Should Winnipeg, and Quebec City be back in the NHL?

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tiredman

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Nov 10, 2003
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You basically just used 11 bullet points to say "Because I liked it when they were around.". You need a bullet point stating a date for a new arena being built and another bullet listing the amount of corporate support that new arena has before the other eleven matter.

Quebec without an arena is not ready to bring back an nhl team. When they will have a new arena, they will be. I was just stating why Quebec deserves another team.

And for the corporate support, it would never have been a problem. Even Aubut recently said that he would not have problems to get them. A company that is corporate support for the habs would be the same for a team in quebec city. You don't support both, say bye bye to your company in quebec. It would be a suicide for the company that would do that since quebec vs montreal is still a big rivalry.
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
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Nashville, TN
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Quebec without an arena is not ready to bring back an nhl team. When they will have a new arena, they will be. I was just stating why Quebec deserves another team.

If I were dating Mandy Moore, I'd have a really hot girlfriend.

But as my mother is fond of saying,

"If 'ifs and buts' were candy and nuts, the world would be a sweeter place"
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
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No, the NHL has no business being in "Non-traditional" cities like St. Louis and Los Angeles. Geez, you don't get it, do it?
You do realize that the NHL has been in those "Non-traditional" cities a hell of a lot longer than the NHL ever was in Winnipeg or Quebec (even including their WHA years).

Anyone who tries to lump in "Original 12" cities (with 40 years of NHL history) with teams that expanded/moved to new markets in the past decade or so has zero credibility - other than arguing over arbitrary (and pointless) distictions.

You don't get it, do you.

Hint - tradition doesn't just come from annual snowfall.
 

OLYMPIA STADIUM

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Apr 20, 2007
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Quebec without an arena is not ready to bring back an nhl team. When they will have a new arena, they will be. I was just stating why Quebec deserves another team.

And for the corporate support, it would never have been a problem. Even Aubut recently said that he would not have problems to get them. A company that is corporate support for the habs would be the same for a team in quebec city. You don't support both, say bye bye to your company in quebec. It would be a suicide for the company that would do that since quebec vs montreal is still a big rivalry.

There was nothing wrong with the quebec colisee and there was nothing wrong with the old winnipeg arena.these owners nowadays just want arenas with all of these sky boxes.its all about money these days.give me the old days anytime.
 

tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
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There was nothing wrong with the quebec colisee and there was nothing wrong with the old winnipeg arena.these owners nowadays just want arenas with all of these sky boxes.its all about money these days.give me the old days anytime.

Well the colisee is not really big. Only around 15k seats. It would be the smallest arena in the league and probably the oldest arena too. There are also not enough coorparate boxes. Only 1 restaurant. The seats sucks. They are really hard and really not confortable. The score board was crap too.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
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Maroons Rd.
Quebec without an arena is not ready to bring back an nhl team. When they will have a new arena, they will be. I was just stating why Quebec deserves another team.

And for the corporate support, it would never have been a problem. Even Aubut recently said that he would not have problems to get them. A company that is corporate support for the habs would be the same for a team in quebec city. You don't support both, say bye bye to your company in quebec. It would be a suicide for the company that would do that since quebec vs montreal is still a big rivalry.

That's a very good point actually. People seem to assume cities like Quebec City and Winnipeg would have to rely on local corporate support only. That's not really the case for things like arena naming rights, board/ice signage, etc. Since those teams will play on some national TV broadcasts where 1 or 2 million or even more people are watching during playoff games, you'd think those rights would be worth a lot more than for certain teams in more hockey challenged areas.

GHOST
 

LeafErikson

Schwifty 24/7
Jun 23, 2004
27,347
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Victoria B.C.
You do realize that the NHL has been in those "Non-traditional" cities a hell of a lot longer than the NHL ever was in Winnipeg or Quebec (even including their WHA years).

Anyone who tries to lump in "Original 12" cities (with 40 years of NHL history) with teams that expanded/moved to new markets in the past decade or so has zero credibility - other than arguing over arbitrary (and pointless) distictions.

You don't get it, do you.

Hint - tradition doesn't just come from annual snowfall.

Tradition should have nothing to do with it really, not at the money level anyway. If people who were writing the cheques, were thinking with their hearts, and not their brains, NHL teams would go bankrupt pretty quick.

