and pick up secondary assists handing off the puck behind the blue line on the PP but you'd never score any goals

 

[Ms Maggie]

I find the debate about the relative value of goals and assists generally more interesting than the debate about Crosby and Ovechkin specifically.

I guess my feeling is that I trust the 50G guy more than the 50A guy to produce in the future, even if he's moved to a different context. I'm an absolutely terrible hockey player, but I pick up quite a few assists: get the puck to the good players in the offensive zone and they'll get me points. It's a lot more rare for a great passer to get me goals than it is for a good goalscorer to get me assists.

Understand. Kinda academic in any event. Ignores other key components of player's game.

HNY!

 

[shtorm2005]

And why do you trust a 50G scorer over a 50A guy? They are both producing at the same rate. A goal will be scored at the same rate for the given team.

Because it's harder to score 50G. 50A guy is not covered the same way as 50G. There is huge talent difference between these two players.

 

[Ms Maggie]

there is no need to dumb down anything. at some point u have to stop projecting and realize that ao produced more in the regular season as crosby. even if sid soon eclipses ao... the majority of their prime ovi got more out of himself... in that regard the higher ppg is not significant because crosby could not converse that into outproducing ovi. raw totals mean more that projections. after more than 10 years of hockey they are about even... one has more consitensy the other has a higher points output.

Not to be pedantic but if cow A produces more gallons of milk on average than cow B, cow A is more productive. (It's right there in the words: produces/productive).

Now replace average milk production with ppg.

 

[wetcoast]

That's the key,hockey is a game about "almost" lots of goals almost happen. Points from helpers is getting credit for someone else's work.

Now let me get this right, only the goal scorers do the work on each and every goal.

Or put another way the secondary assist is always just an easy pass to another guy who might do soem work and then the guy who scores the goal does most of it?

I'm not sure what NHL games you are watching but this is often not the case.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

There are 2 assists possible per goal and an average of 1.7 assists per goal scored. 50 goals is on par with 85 assists.

Also you could be put in the NHL and pick up secondary assists handing off the puck behind the blue line on the PP but you'd never score any goals

I understand that. But to actually record an assist a goal was scored.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Because it's harder to score 50G. 50A guy is not covered the same way as 50G. There is huge talent difference between these two players.

Right. Every time I watch a Pens game I note how teams don't cover Crosby. Really, he looks so lonely.

 

[3074326]

That's the key,hockey is a game about "almost" lots of goals almost happen. Points from helpers is getting credit for someone else's work.

Hank, this is one of the worst takes I've seen you have. You've had the pleasure of watching some great players with special passing ability and this is what you're saying? All because of Sidney Crosby?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Because it's harder to score 50G. 50A guy is not covered the same way as 50G. There is huge talent difference between these two players.

I just don’t agree with that assertion. Sometimes it’s much harder to make the passes these guys do than to shoot the puck.

I don’t know how you can quantify that at the end of the day. That’s why I feel it’s just best to judge points as a whole.

 

[shtorm2005]

Right. Every time I watch a Pens game I note how teams don't cover Crosby. Really, he looks so lonely.

It's harder to score under heavy coverage than make a pass.

 

[Plural]

No, because two touches for a given team, besides the goal scorer, usually captures the most significant plays toward the scoring of a goal. Something like that would be the justification under the current system.

Why not evaluate assists play by play basis like they do in KHL? Why automatic two assists? I mean, it does strike me as bit arbitrary. Why is the NHL system better than KHL? Wouldn't the point system better reflect the offensive input of a goal if there was a possibilty to award 0-3 assists but getting an assist would require evaluation process to deem the effort worthy?

 

[GlitchMarner]

Andreychuk is 331 pts below points per game. He is not even supposed to be in the conversation with these guys.

Sid is 263pts above PPG and Ovi 127 pts.

lmao... I know Andreychuk isn't close to their level. That wasn't my point. My point is that raw career totals aren't necessarily that big a deal for players' legacies.

 

[Revelation]

I understand that. But to actually record an assist a goal was scored.

To actually record a + in the plus minus column a goal was scored as well

 

[GlitchMarner]

You can compare points when the player's play in the exact same era. I respectfully disagree with your comparison of Andreychuk here. There's lots of arguments to be made for/against both players as the better player. They play such different roles and are so close in overall points/impact/hardware/legacy that if you want to delve into trying to "prove" one is empirically better than the other: well, have at it.

But to dismiss comparative point totals in games played is wrong IMO, the fact that Crosby will likely end up with more points in less games does mean something. It is not the be-all end-all argument for Crosby being better, but it's quantifiable evidence of Crosby's impact.

Well, Ovechkin's had more points for years. A lot of people have considered Crosby to have been the best player of his generation for some time. It's not like some magic will happen when/if Crosby surpasses him in points. Either he is already better or he still won't be. A few points doesn't change anything.

 

[bobbyking]

Insecure fan detected

 

[82Ninety42011]

So the best player is the who played the most games? That would be Patrick Marleau. Funny, don't often hear his name in "the best" conversation.

Or I think this is all subjective and tired of hearing Crosby this that when he to me is clearly not head and shoulders above his peers. He's a great player that gets more credit then he deserves in my opinion. Were all entitled to one.

 

[Ms Maggie]

It's harder to score under heavy coverage than make a pass.

That's your opinion. And you're entitled to it. It may be correct. But don't confuse it with fact.

 

[Hippasus]

Why not evaluate assists play by play basis like they do in KHL? Why automatic two assists? I mean, it does strike me as bit arbitrary. Why is the NHL system better than KHL? Wouldn't the point system better reflect the offensive input of a goal if there was a possibilty to award 0-3 assists but getting an assist would require evaluation process to deem the effort worthy?

The two touches rule is more determinate and reflects the high valuation of playmakers in the culture surrounding the NHL. The evaluation process rule sounds like it could become subjective due to being ruled differently across differents places and times.

 

[mrv52]

Not to be pedantic but if cow A produces more gallons of milk on average than cow B, cow A is more productive. (It's right there in the words: produces/productive).

Now replace average milk production with ppg.

What if cow B milks himself 5 times out of 100, AND, cow A does not give milk at all on Mondays?

 

[shtorm2005]

That's your opinion. And you're entitled to it. It may be correct. But don't confuse it with fact.

Am I wrong? Of course sometimes it's not, but usually, beating player+goalie is harder than just a player.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Or I think this is all subjective and tired of hearing Crosby this that when he to me is clearly not head and shoulders above his peers. He's a great player that gets more credit then he deserves in my opinion. Were all entitled to one.

I think the whole notion of "the best" is overdone in sports. Great players are great in unique ways, across all sports.

 

[Ms Maggie]

What if cow B milks himself 5 times out of 100, AND, cow A does not give milk at all on Mondays?

If it milks HIMself you have a whole different thing going on. Get the hell off HF and get that freak an agent.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

To actually record a + in the plus minus column a goal was scored as well

I checked and we weren’t talking about +/-