Line Combos: Should we break up our 1st line?

Should we break our 1st line?


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    28

Fabiobest

Italian Florida Man
Feb 4, 2017
8,639
4,370
Turin, Italy
The more I read everyone's post, the less I'm convinced of my possible choice lol. Hopefully this means all of the option can work at the different levels, one way or another...


If the coach can make a good in-game adjustment if neeeded then that'd be all good.
Yes, I agree with you.
But I think that our basic lines should not change. It's more important to step up the quality of Stamkos, Kucherov and Miller games. And I don't think their problems are the lines. :) :)
 
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HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,452
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Yes, I agree with you.
But I think that our basic lines should not change. It's more important to step up the quality of Stamkos, Kucherov and Miller games. And I don't think their problems are the lines. :) :)

How do you just step up their quality of play? They are getting plenty of prime ice time in a lot of offensive situations that they are just wasting. The only way to shake them from their slump is a demotion. Ovechkin has been banished to the lower lines many times in his career and usually responds with a big game. Stamkos constantly gets a pass for his crap play. I also don't think Cooper has the stones to demote Stamkos either. We are going to force feed this guy prime ice time and he's not going to step up. We've seen it from him in the past, I just don't think he has the killer instinct or desire to dominate when needed. His shot totals have gone down each game. How can you be one of the best goal scorers and take 1 shot on net all game? He did score but was insanely weak, you would think that would get him going to start letting it RIP but he did nothing the next 19 minutes. He can be on the top PP but we shouldn't be getting the most ice time, most offensive zone starts or any of that, he needs to earn it which he hasn't.
 

Fabiobest

Italian Florida Man
Feb 4, 2017
8,639
4,370
Turin, Italy
How do you just step up their quality of play? They are getting plenty of prime ice time in a lot of offensive situations that they are just wasting. The only way to shake them from their slump is a demotion. Ovechkin has been banished to the lower lines many times in his career and usually responds with a big game. Stamkos constantly gets a pass for his crap play. I also don't think Cooper has the stones to demote Stamkos either. We are going to force feed this guy prime ice time and he's not going to step up. We've seen it from him in the past, I just don't think he has the killer instinct or desire to dominate when needed. His shot totals have gone down each game. How can you be one of the best goal scorers and take 1 shot on net all game? He did score but was insanely weak, you would think that would get him going to start letting it RIP but he did nothing the next 19 minutes. He can be on the top PP but we shouldn't be getting the most ice time, most offensive zone starts or any of that, he needs to earn it which he hasn't.
Yesterday Stamkos was very awful, I agree. Probably he's not at 100% cause the injury of the last week of the regular.
I don't know, I'm making some hp. But I agree with you that, maybe, Stammer has a lack of personality, cause also in the 2015 playoffs, the Triplets were more important than Steven to gain the Finals.
If he's not the killer instinct, you can put him also in the 4th line, but the situation won't change. And so I've said that.
If the problem is Stamkos that is playing bad, you can shuffle the lines, imho. But if the problem is his "lack of personality", imho, it's no sense to change the other lines that works well.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,772
I think they just need to be selfish. Stop always looking for that cross ice pass. Stop trying to hit the tic tac toe.

Just shoot. Two of the best shooters in the league and they fall all over themselves to defer to someone else. It's infuriating.

If I'm Cooper, I make it clear that anyone passing on an open look to make another pass is going to ride the 4th line for a few shifts.

I get that the playoffs aren't really the place to prove a point, but can you imagine this team if they would shoot even like 50% of that they choose to cross ice?