However, there is something to be said about these cities, and viability. Maybe the NHL doesn't belong there just yet, but I don't think it's right to rule it out totally for the future.

I think the likelyhood of another team in Canada will happen in Ontario again, before anywhere else.
 

Mr BLUEandWHITE

Registered User
Nov 14, 2005
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Toronto
I have stated many times why I think the NHL will not go back to Canada and here are the 2 main reasons.

Potential - The potential is far greater south of the border, the NHL does not recognize the fans they have, they only see the fans they might be able to have.

American ownership vs. Canadian ownership - Currently it is 24-6, in favor of the Americans. Obviously the Canadian teams would want more teams in Canada, but not the American teams. For Example, what is more appealing to an American owner????

I am not saying anything bad about any teams BTW just giving an example.

Winnipeg vs. Dallas
Phoenix vs. Dallas

and the same goes for Canadian teams....

Winnipeg vs. Calgary
Phoenix vs. Calgary

The American owners see no money when Canadian teams come to visit their rinks. The Canadians are out numbered and have no chance in hell.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
I think the likelyhood of another team in Canada will happen in Ontario again, before anywhere else.

I'm not sure there is another viable location in Ontario besides the two places that already have teams.

I don't buy the Kitchener-Waterloo stuff one bit.

IMO, if Canada ever gets another team, it will be in Winnipeg or Quebec.
 

tiredman

Registered User
Nov 10, 2003
5,049
75
I have stated many times why I think the NHL will not go back to Canada and here are the 2 main reasons.

Potential - The potential is far greater south of the border, the NHL does not recognize the fans they have, they only see the fans they might be able to have.

American ownership vs. Canadian ownership - Currently it is 24-6, in favor of the Americans. Obviously the Canadian teams would want more teams in Canada, but not the American teams. For Example, what is more appealing to an American owner????

I am not saying anything bad about any teams BTW just giving an example.

Winnipeg vs. Dallas
Phoenix vs. Dallas

and the same goes for Canadian teams....

Winnipeg vs. Calgary
Phoenix vs. Calgary

The American owners see no money when Canadian teams come to visit their rinks. The Canadians are out numbered and have no chance in hell.

Well, Ottawa got their team in the 90s. Were the owners voting at this time ? If so, why would they have accepted it ? I mean, it's not like they like they love to play against a team like Ottawa.
 

BigMac1212

I feel...alone.
Jun 12, 2003
5,774
387
Sun Devil Country
You do realize that the NHL has been in those "Non-traditional" cities a hell of a lot longer than the NHL ever was in Winnipeg or Quebec (even including their WHA years).

Anyone who tries to lump in "Original 12" cities (with 40 years of NHL history) with teams that expanded/moved to new markets in the past decade or so has zero credibility - other than arguing over arbitrary (and pointless) distictions.

You don't get it, do you.

Hint - tradition doesn't just come from annual snowfall.

Pot calling the kettle black. Save the "You don't get it, do you" comments for yourself. It's obvious that you're in the "Phoenix doesn't deserve a team, but LA does" double standard. You're not being consistent. If being in the south means your not a hockey town, LA and Phoenix are in the same boat.
 

OLYMPIA STADIUM

Registered User
Apr 20, 2007
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groups.yahoo.com
Pot calling the kettle black. Save the "You don't get it, do you" comments for yourself. It's obvious that you're in the "Phoenix doesn't deserve a team, but LA does" double standard. You're not being consistent. If being in the south means your not a hockey town, LA and Phoenix are in the same boat.

Face the fact there are alot of hockey fans that dont think that hockey should be in pheonix.they should be back in winnipeg were they belong. the kings do belong in los angeles.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
I have stated many times why I think the NHL will not go back to Canada and here are the 2 main reasons.

Potential - The potential is far greater south of the border, the NHL does not recognize the fans they have, they only see the fans they might be able to have.

American ownership vs. Canadian ownership - Currently it is 24-6, in favor of the Americans. Obviously the Canadian teams would want more teams in Canada, but not the American teams. For Example, what is more appealing to an American owner????

I am not saying anything bad about any teams BTW just giving an example.

