Should we spend a few assets to move Horton? (like Chicago did Hossa)

[Barilko14]

I thought the whole point was as long a Horton isn’t ltir. Then the Matthews bonuses don’t count against next year?

Is it:

79.5-5.3 = 74.2 we can spend and bonuses don’t count against next year or

79.5-5.3-potential ofverage?

Need to leave room for the bonus overages, otherwise they get carried forward to next year, and pretty well defeats the purpose of not using LTIR this year.

 

[Legion34]

Need to leave room for the bonus overages, otherwise they get carried forward to next year, and pretty well defeats the purpose of not using LTIR this year.

So then what is the point of the LTIR? What am I missing? If putting Horton on LTIR pushes bonuses to next year...... shouldn’t keeping him on the roster stop that?

Might as well just use it then?

 

[IBeL34f]

So then what is the point of the LTIR? What am I missing? If putting Horton on LTIR pushes bonuses to next year...... shouldn’t keeping him on the roster stop that?

Might as well just use it then?

My understanding is that it only stops the bonus overages from being pushed to next year if we allow room for bonus overages under our cap this year.
So we'd basically have ~$9M in dead cap space this year, between Horton and the bonuses, in order to make sure we can fit everybody in next year (at which time Horton can once again be put on LTIR).

 

[Legion34]

My understanding is that it only stops the bonus overages from being pushed to next year if we allow room for bonus overages under our cap this year.
So we'd basically have ~$9M in dead cap space this year, between Horton and the bonuses, in order to make sure we can fit everybody in next year (at which time Horton can once again be put on LTIR).

But then it doesn’t matter if we put Horton on the LTIR? Odd rule

We can either spend 79.5 plus 5.3 and the bonuses go next year so basically 85 million.

Or we Can spend 79.5 minus 5.3 and the bonuses go next year so basically 74 million.

Or we can spend 79.5- Horton-bonuses so 71 million?

That’s a 15 million swing to avoid 4 in overages. I don’t think that makes sense

 

[PuckMagi]

If I was rich, I would totally get a Horton jersey for the lolz.

 

[IBeL34f]

But then it doesn’t matter if we put Horton on the LTIR? Odd rule

We can either spend 79.5 plus 5.3 and the bonuses go next year so basically 85 million.

Or we Can spend 79.5 minus 5.3 and the bonuses go next year so basically 74 million.

Or we can spend 79.5- Horton-bonuses so 71 million?

That’s a 15 million swing to avoid 4 in overages. I don’t think that makes sense

It's because LTIR can't be used to cover bonuses. If we're too close to the cap, without accounting for Horton's contract, then the bonuses become overages and are rolled over to the next year.

With the upcoming raises to Matthews and Marner putting a severe crunch on our cap space next year, it actually makes tons of sense to take the hit now rather than later.

 

[Damisoph]

The $14.7+ million of cap space already accounts for Horton's $5.3M

Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Legion34]

It's because LTIR can't be used to cover bonuses. If we're too close to the cap, without accounting for Horton's contract, then the bonuses become overages and are rolled over to the next year.

With the upcoming raises to Matthews and Marner putting a severe crunch on our cap space next year, it actually makes tons of sense to take the hit now rather than later.

I agree with taking the hit this year. I just could have sworn that the whole point of keeping Horton on the cap this year was to make sure that the bonuses don’t count.

Seems like double jeopardy. If there were no bonuses we could replace him with an equal. Salary with no cost. But we don’t replace him and still get done with bonus overages for next year?

Why can’t we replace Horton and then leave space for overages?

Ie. 79.5-3.7 for overages gives basically 75 to work with..... but replace Horton and good??

If this is how it is, it’s really dumb.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

The $14.7+ million of cap space already accounts for Horton's $5.3M

Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

That's true.

However, we won't be that far off from using the approximately 14.7M though.

Capfriendly only has a 19 man roster so add 4 cheaper players. Say 4 players x 900K each =3.6M
+ Nylander contract at roughly 7M
+ 3.7M in potential bonuses we want to cover
Total of: 14.3M

 

[Barilko14]

I agree with taking the hit this year. I just could have sworn that the whole point of keeping Horton on the cap this year was to make sure that the bonuses don’t count.

Seems like double jeopardy. If there were no bonuses we could replace him with an equal. Salary with no cost. But we don’t replace him and still get done with bonus overages for next year?

Why can’t we replace Horton and then leave space for overages?

Ie. 79.5-3.7 for overages gives basically 75 to work with..... but replace Horton and good??

If this is how it is, it’s really dumb.

You cannot throw a player on LTIR unless you are up to the cap.

 

[Americanadian]

I'm pretty sure that $14.7m in cap space already counts Horton's contract

You’re correct.

 

[Sypher04]

The $14.7+ million of cap space already accounts for Horton's $5.3M

Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Yeah, the 5.3 is already counted.

