Should we explore trading Mantha for a young promising defenseman?

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Frk It, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. DetroitRed

    DetroitRed Crashes the Crease

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Michigan
    In a sense, they can afford to be patient, because there is no quick fix that will help them get competitive again in the short-term (I think patience is one of the keys to rebuilding anyway). On the other hand, they will have to start their turnaround somewhere. So, it's good to explore all the options.

    My problem with the idea is that I doubt you get quite as much back in a defender as you give in a forward. So unless that proves not to be true, it stands to reason that there are better ways (like the draft and free-agency) to address the need for defensive improvement . The one exception would be if they had a surplus of offense to trade away, which they clearly don't.

    In the absence of a surplus of offense or an amazing trade situation, the questions become contracting players in the most responsible way, making the right choices at the draft, and coaching. But that's a digression.
     
  2. Inspiration

    Inspiration Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Anthony Mantha (from Corsica):

    5v5 Shot Attempts per 60:

    18-19: 13.31
    17-18: 13.72
    16-17: 13.37

    5v5 CF% / xGF%

    18-19: 56.37% / 55.72%
    17-18: 51.55% / 52.55%
    16-17: 53.35% / 53.48%

    So why do his numbers look so terrible? Well, funny you should ask...

    5v5 Detroit shooting % / save % when Mantha is on the ice:

    18-19: 2.53% / 85.94%
    17-18: 8.51% / 92.75%
    16-17: 9.55% / 92.26%

    Don't trade a guy because he is getting unlucky. This is how bad teams stay bad.
     
    ricky0034 and DATSOMATIC13 like this.
  3. Frk It

    Frk It From Z to Z

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    27,814
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Right... 1 trade does not set the market. It is a spectrum.
     
  4. RedWingzz

    RedWingzz "En dernière pour Lafrenière!!"

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    5,321
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    Trophy Points:
    150
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I think it's more than just him being "unlucky". He does not look like he cares out there. He takes entire games off. I don't know how an NHL player would have the mindset of not giving their all every-time they're on the ice, but when I watch Mantha I see a guy who doesn't seem to care. He lacks passion, and seems content with being mediocre. It's unfortunate because when he is moving his feet, and playing with passion, he can go absolute beast mode.
     
  5. Inspiration

    Inspiration Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Funny how guys seem to subjectively begin "looking" bad right around the time they have a unlucky shooting percentage stretch. Is it possible that he's the same guy he always has been but your opinion is being colored by the fluky results? It feel like these are the exact conversations we were having about Johan Franzen years ago: when the puck wasn't going in for stretches everyone (including myself) complained about his floating, yet at the end of the year no one complained when he finished with his usual 25-30 goals.
     
  6. The Joe Dough

    The Joe Dough Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2017
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Exactly. Before we start trading top 6 forwards, let’s see what a new system can do. I really don’t get the love obsession with Blashill or why the love to keep him through the year, beyond. It’s obviously not working and now we have a board full of hypothetical trades for one of our better players.
     
  7. Steve Yzerlland

    Steve Yzerlland Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    3,307
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    90
    At this point he is worth Brett Lebda.So no.
     
    Goalie guy and TheMule93 like this.
  8. lilidk

    lilidk Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Mantha potential star doesn't play like one . Its mental , he needs different coach, different approach , so does AA
     
  9. tsweeney

    tsweeney Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,360
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Trophy Points:
    109
    No, they need to get their heads out of their ass. The games were AA does this and skates hard? He looks like one of the best players on the ice. The games where he gets in his own head and for lack of a better way of saying it "goes rogue", he looks awful and then gets benched for a game or two.

    There is no way that Blashill's system is so bad that it ruins players when Jon Cooper runs the exact same system in Tampa and they're on the verge of a Cup almost annually.

    People should stop giving guys like Mantha and AA a pass for coasting. For the talent both of them have, they should be able to do stuff even with bad wings or in Mantha's case a bad C.

    So, I agree they need a different approach. I don't think that's a Jeff Blashill specific problem or one that is solved by getting rid of him. Maybe if you got Torts and he went red-ass on them, they'd respond or go Bylsma and his player-friendly route would reach them. But for those two especially, it's them, it's them, it's them. And until you learn to say that it's them, they'll always be 35-40 point forwards who are passengers.
     