Winnipeg vs. Dallas
Phoenix vs. Dallas

and the same goes for Canadian teams....

Winnipeg vs. Calgary
Phoenix vs. Calgary

The American owners see no money when Canadian teams come to visit their rinks. The Canadians are out numbered and have no chance in hell.


What a quaint and rather ill-informed notion.
 

BigMac1212

I feel...alone.
Jun 12, 2003
5,774
387
Sun Devil Country
Face the fact there are alot of hockey fans that dont think that hockey should be in pheonix.they should be back in winnipeg were they belong. the kings do belong in los angeles.

That's a double standard. If the Kings belong in LA, the Coyotes belong in Phoenix. I have every right to call you guys hypocrites. LA and Phoenix are nearly on the same latitude, yet only LA, in your demented thinking, deserves a NHL franchise. Bull****! That's the most blatent hypocrasy I've ever seen.

Mods, I'm about to loose it. Please, for my sake, lock this tread up.

(It's these treads that make me wish everybody lived in a world where hockey doesn't exist. Having a NHL franchise is a priveledge, not a right. I would give it up if these psuedo-"fans" won't give me faulty grief. )
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
That's a double standard. If the Kings belong in LA, the Coyotes belong in Phoenix. I have every right to call you guys hypocrites. LA and Phoenix are nearly on the same latitude, yet only LA, in your demented thinking, deserves a NHL franchise. Bull****! That's the most blatent hypocrasy I've ever seen.

Mods, I'm about to loose it. Please, for my sake, lock this tread up.

(It's these treads that make me wish everybody lived in a world where hockey doesn't exist. Having a NHL franchise is a priveledge, not a right. I would give it up if these psuedo-"fans" won't give me faulty grief. )

Dude, just avoid the thread.

If you want me to ban you from the thread I will, but why not just ignore it?

I'm a Leafs fan. If I went after every attack my franchise felt on this board I would never be able to sign off. Some things you just have to grit your teeth and ignore.
 

OLYMPIA STADIUM

Registered User
Apr 20, 2007
368
8
DETROIT MICHIGAN
groups.yahoo.com
That's a double standard. If the Kings belong in LA, the Coyotes belong in Phoenix. I have every right to call you guys hypocrites. LA and Phoenix are nearly on the same latitude, yet only LA, in your demented thinking, deserves a NHL franchise. Bull****! That's the most blatent hypocrasy I've ever seen.

Mods, I'm about to loose it. Please, for my sake, lock this tread up.

(It's these treads that make me wish everybody lived in a world where hockey doesn't exist. Having a NHL franchise is a priveledge, not a right. I would give it up if these psuedo-"fans" won't give me faulty grief. )

Hey i could care less what you think of me or call me but in my opinion like many other hockey fans the NHL needs to go back to winnipeg and quebec.and i do say keep the kings in los angeles.
 

Mr BLUEandWHITE

Registered User
Nov 14, 2005
3,241
0
Toronto
What a quaint and rather ill-informed notion.

O no, you dont think that Montreal wants Quebec back or Toronto would like Winnipeg back. All of those Leafs fans in Winnipeg are not purchasing products because they never see the leafs in person and they dont have a team themselves. I think that statement is very accurate. Also obviously Toronto does not want another team in Toronto or anything like that, but if it were in Winnipeg or Quebec City they would be all for it.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
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Maroons Rd.
I think the likelyhood of another team in Canada will happen in Ontario again, before anywhere else.

I don't really trust what Bettman says. But for what it's worth he stated last week, that if the NHL had the opportunity to put a team in the Canadian market again, he'd like to look at Winnipeg first.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/20070518_Re_birth_of_the_Winnipeg_Jets_

Now, and this is not directed at you LeafErikson, why would Bettman make such a statement last week if there is ZERO chance Winnipeg would ever be considered to return to the NHL?

GHOST
 
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Hartford HockeyFan

Registered User
Apr 14, 2006
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0
I believe that Quebec and Winnipeg never should have lost their teams. I would fully support putting teams back in each city. With the NHL the way it is today, I think both teams could be financially stable and make it in the NHL again.