Thing is, Nylander is likely gonna come in somewhere between 6.5m-7.0m which is about half the space.

Matthews carries a performance bonus of up to $2,850,000
Marner carries a performance bonus of up to $850,000

Further guys like Lindholm, Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman all potential for up to $850,000 in performance bonus each. Now odds are only maybe 2 of these guys can make the roster at all, and of that, I don't think we need to worry too much.

If we assume that Matthews/Marner hit most of their bonuses that's like 3.7m

It just doesn't leave us with much to maneuver for trade if something comes up, although admittedly it's a couple million more than I originally was thinking which is nice.

 

[Leafsguard]

So as I understand the LTIR there are two categories the one that Horton is on which I think is a Physically Unable to to play (career) that $$$ amount essentially is the amount that they can over spend in the offseason. Then there is another category that Lupal fell into last season which would be Physically Unable to play (season-to-season) that version the cap hit comes off as soon as the puck drops on opening night.

 

[deletethis]

With the expansion draft probably coming in the summer of 2020, a trade next summer of an asset likely to be lost in that expansion draft with the last year of the Horton contract for a protectable asset(s) seems to make the most sense. That is unless Dubas can find a way to dump the contract as a throw in at the 2018-19 trade deadline: acquire a modest veteran defenseman on an expiring contract for the Leafs' 1st and the Horton contract (assuming the Leafs are playoff bound).

 

[roosterman]

Yeah, the 5.3 is already counted.

Thing is, Nylander is likely gonna come in somewhere between 6.5m-7.0m which is about half the space.

Matthews carries a performance bonus of up to $2,850,000
Marner carries a performance bonus of up to $850,000

Further guys like Lindholm, Ozhiganov, Rosen, Borgman all potential for up to $850,000 in performance bonus each. Now odds are only maybe 2 of these guys can make the roster at all, and of that, I don't think we need to worry too much.

If we assume that Matthews/Marner hit most of their bonuses that's like 3.7m

It just doesn't leave us with much to maneuver for trade if something comes up, although admittedly it's a couple million more than I originally was thinking which is nice.

Does anyone know what targets Matthews and Marner have to reach to get these bonus?

 

[BertCorbeau]

I don’t think it’s necessary to move him and lose an asset.

But at least we know Chayka will take him, he’ll take any contract like this.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I think he's ours for good.

There is likely other work arounds for this. We have Pridham and Gilman. I bet they have something up their sleeve we didn't even think about.

Like the 10% overage during the off-season until you are able to place him on LTIR in-season?

Plus didn’t Lou put Lupul on LTIR in the off-season somehow?

 

[as Pure as Evil]

we will just eat the remaining years of his salary we can ltir him in the summer and at the start of camp so it really doesn't effect us besides the roster spot.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The only teams that could take a contract like Horton's contract are Montreal and New York Rangers, it would cost a couple assets though.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Don't put him on LTIR this year and don't spend near the cap to ensure there is enough money left over to cover bonuses.

Do put him on LTIR next year. There shouldn't be much worry of bonuses. 400K for Liljegren. Don't think there is that much else. (and I think this is the reason Sandin's ELC has no performance bonuses - and Dubas will be pretty rigid going forward)

I don't see the benefit in trading assets to get rid of his contract at this point - especially as it will be very expensive to do so.

its am34 and marners last elc year, we have to spend to the cap and go for it this year.

 

[MR4]

I forgot Horton isn't insured, which honestly changes everything.

Sadly, we've got like 0 cap space after Nylander signs then. Anything we do is gonna have to be a hockey trade.

Pretty sure mirtle or someone said if we sign Nylander at 6.25 we can expect ~3.5M in usable cap space, so subtract the difference of what Nylander actually gets

its am34 and marners last elc year, we have to spend to the cap and go for it this year.

You do realize not spending to the cap is to ensure we don't have money carrying over into next year so we can actually afford keeping AM & MM for the next year and several after? Or is next year sooo worth it that we should just not give a f*** about the future

 

[diceman934]

I don’t think it’s necessary to move him and lose an asset.

But at least we know Chayka will take him, he’ll take any contract like this.

It is uninsured so why would he take it?

 

[justafan22]

As has been said here, only the rangers and habs are teams that can take on that money + aren't competing for a cup right now. Maybe bracco + 2nd + horton for like a conditional 6th

 

[biotk]

its am34 and marners last elc year, we have to spend to the cap and go for it this year.

As MR4 said - spending to the cap would screw the Leafs over big time the following season. The Leafs' management has to be very meticulously work things out for the next several years. They appear to be doing that under Dubas - by not adding UFAs beyond Tavares, and by not giving Sandin a contract with bonuses. The Leafs are walking a tightrope. Spending to the cap this year is the equivalent of falling off without a net.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

No, why?