Should Winnipeg, and Quebec City be back in the NHL?

[Levizk]

The real question is if Canada represents 33% of the revenues the NHL pulls in with 6 teams, will placing teams in Winnipeg and Quebec city significantly improve that number? Message board posters can pull the same old "We Canadians like hockey more than Americans so give us their teams and we'll reward the league.", but the league is still going to go on the fact that 300 million people can spend more than 30 million people if the markets are developed properly. We also have no data as to how many people living in places like Quebec City are already spending their money on the Habs and other teams.

Should the league move failing US franchises back to Winnipeg and Quebec City if those areas spend money to build new arenas, and develop corporate contracts? I believe the owners are in the business of making money, so if such an opportunity were realistic then I believe it would already be in motion. Kansas City came onto the scene by building a new building and securing corporate contracts, and while that guarantees them nothing that's still the process both Quebec City and Winnipeg have to compete with if they want a team.

 

[nomorekids]

but then what would people whine about on messageboards?

I enjoy imagining Gary Bettman, dressed up as the hamburglar, stealing entire hockey rinks, a la "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" from honest, yeoman, blue-collar Canadians named Gord and Darryl and planting them back in steamy, humid climates where Canadian flags are regularly burned at NASCAR events.

From some of the posts around here, you'd almost think people believe that.

 

[LeafErikson]

The real question is if Canada represents 33% of the revenues the NHL pulls in with 6 teams, will placing teams in Winnipeg and Quebec city significantly improve that number? Message board posters can pull the same old "We Canadians like hockey more than Americans so give us their teams and we'll reward the league.", but the league is still going to go on the fact that 300 million people can spend more than 30 million people if the markets are developed properly. We also have no data as to how many people living in places like Quebec City are already spending their money on the Habs and other teams.

Should the league move failing US franchises back to Winnipeg and Quebec City if those areas spend money to build new arenas, and develop corporate contracts? I believe the owners are in the business of making money, so if such an opportunity were realistic then I believe it would already be in motion. Kansas City came onto the scene by building a new building and securing corporate contracts, and while that guarantees them nothing that's still the process both Quebec City and Winnipeg have to compete with if they want a team.

Good post, and I agree. I'm not coming in here thinking these cities deserve a team, without the proper accountability that other cities have provided. But my point is, the 33% number is correct, and the fact is, the population of the province of Quebec is over 9 million, well above the population of Alberta, which supports two teams. Seems logical to me, that alone is good enough reason to believe the NHL has a place in Quebec City.
Winnipeg has an Arena, that has proven it can sell out for major hockey events. It may only seat 16 thousand, but like I mentioned, it would look better to have a full 16 thousand seat arena, than a half full 18 thousand seat arena.
I'm not pinpointing one team in particular from the States that I think should be move, although I can think of a couple good candidates. But I do believe the NHL is, and should be thinking about relocation of franchises back into Canada. But I also believe that there are some US markets that should be considered aswell, such as Seattle, Oregon, and Las Vegas.
Canada is a great market for hockey, and I believe there's room for three more teams in that market.

Perhaps because it is about the BUSINESS of hockey????????

Yes, but it's not just about the business, it's about the league, and the fan support. I just felt as though this was an attempt to draw attention away from the subject. I apologize for the over reacting.

I don't want this subject to go the wrong way, and get all personal. I want this to be a civilized discussion about the game, and it's viability in the markets I suggested the NHL return to. Sorry if I somehow offended anyone.

 

[Wetcoaster]

but then what would people whine about on messageboards?

I enjoy imagining Gary Bettman, dressed up as the hamburglar, stealing entire hockey rinks, a la "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" from honest, yeoman, blue-collar Canadians named Gord and Darryl and planting them back in steamy, humid climates where Canadian flags are regularly burned at NASCAR events.

From some of the posts around here, you'd almost think people believe that.

You mean Bettman does not do that??????????

Back when the NHL hired Gary Bettman away from the NBA, Orlando Magic GM Pat Williams wondered how Bettman would fare as the head of the hockey league.

"I gave Gary a hockey puck once, and he spent the rest of the day trying to open it," Williams is quoted as saying.
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/11-30cba.htm

 

[Wetcoaster]

Yes, but it's not just about the business, it's about the league, and the fan support. I just felt as though this was an attempt to draw attention away from the subject. I apologize for the over reacting.

I don't want this subject to go the wrong way, and get all personal. I want this to be a civilized discussion about the game, and it's viability in the markets I suggested the NHL return to. Sorry if I somehow offended anyone.

Talking about putting NHL teams in other cities is about the BUSINESS of the NHL. It has to do with finances. That is why the NHL demands detailed financial plans and projections before a team is awarded to another city.

It certainly is not about the NHL per se since there are by definition no teams in those locations.

Check out how the forums are described:

National Hockey League Talk
Discuss NHL players, teams, and games.

The Business of Hockey
Financial aspects of hockey.

Seems pretty clear. You were the one kvetching about your thread being moved.

 

[LeafErikson]

You mean Bettman does not do that??????????

Back when the NHL hired Gary Bettman away from the NBA, Orlando Magic GM Pat Williams wondered how Bettman would fare as the head of the hockey league.