BRING BACK QUEBEC AND WINNIPEG :yo:
 

BigMac1212

I feel...alone.
Jun 12, 2003
5,774
387
Sun Devil Country
I don't really trust what Bettman says. But for what it's worth he stated last week, that if the NHL considers the Canadian market again, Winnipeg would be the number 1 place they'd look.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/20070518_Re_birth_of_the_Winnipeg_Jets_

Now, and this is not directed at you LeafErikson, why would Bettman make such a statement last week if there is ZERO chance Winnipeg would ever be considered to return to the NHL?

GHOST

To make sure the kool-ade keeps flowing in Winnipeg.

(I'm a AZ Cards fans, and anti-fans accused us of drinking koolade. {And I know what "Koolade" means.})
 

soundtigersfan

Registered User
Feb 28, 2007
271
9
CT
I'm not too familiar with the situation in Winnipeg, but I know that Quebec and Hartford lost their teams because their owners planned on moving them all along. Quebec lost their team because of a lack of a new arena, and while Colorado deserves a team, it doesn't mean that Quebec City doesn't deserve one, as well. Many fans have a lot of misconceptions when it comes to these teams moving. I happen to have lived through the Whalers era, and while I'm a bit biased since they are the team I grew up with, I've done some research and can possibly explain why it is that they in particular left.

The situation in Hartford is simple: Peter Karmanos bought the team with every intention of moving them. He originally wanted to move the team to Detroit as a second team there, but he settled on placing an OHL team there instead (ironically named the Plymouth Whalers). He had the opportunity to purchase the Tampa Bay Lightning expansion franchise but opted for Hartford since it was cheaper. He tried to move them to an abandoned airplane hanger in Columbus but the city told him to take a hike, so he saw that an arena was being built in Raleigh and took a gamble. The city offered him an arena deal at the last minute, but he turned it down, proving that he was intent on moving the team. We had over 10,000 season ticket holders the last season, which is impressive for a team that was only above .500 3 times in 18 NHL years and had missed the playoffs for six consecutive years. The fan support would have been immense if we could compete, but smaller markets didn't stand a chance in the pre-salary cap era. I understand that Carolina finally got fan support after winning the Stanley Cup, but don't you think that the same thing would have happened in Hartford? We only won one playoff series ever and they made it to the finals twice before hockey really caught on down there. I'm not saying that the Hurricanes should be moved, but I don't see why people knock the markets like Hartford and Winnipeg when we never got the chance to be that good and really turn things around. The Green Bay Packers almost went bankrupt once, but that doesn't mean that Wisconsin is a bad football market. Sometimes it takes a winning product to turn things around, and we never had the chance to compete and turn it around. I doubt that we'll ever get that chance again because of Bettman's emphasis on spreading markets out to get a better TV deal, but that hasn't exactly worked out either. There are studies being done in Hartford right now to see whether we should build an 18,000+ seat arena to replace the Hartford Civic Center within the next few years, and if that happens I think we should be given another shot. I mean, if all Kansas City had to do was build a new arena, why not us? We also have a potential owner who made a highly competitive bid on the Pittsburgh Penguins last year in Larry Gottesdiener who owns $500 million of Hartford real estate. If Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hartford can build new arenas up to NHL standards and find decent ownership groups I don't see why we shouldn't get the same kind of support that Kansas City got from many of the fans on these boards. I understand that this isn't an overnight process and that we have to earn our way back in, but I don't understand why some people would immediately count us out, especially since the economics of the NHL have changed significantly from a decade ago.
 

OLYMPIA STADIUM

Registered User
Apr 20, 2007
368
8
DETROIT MICHIGAN
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I'm not too familiar with the situation in Winnipeg, but I know that Quebec and Hartford lost their teams because their owners planned on moving them all along. Quebec lost their team because of a lack of a new arena, and while Colorado deserves a team, it doesn't mean that Quebec City doesn't deserve one, as well. Many fans have a lot of misconceptions when it comes to these teams moving. I happen to have lived through the Whalers era, and while I'm a bit biased since they are the team I grew up with, I've done some research and can possibly explain why it is that they in particular left.

