Shouldn't the NHL focus more on non-traditional hockey markets?

[garnetpalmetto]

Whatsa Shinola?

It was a brand of shoe polish.

 

[tarheelhockey]

People say this, but to me at least, it comes off as rather shallow. You are against moving poor (mostly southern) markets, but would love to see more in Canada. How exactly is that supposed to work? The league has said it won't expand until the problems it has with certain franchises are fixed. Even then, if these problems were fixed, do you think the NHL would put a team in Canada? Hell no, they would use the success of those other markets to try to push the game into other American locales like Houston and Las Vegas.

Clearly I would like to see the problems with current franchises fixed. The opposite opinion, that they shouldn't be fixed in order that they can be moved, strikes me as outright selfishness. Look, I have no personal stake in whether NHL hockey is available in Miami, Phoenix or Long Island. None of those places are associated with "the south" as Americans use that term. Moving the Coyotes might even have helped keep Atlanta in place, which is much closer to home for me. But I still think that Phoenix deserves every opportunity to solve their issues and get on with laying down roots within the community. It's just the right thing to do, period, as far as I'm concerned.

And once the league is in a position to expand again, be it in 5 years or 30 years, I'd celebrate having another team back in QC or Hamilton or wherever. Because that's the right thing to do too. And I really do believe we can do the right thing for both sides without having to throw anyone under the bus -- that's where the league has a moral responsibility to put the best interests of the hockey community ahead of scratching and clawing for every nickel they can wring out of us.

 

[Rob]

This is not going to go over too well. Too many people think that Hockey belongs to Canada and Canadians only and that no one else should care/watch/love/or have hockey outside of Canada.

Who said that? Seriously, lets see some links to Canadian media articles.

Replay the NHL draft TSN asked all the players drafted by Canadian times "what's it going to be like playing in a hockey market" or simular type quetions.

The term "hockey market" is a legitimate one.

 

[Killion]

I wish there were more people up your way who got us Southern folk the way you do, my friend.

There actually are. Thousands. Kidnapped from our sleeping beds in the dead of night from Macon County to Texarcana by Yankee Blue Bellys. Spirited away to oversee their Christmas Tree Farms. Pick'n gooey' PineCones in -40 degree whiteout conditions dressed in little more than lightweight peddlepushers and donated hockey jerseys. Sans any practicable footwear save for chunks of rubber hacked from discarded tractor tires taped to our frost bitten feet. Posicle toes....

Whatsa Shinola?

2-in-1 shoe polish ABD. Bixby-Shinola Corp. Out of business. Term popularized during WW2. Wiki's your friend.....

The term "hockey market" is a legitimate one.

Of course it is. Halifax & St.John NB are "hockey markets" but I dont think anyone would seriously argue that an NHL franchise would have much of a fighting chance out there. Minor & Junior hockey absolutely. I see nothing wrong with "creating" a market, be it Phoenix or Dallas, Houston or Birmingham, from the top down with an NHL franchise, provided ownership & the league are committed to growing & developing the sport at the grass roots levels through financial & consultancy roles in building arenas', staging camps & clinics, assisting local organizations in the creation & development of amateur leagues from Tyke's to Midget's. What these places have that St.John & elsewhere dont have are huge population bases' & pre-recession plenty of wealth & potential.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Basic Difference

There actually are. Thousands. Kidnapped from our sleeping beds in the dead of night from Macon County to Texarcana by Yankee Blue Bellys. Spirited away to oversee their Christmas Tree Farms. Pick'n gooey' PineCones in -40 degree whiteout conditions dressed in little more than lightweight peddlepushers and donated hockey jerseys. Sans any practicable footwear save for chunks of rubber hacked from discarded tractor tires taped to our frost bitten feet. Posicle toes....



2-in-1 shoe polish ABD. Bixby-Shinola Corp. Out of business. Term popularized during WW2. Wiki's your friend.....