"I gave Gary a hockey puck once, and he spent the rest of the day trying to open it," Williams is quoted as saying.
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/11-30cba.htm

Gary Bettman is a businessman, plain and simple. He doesn't care about the inner parts of a sport, the history, etc. If there's a dollar to be made, he'll exploit it. So if there's a dollar to be made in Canada, where it can't be made in the US, he'll go for it.
I'm not saying Bettman has no human factor to his life, I'm sure he's a nice man. But when it comes to the league he's in charge of, I don't think he takes much consideration into the happiness of fans, unless that happiness has the potential to be a success in the marketable scheme of things.

 

[LeafErikson]

Talking about putting NHL teams in other cities is about the BUSINESS of the NHL. It has to do with finances. That is why the NHL demands detailed financial plans and projections before a team is awarded to another city.

It certainly is not about the NHL per se since there are by definition no teams in those locations.

Check out how the forums are described:

National Hockey League Talk
Discuss NHL players, teams, and games.

The Business of Hockey
Financial aspects of hockey.

Seems pretty clear. You were the one kvetching about your thread being moved.

And you just quoted me saying I was sorry for overreacting! I understand I was wrong, and I explained why I believed the mods were wrong for moving it. Done deal!

 

[Wetcoaster]

Gary Bettman is a businessman, plain and simple. He doesn't care about the inner parts of a sport, the history, etc. If there's a dollar to be made, he'll exploit it. So if there's a dollar to be made in Canada, where it can't be made in the US, he'll go for it.
I'm not saying Bettman has no human factor to his life, I'm sure he's a nice man. But when it comes to the league he's in charge of, I don't think he takes much consideration into the happiness of fans, unless that happiness has the potential to be a success in the marketable scheme of things.

He was hired by the owners to make them money - he has fulfilled that mandate. And continues to do so as revenues continue to grow.

 

[MoMiester]

Yes, but if adequate Arenas were built, and good ownership in place, should they go back?

And the Winnipeg arena is adequate. The thinking being it's better to have a full 16 thousand seat arena, then a half empty 18 thousand seater.

MTSC is not 16K. Full cap is 15,003.

 

[LeafErikson]

MTSC is not 16K. Full cap is 15,003.

Ok, my mistake. Maybe I was thinking of something to do with expanding it to fit 16 k, but I've heard that number thrown around, in regards to that arena. Regardless, it's a nice building. I don't see anything wrong with a team that only supports a slightly smaller crowd. Like I said, better to have a full arena in Winnipeg, than a half full arena in XXXXXXX!

 

[LeafErikson]

He was hired by the owners to make them money - he has fulfilled that mandate. And continues to do so as revenues continue to grow.

And he's the right man for the job, as he's proven so now, and in the past. I'm not saying he has to care, his job is to make money for the owners, and he's doing that.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

He was hired by the owners to make them money - he has fulfilled that mandate. And continues to do so as revenues continue to grow.

I'm not so sure revenue has grown recently if you for adjust for inflation and account for the appreciation of the Canadian dollar by 30 cents USD in the last 5 years.

Also, if you add more franchises to the league (say 30 instead of 26) revenue will obviously grow as there are more games played. But there are now 4 more owners that have to share those revenues.

GHOST

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Ok, my mistake. Maybe I was thinking of something to do with expanding it to fit 16 k, but I've heard that number thrown around, in regards to that arena. Regardless, it's a nice building. I don't see anything wrong with a team that only supports a slightly smaller crowd. Like I said, better to have a full arena in Winnipeg, than a half full arena in XXXXXXX!

Why would they continually fill this arena, when they had attendance problems before the Jets left?

 

[Dave is a killer]

MTSC is not 16K. Full cap is 15,003.

hooray for facts & reason

 

[dan1319]

They should have a team in winnepeg because they have an arena

 

[Bear of Bad News]

They should have a team in winnepeg because they have an arena

Sweet! We also need teams in Appleton, Wisconsin, and Bremerton, Washington!

 

[Wetcoaster]

hooray for facts & reason

It is immaterial for the "Bring back the Jets" supporters.

Winnipeg exists in some sort of alternate universe where the financial requirments of running an NHL teams that apply to other cities in North America do not exist.

 

[nomorekids]

Gary Bettman is a businessman, plain and simple. He doesn't care about the inner parts of a sport, the history, etc. If there's a dollar to be made, he'll exploit it. So if there's a dollar to be made in Canada, where it can't be made in the US, he'll go for it.
I'm not saying Bettman has no human factor to his life, I'm sure he's a nice man. But when it comes to the league he's in charge of, I don't think he takes much consideration into the happiness of fans, unless that happiness has the potential to be a success in the marketable scheme of things.

I have news for you. Everyone involved in the NHL...from Bettman down to the owners, GMs, coaches, scouts, trainers, and most of all the players...is a businessman. Until the NHL turns into a not-for-profit league where the players are given a per diem for food and expenses, everyone is a businessperson, and at the end of the day, they want what will generate the most money. Not what will satisfy "the spirit of the game" the most.