Coop be like:

IZ9qOAJ.gif
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
28,955
17,898
Everytime Stamkos plays bad it always "could it be x injury from x time ago", the guys not injured he just sucks when he's playing trying to play out of his element. He's an inconsistent puck carrier and distributor he should be limited on how much of that he does, 90% of Stamkos's career is him being invisisble, finding a lane and shooting. I'm not sure there's a player in the league who tries more to be something they're not. It's been said countless times since his first injury, guy needs to just simpify his game.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,772
Everytime Stamkos plays bad it always "could it be x injury from x time ago", the guys not injured he just sucks when he's playing trying to play out of his element. He's an inconsistent puck carrier and distributor he should be limited on how much of that he does, 90% of Stamkos's career is him being invisisble, finding a lane and shooting. I'm not sure there's a player in the league who tries more to be something they're not. It's been said countless times since his first injury, guy needs to just simpify his game.
Exactly. He's not your Tavares, Giroux, Crosby or whatever type of player who will dangle thru opposing defensemen to feed the perfect cross ice pass to his linemates. He's the trigger man who needs guys to feed him the rubber disk. He needs to go back to that, put the invisibility cloak on, reappear on the left faceoff circle and fire that thing with 150mph top shelf like back in the good days. Simplify. Ironically his defensive game (you see it's always when he does not have the puck) has gotten a lot better. He's taking shifts on the PK and doesn't look half bad at it. His faceoff numbers have become pretty good. He just needs to focus on shooting again and less about "tic tac toe" plays and drop passes.

In that sense I think Kucherov has had a bad influence on him. They both are looking way too much to make the pretty play instead of the simple but effective play. They should take notes from the 2nd and 3rd line. Dump it in, dig it out, crash the net. With Miller, Killer or Palat on LW they have lots of guys capable of doing the dirty work along the boards and behind the net for #86 and #91. Capitalize on that.
 
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Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
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Exactly. He's not your Tavares, Giroux, Crosby or whatever type of player who will dangle thru opposing defensemen to feed the perfect cross ice pass to his linemates. He's the trigger man who needs guys to feed him the rubber disk. He needs to go back to that, put the invisibility cloak on, reappear on the left faceoff circle and fire that thing with 150mph top shelf like back in the good days. Simplify. Ironically his defensive game (you see it's always when he does not have the puck) has gotten a lot better. He's taking shifts on the PK and doesn't look half bad at it. His faceoff numbers have become pretty good. He just needs to focus on shooting again and less about "tic tac toe" plays and drop passes.

Not sure there's another player in the league who's less self aware of their abilities than Stamkos since he had those 17 games in 2013. The 2012, 60 goal Stamkos was the peak of him playing within his skillset, he didn't do stupid shit like he does every other game or try to thread a needle every PP. Just shot pucks, kept to one timers on the PP and crashed the net with his strength, and still single handedly won us a ton of games without having to be danglemaster. He's had glimpses where he's all round beast (early 2013, 2016) but spends so much time failing trying to get to that point again it's almost counter productive as it results in more games spent in limbo.

He had 38 points in 19 games to start the year and got it in his head he was this elite playmaker all of a sudden, which resulted in finishing the next 58 games with 48 points, well under PPG and the worst goal scoring season from him since his rookie season, guy spent the entire year thinking he was better off passing than shooting, yet his most common linemate Kucherov actually scored less goals this year with "playmaking Stamkos" than he did by himself last year.
 
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LonLon Lei

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
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I like how you guys talk about the captain. Sensed a lot of humor with love derived from the objectivity yet with a taste of sadness that the reality brings to it.
You know, I really hope/wish he listens/listened...
 
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LonLon Lei

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,187
950
So it was not us but them who made the move. They focused their D on the Point line and that lead our 1st line to the glory.
Curious to see if they will do the same for the next game.

Meanwhile, some of us are getting the impression that this is more about finding the stray cat Stammer home than figuring out the right combo (with the most of our players doing just fine)
 

Master P

Registered User
Mar 31, 2016
19,515
26,012
Florida
I'm not too worried about the lines when we are at home since we are able to get the matchups we want. The first two games we were all over them.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,772
God that pass on the PP that he just telegraphed that led to a turnover... I was so pissed.
Kuch’s failed drop pass leading to an odd man rush the other way was terrible too. They were much better last game, yes, but they’re still trying to be cute and failing. Cut that crap in the playoffs at least.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,607
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Kuch’s failed drop pass leading to an odd man rush the other way was terrible too. They were much better last game, yes, but they’re still trying to be cute and failing. Cut that crap in the playoffs at least.
Especially with Kuch, there's a bit of "yeah that was a bad play BUT do you really want to take that creativity out of his game." Kucherov just has that level of creativity, and while it isn't going to work all the time and it can lead to chances the other way, it's the type of thing you just have to live with when you have a player like that.