Of course it is. Halifax & St.John NB are "hockey markets" but I dont think anyone would seriously aregue that an NHL franchise would have much of a fighting chance out there. Minor & Junior hockey absolutely. I see nothing wrong with "creating" a market, be it Phoenix or Dallas, Houston or Birmingham, from the top down with an NHL franchise, provided ownership & the league are committed to growing & developing the sport at the grass roots levels through financial & consultancy roles in building arenas', staging camps & clinics, assisting local organizations in the creation & development of amateur leagues from Tyke's to Midget's. What these places have that St.John & elsewhere dont have are huge population bases' & pre-recession plenty of wealth & potential.

Basic difference is that throughout the USA arenas are sustainable without hockey while in Canada they are not.

In the USA arena rentals include various graduation exercises, high school, college and university,all the traveling music and entertainment events, the travelling and lucrative "ministries" circuit, cheerleading competitions, various athletic competitions beyond the four major sports from Arena football down to amateur wrestling or whatever fad sport surfaces for awhile, antique, hobby, collectibles, arts and crafts shows, and so forth. Hockey basically is competing for dates as part of the overall event mix.

In Canada this is not true. The traveling entertainment events are limited to corridors (Montreal/Windsor) with connecting superhighways to the USA or western pockets that may be visited without losing a performance date to travel.The "ministries" are not a factor, while the other events - grads, etc are not draws, held in school gyms, auditoriums, or small venues.

Re the Maritimes - New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton and Halifax. Getting the Irving family money and tentacles involved might be very interesting.

Pierre Karl Peladeau and Quebecor if they manage to get Quebec City and synergize within their empire might just give the Irvings ideas.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

The problem with non-traditional markets is that they don't always work. It's done alright in California and Nashville, hell even Tampa Bay and Carolina. But has been a cluster**** of epic proportions in Phoenix and Florida. There has to be a time when Bettman or the NHL just realizes that Pheonix especially (The Panthers are in a different situation) has failed miserably. Keep the teams that work in The South, but the Yotes have just got to go. They're doomed

 

[Killion]

Re the Maritimes - New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton and Halifax. Getting the Irving family money and tentacles involved might be very interesting. Pierre Karl Peladeau and Quebecor if they manage to get Quebec City and synergize within their empire might just give the Irvings ideas.

Thats a thought that crosses the mind alright. The Irvings & or the McCains, Halifax an intriguing idea for decades now. Based on my limited knowledge of the idea and replys' from "Haligonians" laugh here on these boards, there appears to be a number of issues in terms of development in that city; population , economic concerns, lack of corporate heft etc. Another interesting suggestion, scoffed at since the "Wild Bill" Hunter days & brought to the forefront again by IceEdgeHoldings pursuant to the Coyotes is Saskatoon, the fastest growing municipality in Canada.

 

[james bond]

Who said that? Seriously, lets see some links to Canadian media articles.

Rob, have you been hiding under your igloo? The sentiment of Canadians not wanting the sport to grow is everywhere. You can probably get started looking through the threads in these boards. I have met very few Canadians that think hockey outside Canadian borders is a good idea.

 

[Killion]

Rob, have you been hiding under your igloo? The sentiment of Canadians not wanting the sport to grow is everywhere. You can probably get started looking through the threads in these boards. I have met very few Canadians that think hockey outside Canadian borders is a good idea.

Ive encountered quite the opposite 007. I think if you asked anyone on the WestCoast how they'd feel about a team in Seattle or Portland, you'd get a 99.9% approval rating. If you asked them how they felt about teams like Phoenix (Az is a major destination for BC residents) they'd be split on it 50/50, and not because they thought putting a team in a desert environment was insane, more of sadness over its failure to cut it as a result of intransigent ownership. Torontonians' would be none too happy to see their world shrink to the 10 provinces; nor would Calgary, Montreal or any of the other cities with teams. There is a very loud & vocal minority in this country that are xenophobic & protectionist, seeing the NHL's move from Montreal to NYC; the appointment of an American "basketball guy" as Commish' all threatening to their misplaced & misguided ideals of cultural sovereignty & superiority when it comes to hockey, but their out there, on the fringes' of & in no way representative of the majority. Minorities always scream the loudest, and sure enough, we've got some card carrying members of that crew posting here on hf boards.