  10. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    12,518
    Likes Received:
    2,800
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Gender:
    Male
    No point in trading a young player on a cheap contract.
     
  11. tsweeney

    tsweeney Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,360
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Trophy Points:
    109
    If I can get Jacob Trouba for him plus something reasonable, I do it in a millisecond.
     
  12. HisNoodliness

    HisNoodliness Seider's a big reach? He does have a 6'8 wingspan

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,484
    Likes Received:
    567
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Occupation:
    Physicist
    Location:
    Toronto
    For what it's worth I think Tampa would have a couple of cups already if not for Cooper. His line combinations and ice time distributions are frequently awful, and he's shown no ability to adapt his approach when things go poorly. I don't think either is a good coach, and Cooper's success in Tampa shouldn't really give credit to Blashill.
     
  13. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    7,057
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Virologist/Immunologist
    Location:
    Desert USA
    Except defensemen take a long time to develop unless they are slam dunks. If Detroit gets a top 5 pick, it will be likely most of their forward core will be set. Drafting a d-man in the later rounds or years down the road who won't be in the NHL until 2022 or later isn't going to go well with a forward core that is going to be ready to play meaningful games in 2020.
     
  14. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    12,518
    Likes Received:
    2,800
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Gender:
    Male
    You’re not getting Trouba for him.
     
  15. MtlBoxFan

    MtlBoxFan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    61
    And who is going to trade a slam dunk defenseman to Detroit? You'll only get a young defenseman worth developing through the draft. Hate to say it, but Detroit probably has to suck until 2020.
     
  16. Steve Yzerlland

    Steve Yzerlland Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    3,307
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    90
    Trouba +? You're lucky if we only give up Mantha without adding more for him.
     
    Snuggs likes this.
  17. Ezekial

    Ezekial Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    12,661
    Likes Received:
    3,972
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Location:
    Chicago
    The "him" was Mantha.

    Still don't see us trading Mantha for Trouba.
     
  18. WingsMike

    WingsMike Registered Man

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Trouba is worth a LOT more than Mantha. I think you misread tsweeney.
     
  19. Steve Yzerlland

    Steve Yzerlland Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    3,307
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    90
    Oh ok.
     
  20. Henkka

    Henkka Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Messages:
    18,829
    Likes Received:
    2,436
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    Trouba could be a lot more valuable than Mantha, but if he is 100% sure gonna leave Winnipeg, it will be a losing trade for Jets anyways. That could push his value down so much, that getting Mantha would be somewhat "good loss" in their eyes.

    You have to think the market too. Value doesn't go 1-on-1 on this kind of cases, where player wants out or threatens to walk free as UFA.

    Like Karlsson was traded for peanuts. Same case.
     
  21. Heaton

    Heaton Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    22,432
    Likes Received:
    748
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    Rochester, MI
    Depends how good the GM is. Marty St. Louis was 100% only going to the Rangers and Yzerman got a ton of value.
     
  22. Dotter

    Dotter life feels like a test I didn’t study for

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,855
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spring Hill, TN
    Home Page:
    Mantha should be expandable if Zadina becomes better. RAS will be the net font guy... so really, Mantha doesn't bring anything uniquely better to the table than we already have. Mantha is a floater and a streaky goal scorer (poor man's Franzen). He might peak at 35 goals and be a consistent 25/30 goal guy.

    I don't foresee him ever having the trade value many here hope.
     
  23. lilidk

    lilidk Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    124
    One day something will click in his head, until then just keep him as 3rd liner , he isn't overpaid like Aby
     
  24. dragonballgtz

    dragonballgtz Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    297
    Trophy Points:
    94
    With 29 games to go and the way Mantha has played this season, should the Wings looks to move him in the off-season? Larkin took a huge step this year, AA seems to have matured more, while Mantha is still... Mantha. If he wasn't hurt he might have hit 25+ goals this year but it still seems like has hasn't taken a step forward like the other two young guns have.
     
  25. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    7,057
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Occupation:
    Virologist/Immunologist
    Location:
    Desert USA
    No, he's at the lowest point of his value.
     
    TheMule93 likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"