Stamkos is different. Stamkos is best when he's playing meat and potatoes, North-South, trigger-happy hockey. He works well *with* creative players when he just acts like a turret rather than trying to match them. But Stamkos has never been one for the highlight reel pass (but see - one exception is the one-timer pass but that feeds off of his shooting threat rather than being separate from his shooting), and he needs to stop pretending he is. @Sky04 nailed it - never have I recalled a player that is so unaware of both his strengths and weaknesses.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
46,842
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NB
Yeah, when Kuch is instrumental in roughly every other goal we score, you have to give him a pass pretty much everything else.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,772
Especially with Kuch, there's a bit of "yeah that was a bad play BUT do you really want to take that creativity out of his game." Kucherov just has that level of creativity, and while it isn't going to work all the time and it can lead to chances the other way, it's the type of thing you just have to live with when you have a player like that.

Stamkos is different. Stamkos is best when he's playing meat and potatoes, North-South, trigger-happy hockey. He works well *with* creative players when he just acts like a turret rather than trying to match them. But Stamkos has never been one for the highlight reel pass (but see - one exception is the one-timer pass but that feeds off of his shooting threat rather than being separate from his shooting), and he needs to stop pretending he is. @Sky04 nailed it - never have I recalled a player that is so unaware of both his strengths and weaknesses.
Normally I would agree regarding Kucherov but he really shouldn’t be pulling high risk stuff like that in a 2-1 game in a 2-1 series on away ice. He could’ve taken two more steps and play it deep or even cross ice but he caught his own teammates off guard with the drop pass and the Devils took advantage of it. If they weren’t that terrible on the finish except for Hall this could’ve turned the game especially with Peel doing everything he could to sabotage the game in their favor.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,452
3,681
I'm glad I didn't vote yes before yesterday's game.

Why? That could've been Sustr between Millee and Kucherov with the same effect. Stamkos rode shotgun to those two, he really didn't do anything to stand out, he also sucked so bad on the dot that Miller had to take the draws after awhile. He got an assist by just taking a pass and immediately giving it someone who knew what to do with it.
 

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
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11,354
Tampa: NHL's Newest Dynasty
Why? That could've been Sustr between Millee and Kucherov with the same effect. Stamkos rode shotgun to those two, he really didn't do anything to stand out, he also sucked so bad on the dot that Miller had to take the draws after awhile. He got an assist by just taking a pass and immediately giving it someone who knew what to do with it.

Can't disagree but who are we going to swap with, Paquette?
 

Bolt 45

Registered User
Oct 19, 2015
1,598
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Why? That could've been Sustr between Millee and Kucherov with the same effect. Stamkos rode shotgun to those two, he really didn't do anything to stand out, he also sucked so bad on the dot that Miller had to take the draws after awhile. He got an assist by just taking a pass and immediately giving it someone who knew what to do with it.
Lol. This is a ruthlessly accurate assessment. I'm 100% convinced that wearing the 'C' seriously messes with his head, especially in the playoffs.

Edit: I will say that he's generally been solid defensively, and probably more reliable/consistent than either Miller or Kuch.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
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Stamkos is the one that needs moved from the top line the way he has been playing as of late has been brutally bad.

The other three lines are playing really well, more often than not anyway, and both Kuch and Miller had exceptional games in Game 4. Can't really shake things up just because one guy isn't playing up to his abilities.

Stamkos's big playoff performances have been few and far between. I think we just have to accept it, but even so, he attracts a lot of attention away from some of our better performers.
 
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Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
28,955
17,898
You know you're reaching when you're bringing up Stamkos's "defense" which has been nothing special and something every center should be doing anyways.
 

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