 

[mcguire4*]

Rob, have you been hiding under your igloo? The sentiment of Canadians not wanting the sport to grow is everywhere. You can probably get started looking through the threads in these boards. I have met very few Canadians that think hockey outside Canadian borders is a good idea.

that isnt quite correct.
all for growing the game, but not at the expense of established hockey markets. ( we know who im talking about, one just got back in)
why cant the "southern" teams work their way up to the NHL?
the only real way to grow the sport is from the bottom up. thats why its called GROWTH. you dont start life at 6'0 do you?....nope, you start at around 28 inches and grow up from there.
grow the game at the grassroots level, develop some sort of culture, traditions and get the folks excited about the game of hockey. even these "successful" clubs like carolina, nashville etc. will eventually crash and burn.
sorry, but its true.

 

[Killion]

why cant the "southern" teams work their way up to the NHL?
the only real way to grow the sport is from the bottom up. thats why its called GROWTH. you dont start life at 6'0 do you?....nope, you start at around 28 inches and grow up from there.

Youve' heard the expression "Go Big or Go Home"?. That'd be yer major league sports in both the USA & Canada. Major markets simply wont sit still for 2nd best. Expecting Phoenix, Atlanta, Florida, Hamilton, Toronto or Montreal to wildly support AHL, ECHL or Colonial League Hockey doesnt work. Have you not seen The Curious Case of Benjamin Button mcguire4?....

 

[mcguire4*]

great movie too!
you saying that Toronto and Montreal need to work their way up to the NHL??....judging by their teams, you may have a point.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Saskatchewan

Thats a thought that crosses the mind alright. The Irvings & or the McCains, Halifax an intriguing idea for decades now. Based on my limited knowledge of the idea and replys' from "Haligonians" laugh here on these boards, there appears to be a number of issues in terms of development in that city; population , economic concerns, lack of corporate heft etc. Another interesting suggestion, scoffed at since the "Wild Bill" Hunter days & brought to the forefront again by IceEdgeHoldings pursuant to the Coyotes is Saskatoon, the fastest growing municipality in Canada.

Saskatchewan is a definite consideration but I do not know enough about the provincial economics to comment. If there is a group like the Irvinga or the McCains that could synergize all the components and keep all the benefits local.

Any serious business in the Maritimes gets on board with the Irvings and the McCains and the money is distributed locally not exported. If the same scenario is possible in Saskatoon then by all means especially if it is a clearly identified and marketed
provincial team

 

[Killion]

great movie too!
you saying that Toronto and Montreal need to work their way up to the NHL??....judging by their teams, you may have a point.

Yep. And not even if you offered up all 500 of your V dollars accumulated here on hf boards would you be able to beg, borrow or steal a ticket to the ACC or Bell Center. Go Big or Go Home. Just Do It. Instant Gratification. From 0-60 in 00.99&1/100ths' of a second. Organic growths' just fine n' dandy if you possess infinite patience, live on Walden Pond. I want it all, and I want it now.

 

[tarheelhockey]

why cant the "southern" teams work their way up to the NHL?

For one thing, those cities have all had a long history of minor-league hockey with the exception of Florida. Dallas got its first team in 1941 and has had some form of pro hockey for most of the time since then. Nashville has consistently had pro hockey since the early 60s, with gaps between teams. The Thrashers and Hurricanes both displaced pro teams (for that matter the same was true in Columbus' expansion) and of course Atlanta had been supportive of an NHL team in the past. So it's not like these places were completely virgin territory in the first place.

To some extent I agree that it would be better if new markets could be "nurtured" into supporting the sport first and foremost, but that's not the reality of how pro sports works. The minor leagues are more coherent in 2011 than they have ever been before, and that's not saying much -- when the 1997 expansion was announced, we still had 2 AAA leagues and 3 AA leagues going head-to-head for territory as well as numerous A-level leagues cannibalizing each other. Some of that is still going on. It's not like baseball where everything is organized into a nice, clean tiered system that allows cities to "graduate" to a higher level. Up until last year you had Charlotte NC (population 1.7 million) in the ECHL and Wilkes-Barre, PA (population 550,000) in the AHL. Vegas is still in the ECHL, even though it's frequently mentioned as an NHL expansion possibility and hosts the awards show. None of this stuff is organized in a way that could really develop new markets, it's just a slapdash of whatever each league can manage to pull under its own umbrella.