 

[Oilers Chick]

Quebec City, and Winnipeg? Should those cities have teams back in the NHL?

Certain NHL franchises south of the border havn't done well, I'm not going to point any fingers at what ones, but some have not. There was a stat put out not too long ago, that 33% of the leagues revenues were generated by the 6 Canadian teams. And that if you included Detroit, and Minnesota, and Buffalo, which draw a lot of their revenue from Canada aswell, which accounts for 44 % of the league revenue.

My question is obviously, based on the lack of success of some NHL franchises in the states, and the numbers that have proven a great part of the league revenue comes from north of the border, do you think that merrits on its own, that the NHL should strongly consider going back to those cities?

First off, where is the facts to back up your claim that Minnesota's revenue is generated by Canadians? You've obviously either never been to Minnesota and/or have no idea how hockey crazy the State of Hockey is. Fact is, Minnesotans love their hockey with a passion and if you don't believe me, go to ANY hockey game up there sometime.

In answer to the thread question posed: definitely on Winnipeg and not sure about Quebec City.

 

[LeafErikson]

Sweet! We also need teams in Appleton, Wisconsin, and Bremerton, Washington!

Agreed, there should be a team in Washington. They should do well, and it would help the western conference solve some if their travel problems.

 

[LeafErikson]

First off, where is the facts to back up your claim that Minnesota's revenue is generated by Canadians? You've obviously either never been to Minnesota and/or have no idea how hockey crazy the State of Hockey is. Fact is, Minnesotans love their hockey with a passion and if you don't believe me, go to ANY hockey game up there sometime.

In answer to the thread question posed: definitely on Winnipeg and not sure about Quebec City.

Holy crap, I'm not saying Minnesota's revenue IS generated by Canadian fans, I'm saying that there is a lot of money put into the team, by Canadian fans that travel down to Minnesota, watch games, buy product, whatever. That's likely true about other american franchises aswell, but Minnesota is relatively close to Canada, and I'm sure it does draw in it's share of Canadian Wild fans. Take it easy bud, I wasn't attacking Minnesota fans at all, I consider them some of the best hockey fans in the states, aswell in all of hockey.
Cheers.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

MTSC is not 16K. Full cap is 15,003.

If 15K now, but there are some spaces that can be utilized to marginally increase capacity if they care to (above the final row of the upper bowl on both the north and south sides of the arena, for example). The luxury suites can accomodate 100s of more in capacity in standing room also. And anyway, any arena can be expanded to whatever size you choose; it's just a question of how much money you are willing to spend. The currently listed capacity of MTS Centre is not a major issue unless you think an NHL city needs to be 20,000 plus capacity arena, which I don't believe would be the ideal size for a city like Winnipeg. 16,000 is realistic especially if a Winnipeg franchise did not give away the league average of over 1000s comp tickets per game.

GHOST

 

[LeafErikson]

I have news for you. Everyone involved in the NHL...from Bettman down to the owners, GMs, coaches, scouts, trainers, and most of all the players...is a businessman. Until the NHL turns into a not-for-profit league where the players are given a per diem for food and expenses, everyone is a businessperson, and at the end of the day, they want what will generate the most money. Not what will satisfy "the spirit of the game" the most.

Thanks for filling me in, for something I already know. Notice the team I cheer for? I think that explains quite well, that I understand that the league is first, and formost a business.
I believe that it makes economical sense to move back to these cities. Explain to me, how it makes sense, econimically, to stay in some of the struggling US markets that exists!

 

[Wetcoaster]

Thanks for filling me in, for something I already know. Notice the team I cheer for? I think that explains quite well, that I understand that the league is first, and formost a business.
I believe that it makes economical sense to move back to these cities. Explain to me, how it makes sense, econimically, to stay in some of the struggling US markets that exists!

Canadian dollar, tax systems, property taxes, incentives, lack of corporate sector, lack of population, lack of an NHL capable arena, demographics, etc. - all those things that have been discussed and anlysed in this forum before. Try the "search" function.

 

[kdb209]

Holy crap, I'm not saying Minnesota's revenue IS generated by Canadian fans, I'm saying that there is a lot of money put into the team, by Canadian fans that travel down to Minnesota, watch games, buy product, whatever. That's likely true about other american franchises aswell, but Minnesota is relatively close to Canada, and I'm sure it does draw in it's share of Canadian Wild fans. Take it easy bud, I wasn't attacking Minnesota fans at all, I consider them some of the best hockey fans in the states, aswell in all of hockey.
Cheers.

I could (maybe) buy this claim for Buffalo or Detroit, but it is rediculous to claim that any significant percentage of Minnesota Wild revenues comes from north of the border.

It is 457 miles from Winnipeg (the closest "large" Canadian city) to Minneapolis/St Paul - a 7+ hr drive through a Minnesota winter.

Or are you expecting these Canadian Wild fans to be spending several times the price of their tickets on airfare/hotel.

Yes, I'm sure that some fans use a Wild game as an excuse to visit the Twin Cities - but the number is an insignificant percentage of the 18K fans in the Xcel Center and contribute a neglible amount to the Wild's revenues.