The situation in Hartford is simple: Peter Karmanos bought the team with every intention of moving them. He originally wanted to move the team to Detroit as a second team there, but he settled on placing an OHL team there instead (ironically named the Plymouth Whalers). He had the opportunity to purchase the Tampa Bay Lightning expansion franchise but opted for Hartford since it was cheaper. He tried to move them to an abandoned airplane hanger in Columbus but the city told him to take a hike, so he saw that an arena was being built in Raleigh and took a gamble. The city offered him an arena deal at the last minute, but he turned it down, proving that he was intent on moving the team. We had over 10,000 season ticket holders the last season, which is impressive for a team that was only above .500 3 times in 18 NHL years and had missed the playoffs for six consecutive years. The fan support would have been immense if we could compete, but smaller markets didn't stand a chance in the pre-salary cap era. I understand that Carolina finally got fan support after winning the Stanley Cup, but don't you think that the same thing would have happened in Hartford? We only won one playoff series ever and they made it to the finals twice before hockey really caught on down there. I'm not saying that the Hurricanes should be moved, but I don't see why people knock the markets like Hartford and Winnipeg when we never got the chance to be that good and really turn things around. The Green Bay Packers almost went bankrupt once, but that doesn't mean that Wisconsin is a bad football market. Sometimes it takes a winning product to turn things around, and we never had the chance to compete and turn it around. I doubt that we'll ever get that chance again because of Bettman's emphasis on spreading markets out to get a better TV deal, but that hasn't exactly worked out either. There are studies being done in Hartford right now to see whether we should build an 18,000+ seat arena to replace the Hartford Civic Center within the next few years, and if that happens I think we should be given another shot. I mean, if all Kansas City had to do was build a new arena, why not us? We also have a potential owner who made a highly competitive bid on the Pittsburgh Penguins last year in Larry Gottesdiener who owns $500 million of Hartford real estate. If Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hartford can build new arenas up to NHL standards and find decent ownership groups I don't see why we shouldn't get the same kind of support that Kansas City got from many of the fans on these boards. I understand that this isn't an overnight process and that we have to earn our way back in, but I don't understand why some people would immediately count us out, especially since the economics of the NHL have changed significantly from a decade ago.

Hey lets hope that down the road that the whalers come back to hartford along with winnipeg and quebec to the NHL.
 

MAROONSRoad

f/k/a Ghost
Feb 24, 2007
4,067
0
Maroons Rd.
To make sure the kool-ade keeps flowing in Winnipeg.

(I'm a AZ Cards fans, and anti-fans accused us of drinking koolade. {And I know what "Koolade" means.})

I've been to games in Winnipeg and to games in Phoenix. There's just no comparison in the fan support. Winnipeg never lost 30 million USD in a single year, either. You've got your team for now so enjoy it.

Why would Bettman want to sell Koolaid to the people of Winnipeg and what basis do you have for being skeptical that Winnipeg could support a team and on the other hand believing Phoenix is a great market despite reported losses of 100s of millions in a single decade?

GHOST
 
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Mr BLUEandWHITE

Registered User
Nov 14, 2005
3,241
0
Toronto
Well, Ottawa got their team in the 90s. Were the owners voting at this time ? If so, why would they have accepted it ? I mean, it's not like they like they love to play against a team like Ottawa.

The NHL owners were simply too greedy. The fact is Ottawa at the time did not deserve a team. They did not have an adequate arena until 1996. But they had the 50 million the owners wanted. Also the same year Tampa gave the owners 50 million, that 100 million in the owners pockets, and they didn't even get their arena up and running until 4 years after.

Both cities didn't have arena's all they had was money and the green monster blinded the greedy owner, and that is why Ottawa got their team.
 

BigMac1212

I feel...alone.
Jun 12, 2003
5,774
387
Sun Devil Country
I've been to games in Winnipeg and to games in Phoenix. There's just no comparison in the fan support. Winnipeg never lost 30 million USD in a single year, either. You've got your team for now so enjoy it.

Why would Bettman want to sell Koolaid to the people of Winnipeg and what basis do you have for being skeptical that Winnipeg could supporting a team and on the other hand believing Phoenix is a great market despite reported losses of 100s of millions in a single decade?

GHOST

If that's the way it is, we all should be living in an universe where hockey NEVER EXISTS! I hate the way these "fans" treat Phoenix. If the only way I can get relief from their blatent faulty thinking is to have hockey cease from being a sport, so be it. I, and all southern NHL fans, don't deserve this disrespect.
 
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