And then there's an even bigger issue -- many minor league teams are fly-by night operations. They're skin-deep in their communities, especially the low-level teams. Some of the owners make the Atlanta Spirit Group look focused and professional. They exist year by year, selling enough tickets to pay their rent and survive. Expecting anything remotely like community development out of them is a stretch.

That said, it works in certain places. Houston, Charlotte and Norfolk have all developed from the "Slapshot"-esque low minors into strong AHL markets. California has had far more hockey than people realize, and is no longer even talked about as a "new market" for the most part. The concept is good, it's the logistics that screw everything up.

Bringing this back to the OP, the same is going to be true of any attempts to "colonize" non-traditional international markets. It won't be as simple as waiting for leagues to spring up organically -- that'll never happen due to lack of infrastructure. It would take a very serious and committed effort by the NHL and IIHF, and a hell of a lot of money, if anything like that was ever to be successful. In the meantime, the most they can do is try to get the word out via media channels and hope for the best.

 

[Killion]

.....a clearly identified and marketed
provincial team

I dont know what the prevailing economy's like out there, who or what companies are headquartered in the place. Like Halifax, a Moon Shot, and as for I.D. & Marketing?. Big problem. Real tongue twister. Saskakatchewon. Saskatchon. Skaskakaskewon. Supercalifragiliciousexpealladocious!... Saska.....

 

[Gnashville]

that isnt quite correct.
all for growing the game, but not at the expense of established hockey markets. ( we know who im talking about, one just got back in).

What established hockey markets with viable arenas/acceptable owership are being ignored?
Improve you situation first then get a team, It actually worked for Winnipeg.

why cant the "southern" teams work their way up to the NHL?
the only real way to grow the sport is from the bottom up. thats why its called GROWTH. you dont start life at 6'0 do you?....nope, you start at around 28 inches and grow up from there.

No one cares about the AHL. Winnipeg drew 8,404, Toronto drew 4,694, & Hamilton drew 4,257 per game are they not hockey markets? Nashville had an ECHL team, Atlanta had an AHL team prior to getting NHL franchies.


http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance&season_id=34

grow the game at the grassroots level, develop some sort of culture, traditions and get the folks excited about the game of hockey. even these "successful" clubs like carolina, nashville etc. will eventually crash and burn.
sorry, but its true.

That's what we are doing!!!!! How else are we going to build traditions without a team?? People are excited about hockey just Watch Playoff games from those cites every once and a while.

 

[Gnashville]

Who said that? Seriously, lets see some links to Canadian media articles.

How easy is that

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/setting+Sunbelt+hockey/4828961/story.html#ixzz1NIRDzwZw

The term "hockey market" is a legitimate one.

Define "hockey market" everyone has a different opinion. TSN intentionally defined only Canadian markets as "Hockey Markets"

"Higher pressure market" would have been a better term.

 

[htpwn]

Clearly I would like to see the problems with current franchises fixed. The opposite opinion, that they shouldn't be fixed in order that they can be moved, strikes me as outright selfishness. Look, I have no personal stake in whether NHL hockey is available in Miami, Phoenix or Long Island. None of those places are associated with "the south" as Americans use that term. Moving the Coyotes might even have helped keep Atlanta in place, which is much closer to home for me. But I still think that Phoenix deserves every opportunity to solve their issues and get on with laying down roots within the community. It's just the right thing to do, period, as far as I'm concerned.

And once the league is in a position to expand again, be it in 5 years or 30 years, I'd celebrate having another team back in QC or Hamilton or wherever. Because that's the right thing to do too. And I really do believe we can do the right thing for both sides without having to throw anyone under the bus -- that's where the league has a moral responsibility to put the best interests of the hockey community ahead of scratching and clawing for every nickel they can wring out of us.

I never said that they should not have an opportunity to fix their problems, however looking at the NHL landscape, it is clear that some teams have had plenty of time to fix their problems and despite that are still floundering in large yearly losses.

The NHL has clearly prioritized a national footprint in the United States. In any expansion scenario, it is very likely that American cities will be looked at first and foremost. Now, that doesn't mean that the Canadian cities have no chance at a franchise, but that if it comes down to it, the American market will probably win out.

For example, if the league were expand and it came down to Quebec City or Houston, which do you think the league will put the team in? Quebec City has a population of 700,000, is French speaking, and is in Canada. Houston has a population of 5,000,000 and is a major American market. No doubt in my mind that Houston will get the franchise, and the Canadian city will be left without.

The only way for Quebec City to get a team back is through relocation, as unfortunate as it is for the fans of the potential targeted team. Like Winnipeg, Quebec can take advantage of a desperate situation for the league and put a team where the league might not otherwise have put it.

 

[Killion]

How easy is that

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/setting+Sunbelt+hockey/4828961/story.html#ixzz1NIRDzwZw

TSN intentionally defined only Canadian markets as "Hockey Markets".... "Higher pressure market" would have been a better term.

Apparently not very easy at all, as that article does not confirm your assertion that "Canadians think hockey belongs to them" etc etc Gnashville. As you know, it was written by the same guy who co-authored the UofT Mowat Centers' study & report that ludicrously suggests Canada could support 12 teams including 2 in Vancouver & the Lower Mainland which is utter nonsense but still. The guy simply points out that the teams in trouble are (excluding Columbus) in the Sunbelt. What he either fails to understand or hasnt addressed at all is the linkage between intransigent ownership & the failings, instead, asserting incorrectly that there "just arent enough fans to fill the seats, tune in & watch to make it viable". He ignores the root trouble; places blame on the fans, lack thereof. Not a very astute observer, yet supposedly a "Big Thinker" employed by the Mowat Center under the umbrella of the University of Toronto. Not my idea of honest intellectual pursuit & perception, pretty weak really, but thats another matter altogether. In the case of Columbus, an insane lease is crippling a decent ownership group, a problem thats likely to be sorted, yet the author is just lazy & uses a broad brush to paint a lousy picture.

Rather than fixing the problems, namely finding & securing good ownership in Phoenix or wherever else, he thinks the NHL should just relo about 5 teams to Canada. That suggestion alone is just not credible, as this country effectively could & only should accommodate 2 more teams, and specifically Hamilton & QC, and I for one would rather see it done through Expansion than relo but relo looks a Hell of a lot more likely no?. Nowhere in that article do I read "its Canadas' game", it has a "right to those teams & is entitled to them". You also mentioned TSN. As a Canadian broadcaster, they cater & pander to the Canadian market. Cutesy sayings like "Bringing you Canadas' Game" etc are just chest thumping slogans that caters to their key demographic of beer drinking males aged 18-34. TSN is not a serious nor credible source for "the business of hockey" reportage. Its biased to all things Canadian hockey, unashamedly "Homers". Its known as "Toronto Sports Network" colloquially up here, as its focus is primarily on the Leafs & Toronto, much despised in places like Vancouver, Calgary etc. Its all about ratings & advertising dollars in Southern Ontario for that network, and thats their "High Pressure" reality every day of the week.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Mowat Center Report

Apparently not very easy at all, as that article does not confirm your assertion that "Canadians think hockey belongs to them" etc etc Gnashville. As you know, it was written by the same guy who co-authored the UofT Mowat Centers' study & report that ludicrously suggests Canada could support 12 teams including 2 in Vancouver & the Lower Mainland which is utter nonsense but still. The guy simply points out that the teams in trouble are (excluding Columbus) in the Sunbelt. What he either fails to understand or hasnt addressed at all is the linkage between intransigent ownership & the failings, instead, asserting incorrectly that there "just arent enough fans to fill the seats, tune in & watch to make it viable". He ignores the root trouble; places blame on the fans, lack thereof. Not a very astute observer, yet supposedly a "Big Thinker" employed by the Mowat Center under the umbrella of the University of Toronto. Not my idea of honest intellectual pursuit & perception, pretty weak really, but thats another matter altogether. In the case of Columbus, an insane lease is crippling a decent ownership group, a problem thats likely to be sorted, yet the author is just lazy & uses a broad brush to paint a lousy picture.

Rather than fixing the problems, namely finding & securing good ownership in Phoenix or wherever else, he thinks the NHL should just relo about 5 teams to Canada. That suggestion alone is just not credible, as this country effectively could & only should accommodate 2 more teams, and specifically Hamilton & QC, and I for one would rather see it done through Expansion than relo but relo looks a Hell of a lot more likely no?. Nowhere in that article do I read "its Canadas' game", it has a "right to those teams & is entitled to them". You also mentioned TSN. As a Canadian broadcaster, they cater & pander to the Canadian market. Cutesy sayings like "Bringing you Canadas' Game" etc are just chest thumping slogans that caters to their key demographic of beer drinking males aged 18-34. TSN is not a serious nor credible source for "the business of hockey" reportage. Its biased to all things Canadian hockey, unashamedly "Homers". Its known as "Toronto Sports Network" colloquially up here, as its focus is primarily on the Leafs & Toronto, much despised in places like Vancouver, Calgary etc. Its all about ratings & advertising dollars in Southern Ontario for that network, and thats their "High Pressure" reality every day of the week.

The Mowat Center Report referenced is far from an excellent document. likewise your comments re TSN are very accurate. Regardless, there are a few points raised that are worth looking at from a more realistic perspective.

Presently Canada has 7 NHL teams out of 30, a second team in the GTA/Southern Ontario market plus Quebec City are possible then there are a two stretch possibilities - Maritimes and another western option.

The key element in Canada or anywhere in the USA is how the NHL team positions itself within the arena where it plays its home games.If the team is part of ownership and the main cornerstone tenant then the road to success is much easier. If the team is on the short list of to be replaced tenants then success is very problematic. Winnipeg and Quebec City when the franchises left for the USA were still core tenants in their arenas but the economics locally and the Canadian dollar were obstacles that could not be overxcome. This is supported by the reality that George Gillette was able to buy the Canadiens at a time when the Canadian and provincial economy was in the dumpster and no one was willing to step up. When he sold the team there were at three other groups - Bronfman, Savard, Peladeau,with various Quebec Solidarity and investment funds in the background, that were serious competitors to the eventual buyers. This money has not departed from the Canadian market and it is willing to bide its time.

We are not looking at Jim Balsille/RIM type people or groups that were running all over the USA trying to snag a franchise. Serious monet, respectful of the process.

 

[GreenHornet]

Atlanta had an AHL team prior to getting NHL franchies.

Point of info. The Atlanta Knights were actually in the IHL, not the AHL.

They were up among the league leaders in attendance for most of their stay (even outdrew the Hawks, who were going through a bad stretch, if memory serves), and won the 1994 Turner Cup. I'll never forget that night. The Omni was full and louder than I'd ever heard it.

 

[Gnashville]

Apparently not very easy at all, as that article does not confirm your assertion that "Canadians think hockey belongs to them" etc etc Gnashville. As you know, it was written by the same guy who co-authored the UofT Mowat Centers' study & report that ludicrously suggests Canada could support 12 teams including 2 in Vancouver & the Lower Mainland which is utter nonsense but still. The guy simply points out that the teams in trouble are (excluding Columbus) in the Sunbelt. What he either fails to understand or hasnt addressed at all is the linkage between intransigent ownership & the failings, instead, asserting incorrectly that there "just arent enough fans to fill the seats, tune in & watch to make it viable". He ignores the root trouble; places blame on the fans, lack thereof. Not a very astute observer, yet supposedly a "Big Thinker" employed by the Mowat Center under the umbrella of the University of Toronto. Not my idea of honest intellectual pursuit & perception, pretty weak really, but thats another matter altogether. In the case of Columbus, an insane lease is crippling a decent ownership group, a problem thats likely to be sorted, yet the author is just lazy & uses a broad brush to paint a lousy picture.

Rather than fixing the problems, namely finding & securing good ownership in Phoenix or wherever else, he thinks the NHL should just relo about 5 teams to Canada. That suggestion alone is just not credible, as this country effectively could & only should accommodate 2 more teams, and specifically Hamilton & QC, and I for one would rather see it done through Expansion than relo but relo looks a Hell of a lot more likely no?. Nowhere in that article do I read "its Canadas' game", it has a "right to those teams & is entitled to them". You also mentioned TSN. As a Canadian broadcaster, they cater & pander to the Canadian market. Cutesy sayings like "Bringing you Canadas' Game" etc are just chest thumping slogans that caters to their key demographic of beer drinking males aged 18-34. TSN is not a serious nor credible source for "the business of hockey" reportage. Its biased to all things Canadian hockey, unashamedly "Homers". Its known as "Toronto Sports Network" colloquially up here, as its focus is primarily on the Leafs & Toronto, much despised in places like Vancouver, Calgary etc. Its all about ratings & advertising dollars in Southern Ontario for that network, and thats their "High Pressure" reality every day of the week.

I will revise my statement. There is a certain very vocal minority of hockey fans that think they have the god given right to dictate: where teams are located, who is a real fan, and believes that Gary Bettman is the devil because he does not do everything they want. They do not want anyone to like hockey if they do not approve of them. Most of them happen to be from Canada.

Their are elements of their opinion in the media, which also caters to their belief system. Also media outlets tend to make statements about certain markets as being "good" and others as "bad". They also believe theirs is the only correct point of view and any thing that undermines the unaccepted markets is good and Nobel.

Case in Point: Balsille's lawyer interfering with the Pred's lease agreement before he even attempted to purchase the team, and then taking season tickets deposits when he didn't own the team, and the lease here was valid. He flat out lied to Leipold, Bettman, The BOG, The fans in Nashville (which do exist) and is treated as a hero for doing so.

Instead of accepting new fans and teams they shun and insult them. They place impossible demands on their hated markets and fans and totally ignore it when their beloved market don't meet the same demands. They complain about anything and everything. When a hated team does sell-out then the team is either lying, or giving away tickets because it's out of their realm of possibilities that there could actually be fans in those locations that love their team. They complain that X city deserves a team when they don't even have a viable arena or owner. It's beyond frustrating for me to be considered inferior or not a "real" fan, when I love the game as much as anyone and watch and/or talk about it practically every day and work with several people who do the same thing.

Please understand I have found all Canadians I have met to be polite, hard working, kind, and most love hockey and seem somewhat surprised and accepting of my love for the sport. I do not have anything against Canadians at all but this selfish attitude from a small percentage is extremely irritating. Most of that ilk have probably never been to the cities that they think are undeserving and will continue to judge from a distance.

 

[Rob]

How easy is that

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/setting+Sunbelt+hockey/4828961/story.html#ixzz1NIRDzwZw

Please see your original quote:

Too many people think that Hockey belongs to Canada and Canadians only and that no one else should care/watch/love/or have hockey outside of Canada.

Where does it say that in the article you posted?

Edit: I now see you have revised your original statement.

 

[dronald]

They complain that X city deserves a team when they don't even have a viable arena or owner. It's beyond frustrating for me to be considered inferior or not a "real" fan, when I love the game as much as anyone and watch and/or talk about it practically every day and work with several people who do the same thing.

I just wanted to touch on this... I don't understand why it bothers you that someone from Hamilton would want a team, or QC even though there is no owner/arena, unless it is at the expense of another team. To be honest I agree with your whole post, and I wish the majority of people in the south wouldn't look at Hockey as a complete joke and would realize how exciting it is. It's hard when my cousins and all their friends (From Portland) make fun of Hockey and say it's not a real sport.

That being said, if it's not at the expense of another team then QC and Hamilton do both deserve teams and I don't see why this should bother anyone. We just want people in Phoenix to like Hockey, but if they dont, then we want a team in places where people will for sure.